Tencent now own majority stake in Don't Starve and Oxygen Not Included creator Klei

It not that they have the highest concentration of rare-earth, is that they don't mind destroying their environment to do it cheaply.

Ah, well, as a Canadian I wouldn't know anything about that. <cough>tar sands</cough>


Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 24 January 2021 at 6:10 pm UTC

A game losing support for a platform doesn't make the game itself any worse. Just like having Linux support on its own doesn't make any game any better.

You do realize this is a site dedicated to Gaming on Linux? Of course a game losing support for a Linux make itself worse for Linux players.

The whole thing about Tencent being the CCP is untrue. The party has been having conflicts with Tencent and Ant for the past year and taking antitrust action against them, etc.

That said, as a community generally opposed and hostile to Microsoft's business practices, I should hope that people don't hold double standards and denounce a company that is objectively far worse. Just a bit of digging into some of the things its involved in should confirm that.

Tencent, and chinese companies, can buy a lot of enterprises because China is the best economy, growing like no one. If you don't like it you should change your own governments so you can compete with China, just like they did 50 years ago. Market socialism is beating liberal capitalism, grow up and deal with it.

Market Socialism? More like authoritarian capitalism or "capitalism with Chinese characteristics." I honestly hope no one tries to emulate that, it sounds like an incredibly unpleasant world to live in.


Last edited by Segata Sanshiro on 24 January 2021 at 11:22 am UTC

You do realize this is a site dedicated to Gaming on Linux? Of course a game losing support for a Linux make itself worse for Linux players.

No, it doesn't.
The game itself isn't better or worse. It's mechanics didn't change, nothing about it that has any influence on the quality of game changed, nobody who still plays the game lost any game quality over that change.

You can't play it. That makes your situation worse, so Epic made your situation worse, indeed, but not the game itself.
One shouldn't confuse one's own situation in relation to the game with the quality of a game itself.

More like authoritarian capitalism or "capitalism with Chinese characteristics." I honestly hope no one tries to emulate that, it sounds like an incredibly unpleasant world to live in.

Don't know about that. In contrast to the slowly collapsing economies we have in the west, their shit works and seems vastly more stable. And that is IMO mostly due to the advantages of authoritarian systems.
Not saying all should copy it, but it should be looked at thoroughly and without blinding idealism to see what improvements, if any, can be taken from it and applied to ours.


Last edited by TheSHEEEP on 24 January 2021 at 11:49 am UTC

You do realize this is a site dedicated to Gaming on Linux? Of course a game losing support for a Linux make itself worse for Linux players.

No, it doesn't.
The game itself isn't better or worse. It's mechanics didn't change, nothing about it that has any influence on the quality of game changed, nobody who still plays the game lost any game quality over that change.

You can't play it. That makes your situation worse, so Epic made your situation worse, indeed, but not the game itself.
One shouldn't confuse one's own situation in relation to the game with the quality of a game itself.

More like authoritarian capitalism or "capitalism with Chinese characteristics." I honestly hope no one tries to emulate that, it sounds like an incredibly unpleasant world to live in.

Don't know about that. In contrast to the slowly collapsing economies we have in the west, their shit works and seems vastly more stable. And that is IMO mostly due to the advantages of authoritarian systems.
Not saying all should copy it, but it should be looked at thoroughly and without blinding idealism to see what improvements, if any, can be taken from it and applied to ours.

Well, that depends. Sure, maybe the gameplay didn't change, but what if they dropped Linux support because they couldn't figure out how to install a rootkit, but they did on the Windows version?
https://www.osnews.com/story/131665/riot-games-maker-of-league-of-legends-installs-rootkit-with-their-new-hit-game-valorant/

Sure, maybe the gameplay didn't change, but what if they dropped Linux support because they couldn't figure out how to install a rootkit, but they did on the Windows version?

An online game needs good anti-cheat software, that's an unfortunate truth.
If rootkits are truly necessary or not is certainly up for debate (I'd say no), but it doesn't really matter for this point.
If an online game does not have good anti-cheat, then the quality of the game would definitely suffer.

I just don't see what the connection between dropping a platform and a game's quality has to do with this?

Sure, maybe the gameplay didn't change, but what if they dropped Linux support because they couldn't figure out how to install a rootkit, but they did on the Windows version?

An online game needs good anti-cheat software, that's an unfortunate truth.
If rootkits are truly necessary or not is certainly up for debate (I'd say no), but it doesn't really matter for this point.
If an online game does not have good anti-cheat, then the quality of the game would definitely suffer.

I just don't see what the connection between dropping a platform and a game's quality has to do with this?

Two possilbe reasons:
1) Their rootkits doesn't work same way in Linux as on Windows, so it can't do anything against Linux cheaters.
2) Their rootkits can't be hidden from advanced Linux researchers and of caurse they not want that.

Any way, rootkits aren't wellcomed from serious Linux users. If someone is just gamer and not more, they must ditch Linux and install Windows.

