Mad Max and Shadow of Mordor delisted for Linux and macOS on Steam

Linux is an OS made for people who want power. If one doesn't want power, one shouldn't be playing with it.

This piece got me thinking... Why is Valve still supporting Linux, at this point, if it all comes to this?

It's an additional market. As small as it might be. Just because we are not the average user, it does not mean that we do not play games.
Plus it gives them an edge when interacting with Microsoft. So they can keep them in check.

By the way, Proton is not an official flag for supporting titles on Linux. It's just that tool that gives users the option to play games via WINE with a single click (or at least that's what they claim).
And unless the publishers keep track for who play via Proton, one is possibly counted as yet another Windows user.

Valve noted a long time ago that games played using Proton count as a Linux player, not a Windows one.

Is it just me? I feel like Steam's Linux gaming is gradually falling into a chaotic mess. Linux native ports that suddenly stop being supported... Native ports that run worse than the windows version run through proton... Windows games run only through proton... I have 2 exemples of games that got a gold rating on protondb, but just won't run adequately: Rage 2 that just keeps on crashing every 5 mins, no matter the tweaks I try and Star Wars: Jedi Fallen Order, that becomes a slide show when you hit the start button... Why gold?! These 2 should get a silver rating max, imo...

I'm beginning to doubt all I read about Linux games that are supposedly running like champs. I don't know what to believe anymore. It's just getting more confusing than anything else.

I bought the Resident Evil remake yesterday, which has Platinum rating on ProtonDB

The page is full of people reporting perfect compatibility IF you install windows binaries with Winetricks and Protontricks, which may require 10+ permission changes.

That, to me, is not Platinum. It's Silver at best. As it was, the fixes completely failed and I got a refund. ProtonDB is a disaster area and needs fixing *incredibly badly*

That's exactly why I say that Valve must clean the mess that it (Protondb) became. It's their tech... It should be their support (but it doesn't mean excluding the help of the community). Imo, there should be a Protondb similar tool that is maintained by Valve and the whitelist should be expanded because there is a lot of games that are really at Platinum level. It's just that at this time, Protondb is poluted by way too much "false positives" and that makes it completely unreliable.

By the way, Proton is not an official flag for supporting titles on Linux. It's just that tool that gives users the option to play games via WINE with a single click (or at least that's what they claim).

You seem to forget about Steam's Whitelist which is Windows games officially supported on Linux. These games are supported ootb without having to click the "Proton support on all Windows titles".

https://steamdb.info/app/891390/

Just remembered... Liam? How is going your tests on GoL's take for a Proton compatibility list?


Last edited by Mohandevir on 5 January 2021 at 6:29 pm UTC

Linux is an OS made for people who want power. If one doesn't want power, one shouldn't be playing with it.

This piece got me thinking... Why is Valve still supporting Linux, at this point, if it all comes to this?

Because their bribery deal with Microsoft must be continually renewed, and the threat of Linux must remain to keep the monopoly stronghold money flowing.

I'm sure I must have known something about this, but I've lost track. What deal?

I think he is referring to Linux being a leverage to prevent Microsoft from locking Windows to the Windows store only, like they wanted to do with Win8, back then.


Last edited by Mohandevir on 5 January 2021 at 4:34 pm UTC

Speaking from harsh experience, Shadow Of Mordor is no great loss. The Linux version was so bad I never got beyond the menu screen, while it was completely flawless - including all online elements - under Glorious Eggroll. While I'm still more likely to buy a game if it offers a Linux version, I generally expect to play under Proton.

Add me as another that played through it back in the fall of 2017...

I strongly suspect there are a load of games Feral got working really nicely on Linux a few years back, then did zero maintenance. The games (and Steam itself) may have been updated, but the Feral ports have not. The result is previously flawless experiences now a complete mess.
Since Proton is being actively worked on by a surprisingly dedicated team, with Frogging and Eggroll doing amazing work in parallel, it's not overly surprising that they're taking over.

That said I had 100% positive experienced with Tomb Raider

It's probably important to remember that the way the gaming industry works, unless you're running an MMO or long term service-based game (APEX, Fortnite, etc), most of the money made is within the first few months of release of a game and/or ports. Once that is done, updates are only provided until the cost of providing updates outweighs the money coming in from said games. It's one of the big reasons Windows and Steam are popular for gaming - backwards compatibility is kept by keeping/including old libraries so old games (and software) can keep running.

Which is very different from the tech/software industry (especially the web) where consistent updates are important for security and competitive reasons.

Linux is an OS made for people who want power. If one doesn't want power, one shouldn't be playing with it.

This piece got me thinking... Why is Valve still supporting Linux, at this point, if it all comes to this?

Because their bribery deal with Microsoft must be continually renewed, and the threat of Linux must remain to keep the monopoly stronghold money flowing.

I'm sure I must have known something about this, but I've lost track. What deal?

I think he is referring to Linux being a leverage to prevent Microsoft from locking Windows to the Windows store only, like they wanted to do with Win8, back then.

I don't think that counts as a deal, let alone bribery. "Back off, I'm packing" is not a bribe.

And unless the publishers keep track for who play via Proton, one is possibly counted as yet another Windows user.

I'm 90% sure Proton plays are counted as Linux ones. Probably read that here in an article.

Yup. Steam considers Proton Linux. This has indeed been mentioned a fair number of times on GoL.

That's exactly why I say that Valve must clean the mess that it (Protondb) became. It's their tech... It should be their support (but it doesn't mean excluding the help of the community). Imo, there should be a Protondb similar tool that is maintained by Valve and the whitelist should be expanded because there is a lot of games that are really at Platinum level. It's just that at this time, Protondb is poluted by way too much "false positives" and that makes it completely unreliable.

ProtonDB is not a Valve site, it’s a community site created and filled by enthusiastic reporters. It’s stated like this on the footer of the ProtonDB site. Only the Proton GitHub project is managed by Valve employees.

Is it just me? I feel like Steam's Linux gaming is gradually falling into a chaotic mess. Linux native ports that suddenly stop being supported... Native ports that run worse than the windows version run through proton... Windows games run only through proton... I have 2 exemples of games that got a gold rating on protondb, but just won't run adequately: Rage 2 that just keeps on crashing every 5 mins, no matter the tweaks I try and Star Wars: Jedi Fallen Order, that becomes a slide show when you hit the start button... Why gold?! These 2 should get a silver rating max, imo...
.

In my opinion, there are a lot of variables affecting the quality of the game i Proton. For example, I completed the "Star Wars: Jedi Fallen Order" without any problems, the performance was very good. In my opinion, gold or platinum. However, that doesn't mean it will work as well on your configuration.

Is it just me? I feel like Steam's Linux gaming is gradually falling into a chaotic mess. Linux native ports that suddenly stop being supported... Native ports that run worse than the windows version run through proton... Windows games run only through proton... I have 2 exemples of games that got a gold rating on protondb, but just won't run adequately: Rage 2 that just keeps on crashing every 5 mins, no matter the tweaks I try and Star Wars: Jedi Fallen Order, that becomes a slide show when you hit the start button... Why gold?! These 2 should get a silver rating max, imo...
.

In my opinion, there are a lot of variables affecting the quality of the game i Proton. For example, I completed the "Star Wars: Jedi Fallen Order" without any problems, the performance was very good. In my opinion, gold or platinum. However, that doesn't mean it will work as well on your configuration.

This. I think people somehow forget that as cool as Proton is, Valve still targets the most common desktop distros and, in reality, a different Linux distro IS very much a different Operating System as the OS is more than just the underlying kernel (not to mention some distro kernels have specific optimizations that aren't implemented in other distro kernels for whatever reason). In all honesty, chances are the further you get away from one of the "core" (popular) Desktop-focused distros, the less likely it's been tested on that distro. So, in most cases, Ubuntu, Pop!_OS, Mint, Elementary, Fedora, Manjaro, and Arch are probably OK. Beyond that, it probably depends.

Add in the fact that, for some reason, there are a lot of Linux users that want their desktop to be configured a specific way and depending on what they do and how they do it, it may not always be compatible with what Steam, Proton, WINE, etc expect causing issues. Not to mention the obvious Hardware issues that occasionally show up.

ProtonDB is by far the most useful tool around.
This basically tells me which game is a go/no go before I actually buy it. Keep in mind it's actually crowd-sourced, meaning people like you and me, tech savy or not, new to Linux or not are contributing so we can all benefit from it.