Tell me about one game that went worse because of Tencent.
A month ago they bought the Warframe company, are they putting some communist message in it with an update?
Tencent, and chinese companies, can buy a lot of enterprises because China is the best economy, growing like no one. If you don't like it you should change your own governments so you can compete with China, just like they did 50 years ago.
Market socialism is beating liberal capitalism, grow up and deal with it.

From my understanding of that, it comes from China having the highest concentration of rare metals in the world. The ones that are used in all of our electronics. So a mix of luck and technology is what is making their economy boom. Everyone else is just kind of screwed. It is the same sort of thing with oil and the middle east.

China has a lot of rare earths (it's a big country), but they are not that "rare", look at this: https://mrdata.usgs.gov/catalog/cite-view.php?cite=845

Tell me about one game that went worse because of Tencent.

Rocket League lost Linux support. Period.

I hated that (never toucher Rocket League since then, not even with Proton), but i fail to see how Tencent is involved in it, Tim Sweeney has been anti-linux for so much time, it has nothing to do with Tencent.
Are you saying that the super-duper-evil CCP wants us to use Windows and follow a guy (Sweeney) that compares linux to escape the United States? That would be peak conspiranoia.

EGS is NOT Tencent, Tencent is NOT the CCP.
A Netherlands company has the 30% of Tencent (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosus), but China haters won't tell you that, they have the major stake on Tencent, much more than the actual founder Ma Huateng (he has like 9%).

I can link to Wikipedia, too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tencent#Government_partnerships

You should assume that big multinational corporations based in China are more or less directly controlled by the CCP, and whether or not you think this presents security or privacy concerns, or whether you believe they're putting propaganda into their products, or whether you believe you would be affected by such propaganda, you should not want to support the CCP financially, either. You apparently admire how they do "business," which is great if you ignore all the human rights abuses. Honestly, making excuses for Tencent is a pretty damned weird position to take. They don't need your help.

Sure, maybe the gameplay didn't change, but what if they dropped Linux support because they couldn't figure out how to install a rootkit, but they did on the Windows version?

An online game needs good anti-cheat software, that's an unfortunate truth.
If rootkits are truly necessary or not is certainly up for debate (I'd say no), but it doesn't really matter for this point.
If an online game does not have good anti-cheat, then the quality of the game would definitely suffer.

I just don't see what the connection between dropping a platform and a game's quality has to do with this?

Two possilbe reasons:
1) Their rootkits doesn't work same way in Linux as on Windows, so it can't do anything against Linux cheaters.
2) Their rootkits can't be hidden from advanced Linux researchers and of caurse they not want that.

That's all correct, and it might be possible explanations of why a platform is dropped - security concerns.
But still nothing of that has anything to do with the quality of the game. I'm really not getting the connection here.

I can link to Wikipedia, too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tencent#Government_partnerships

1.) Wikipedia as the arbiter of truth - come on It's good for anything historical or scientific, including IT, but as soon as politics are involved, I wouldn't trust Wikipedia more than the next best tabloid journalist...
2.) So, what? You think only the Chinese government has games made on behalf of them? Seriously?
3.) The post you quoted didn't quote Wikipedia to begin with ??

You should assume that big multinational corporations based in China are more or less directly controlled by the CCP

Except for the tiny part where this is simply untrue and typical western China bashing.
Even Chinese SOEs have a lot of leeway in how they run their businesses - privately owned companies even more so. And Tencent is not an SOE.
Are large companies monitored by the CCP? Of course - but as long as they don't take action against the government or get too uppity, they can do whatever they want.

They don't need your help.

Indeed they don't. And I don't think anyone here is defeding Tencents actions in anything.
What does need some help in the face of your blatant conspiracy of "they control everything!" is the truth, though.

Sure, maybe the gameplay didn't change, but what if they dropped Linux support because they couldn't figure out how to install a rootkit, but they did on the Windows version?

An online game needs good anti-cheat software, that's an unfortunate truth.
If rootkits are truly necessary or not is certainly up for debate (I'd say no), but it doesn't really matter for this point.
If an online game does not have good anti-cheat, then the quality of the game would definitely suffer.

I just don't see what the connection between dropping a platform and a game's quality has to do with this?

Two possilbe reasons:
1) Their rootkits doesn't work same way in Linux as on Windows, so it can't do anything against Linux cheaters.
2) Their rootkits can't be hidden from advanced Linux researchers and of caurse they not want that.

That's all correct, and it might be possible explanations of why a platform is dropped - security concerns.
But still nothing of that has anything to do with the quality of the game. I'm really not getting the connection here.

I can link to Wikipedia, too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tencent#Government_partnerships

1.) Wikipedia as the arbiter of truth - come on It's good for anything historical or scientific, including IT, but as soon as politics are involved, I wouldn't trust Wikipedia more than the next best tabloid journalist...
2.) So, what? You think only the Chinese government has games made on behalf of them? Seriously?
3.) The post you quoted didn't quote Wikipedia to begin with ??