By switching to Linux you should have been warned it wasn't an easy way, i.e games are not made for us and it's a miracle already we get them working.
So instead of whining reports are misleading, here's how you use ProtonDB:
1) Check recent reports, wine evolves constantly and given its purpose and wide application range, there will always be regressions;
2) Check for positive reports with the hardware as you have, sometimes just having a given model of GPU or whatev doesn't help
3) Match the proton version of the positive report matching your hardware, as I mentioned sometimes we have new features and smoother support, sometimes we get regressions.

This works 90% of the time.
For the other 10%, try proton experimental branch, try proton tricks, try eggroll version.
It's just a bunch of clicks and you don't even have to get your hands dirty.


I'd like to mention additional details, if eggroll works better and "Valve doesn't seem to care putting as many useful fixes" it's because eggroll embeds copied windows DLL and stuff that would infringe on the Proton licence, eggroll build faces cease and desist anytime from now but hopefully we're such a small market, corpo sharks don't seem to care about just yet.

Another thing, "Valve" needs to sort their shit for Linux".
No, Valve developers actively working on Linux are just a very few, it's definitely not the company as a whole, just check the announcements and commits, these are always the same 4 or 5 people top, and they're already making wonders given how few they actually are.
They don't freakin have time to sort and curate your steam library as you wrongfully setup your distro.


Finally, icing on the cake, just stop whining already and come help, gets your hands dirty, that's the spirit around here. You can't run the game even if it says "Platinum" ? When you made sure you tried everything, congrats you found a regression, at least properly log a bug with the debug logs provided in hope someone fixes it, (that a lot to ask but why not even try to fix it yourself?).
Instead of threatening going back to windows like a child, you won't be missed.



At least show some respect the work of the community who worked their asses off for this unique alternative to actually happen.
Rant off.

ProtonDB is by far the most useful tool around.
This basically tells me which game is a go/no go before I actually buy it. Keep in mind it's actually crowd-sourced, meaning people like you and me, tech savy or not, new to Linux or not are contributing so we can all benefit from it.


By switching to Linux you should have been warned it wasn't an easy way, i.e games are not made for us and it's a miracle already we get them working.
So instead of whining reports are misleading, here's how you use ProtonDB:
1) Check recent reports, wine evolves constantly and given its purpose and wide application range, there will always be regressions;
2) Check for positive reports with the hardware as you have, sometimes just having a given model of GPU or whatev doesn't help
3) Match the proton version of the positive report matching your hardware, as I mentioned sometimes we have new features and smoother support, sometimes we get regressions.

This works 90% of the time.
For the other 10%, try proton experimental branch, try proton tricks, try eggroll version.
It's just a bunch of clicks and you don't even have to get your hands dirty.


I'd like to mention additional details, if eggroll works better and "Valve doesn't seem to care putting as many useful fixes" it's because eggroll embeds copied windows DLL and stuff that would infringe on the Proton licence, eggroll build faces cease and desist anytime from now but hopefully we're such a small market, corpo sharks don't seem to care about just yet.

Another thing, "Valve" needs to sort their shit for Linux".
No, Valve developers actively working on Linux are just a very few, it's definitely not the company as a whole, just check the announcements and commits, these are always the same 4 or 5 people top, and they're already making wonders given how few they actually are.
They don't freakin have time to sort and curate your steam library as you wrongfully setup your distro.


Finally, icing on the cake, just stop whining already and come help, gets your hands dirty, that's the spirit around here. You can't run the game even if it says "Platinum" ? When you made sure you tried everything, congrats you found a regression, at least properly log a bug with the debug logs provided in hope someone fixes it, (that a lot to ask but why not even try to fix it yourself?).
Instead of threatening going back to windows like a child, you won't be missed.



At least show some respect the work of the community who worked their asses off for this unique alternative to actually happen.
Rant off.

Lots of assumption in that comment... Wow! Think I never tried any of your solutions? I'm running a Ryzen 5 3600 with a GTX 1660... On a brand new stock Pop_OS install... Are these Alien parts?

Nevermind, sorry that I hurt your feelings asking for a better tool than ProtonDB. It's just a tendency that I witnessed lately... ProtonDB is getting less and less reliable by the day, like it or not.

It must be me, then... You are right, I'm just a whining child. I'd better be off on Windows, or better, Stadia then.

I must be getting old.. I got less time and patience for that kind of stuff...

I won't comment anymore on the subject.


Last edited by Mohandevir on 5 January 2021 at 11:26 pm UTC

ProtonDB is by far the most useful tool around.

I believe it's the only, so yeah. Doesn't say much.

I still like visiting wine appdb more if i happen to install something that requires any configuration to run with wine/proton. (although the ones i run are not exactly new)

On the other hand, I start the same games on Stadia and it just works: No tweaks, no hassle, just click & play.

For a newcomer, I'm affraid that all these trial and error possibilities are just going to be too much hassle to make Linux attractive.

It's the first time since 2012 that I really think about reinstalling Windows to play games, even if I hate this OS with a passion. I'm just getting bored of dealing with all these "shortcomings" and uncertainties.

Oh well, sorry for this rant. I miss the old days when all we had was Wine... At least we knew exactly what to expect.[/quote

Well proton is wine just now it has enhanced features to make compatibility better. If you need to go back to windows you do you but it sounds like a console is what your after just boot up play no need to play with settings etc or just stick with stadia if you have the connection to make it work for you.

On the other hand, I start the same games on Stadia and it just works: No tweaks, no hassle, just click & play.

For a newcomer, I'm affraid that all these trial and error possibilities are just going to be too much hassle to make Linux attractive.

It's the first time since 2012 that I really think about reinstalling Windows to play games, even if I hate this OS with a passion. I'm just getting bored of dealing with all these "shortcomings" and uncertainties.

Oh well, sorry for this rant. I miss the old days when all we had was Wine... At least we knew exactly what to expect.

Well proton is wine just now it has enhanced features to make compatibility better. If you need to go back to windows you do you but it sounds like a console is what your after just boot up play no need to play with settings etc or just stick with stadia if you have the connection to make it work for you.

Maybe... But with some hindsight, I like too much Linux to give up... I really feel torn atm. Thinking about it, I'd like to switch to an AMD GPU because I'm suspecting that part of my problem is with my GTX 1660 Super that got weird issues on Linux only (heating and noise), but it's just impossible, atm. Add to this all these Proton issues that I have... Oh well, I might temporarily "give my underwear color" to Microsoft while I have to use that GPU, but I'll probably be back when I have the chance of putting my hands on a RX6600xt... Somewhere in 2022, maybe?


Last edited by Mohandevir on 7 January 2021 at 2:19 pm UTC

Maybe... But with some hindsight, I like too much Linux to give up... I really feel torn atm. Thinking about it, I'd like to switch to an AMD GPU because I'm suspecting that part of my problem is with my GTX 1660 Super that got weird issues on Linux only (heating and noise), but it's just impossible, atm. Add to this all these Proton issues that I have... Oh well, I might temporarily "give my underwear color" to Microsoft while I have to use that GPU, but I'll probably be back when I have the chance of putting my hands on a RX6600xt... Somewhere in 2022, maybe?[/quote]
I get that i use Linux mainly for the customiseable elements but i get where you are coming from but i ve been here long enough to remember old linux gaming when the best game was Wolf Enemy territory. Oh god yeah hardware at any level is crazy price wise now.

Maybe... But with some hindsight, I like too much Linux to give up... I really feel torn atm. Thinking about it, I'd like to switch to an AMD GPU because I'm suspecting that part of my problem is with my GTX 1660 Super that got weird issues on Linux only (heating and noise), but it's just impossible, atm. Add to this all these Proton issues that I have... Oh well, I might temporarily "give my underwear color" to Microsoft while I have to use that GPU, but I'll probably be back when I have the chance of putting my hands on a RX6600xt... Somewhere in 2022, maybe?

I get that i use Linux mainly for the customiseable elements but i get where you are coming from but i ve been here long enough to remember old linux gaming when the best game was Wolf Enemy territory. Oh god yeah hardware at any level is crazy price wise now.

For my part, it all began with original EverQuest and Lord of the Rings Online through Wine... Circa 2009 on my ATI Radeon HD 4670, 512mb VRAM, if I remember correctly. Lol!


Last edited by Mohandevir on 7 January 2021 at 7:18 pm UTC

And unless the publishers keep track for who play via Proton, one is possibly counted as yet another Windows user.

You'll be happy to know that the data available to the publisher from Steam does in fact keep track of how many people are playing on Linux via Proton.

... so the developers/publishers know that they don't need to do any porting or support do have Linux customers.

I'm even thinking about hiding that I'm a Linux user when/if I'd buy a game to play it under Proton.