You should assume that big multinational corporations based in China are more or less directly controlled by the CCP

Except for the tiny part where this is simply untrue and typical western China bashing.
Even Chinese SOEs have a lot of leeway in how they run their businesses - privately owned companies even more so. And Tencent is not an SOE.
Are large companies monitored by the CCP? Of course - but as long as they don't take action against the government or get too uppity, they can do whatever they want.

They don't need your help.

Indeed they don't. And I don't think anyone here is defeding Tencents actions in anything.
What does need some help in the face of your blatant conspiracy of "they control everything!" is the truth, though.

The quality of the game could be diminished by the anti cheat / rootkit causing performance issues (especially on lower end machines). I apologize if I didn't specify that's what I meant in my previous post, as I thought it would be obvious.

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Ha ha, I think I recently saw something that showed it wasn't Kool-Aid they drank, but actually was a rip off one.

https://www.woot.com/blog/post/the-debunker-did-the-jonestown-cultists-drink-the-kool-aid

But here's the detail that most people don't know: the 907 people who died of cyanide poisoning at Jonestown did not ingest the poison in Kool-Aid. Instead, Jones's aids mixed up the fatal cocktail in metal drums of grape Flavor Aid, Kool-Aid's cheaper competitor. Somehow Flavor Aid escaped unscathed from this public relations nightmare, with Kool-Aid taking the hit instead. The Kraft brand seems to be doing okay though, still selling over $300 million worth of its fruity powders every year.

Last edited by slaapliedje on 24 January 2021 at 6:05 pm UTC

A game losing support for a platform doesn't make the game itself any worse. Just like having Linux support on its own doesn't make any game any better.

You do realize this is a site dedicated to Gaming on Linux? Of course a game losing support for a Linux make itself worse for Linux players.

True but it's good to know what you're arguing about. In this case, talking about whether the game runs on Linux is shifting to arguing about something else than what was originally being discussed--hence, whether true or not, or generally relevant to the site or not, it fails to refute what the other person is saying.

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Ha ha, I think I recently saw something that showed it wasn't Kool-Aid they drank, but actually was a rip off one.

https://www.woot.com/blog/post/the-debunker-did-the-jonestown-cultists-drink-the-kool-aid

But here's the detail that most people don't know: the 907 people who died of cyanide poisoning at Jonestown did not ingest the poison in Kool-Aid. Instead, Jones's aids mixed up the fatal cocktail in metal drums of grape Flavor Aid, Kool-Aid's cheaper competitor. Somehow Flavor Aid escaped unscathed from this public relations nightmare, with Kool-Aid taking the hit instead. The Kraft brand seems to be doing okay though, still selling over $300 million worth of its fruity powders every year.

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sure, it's possible....
but brand names very often become "a thing":

let me google that
pass me a kleenex
i need a band-aid
this floor could use a good hoovering(bonus points to anyone who gets that reference)

i just noticed there was alot of Corporate Overlord Propaganda Flavored Kool-Aid on offer here and i wanted to make sure others had more flavors to choose from.


Last edited by iwantlinuxgames on 24 January 2021 at 6:28 pm UTC

More like authoritarian capitalism or "capitalism with Chinese characteristics." I honestly hope no one tries to emulate that, it sounds like an incredibly unpleasant world to live in.

Don't know about that. In contrast to the slowly collapsing economies we have in the west, their shit works and seems vastly more stable. And that is IMO mostly due to the advantages of authoritarian systems.
Not saying all should copy it, but it should be looked at thoroughly and without blinding idealism to see what improvements, if any, can be taken from it and applied to ours.

Lots of authoritarian systems suck at delivering the goods--most, even. China's does some things that most authoritarian systems don't . . . and actually has for centuries. I see the current Chinese system as basically a modern-tech version of the traditional Chinese "Government by scholars who passed the exam" system. Or, to look at it a different way, as government by the HR department. Basically, the Communist party tries hard to promote based on merit, so despite corruption most of the higher-ups are competent. Meanwhile, so far, capitalist though they basically are, the Chinese government see capitalism and markets as things to be managed rather than worshipped; this works better.

I don't think that situation is stable, though, for the same reasons the Anglosphere postwar welfare state was not stable: Eventually the fast growth that lets both rich and poor see some of their aspirations met will slow down, and their rich, like ours, will realize that if they want to get forever more they're gonna have to steal it from the poor, and to steal it from the poor they'll need more control of the state. Then things will stagnate and get more unequal and unstable and corrupt until the Chinese masses decide they've had enough of being screwed the government has lost the mandate of heaven. It might all happen faster because there won't be residual democracy letting people struggle to keep old reforms.

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Ha ha, I think I recently saw something that showed it wasn't Kool-Aid they drank, but actually was a rip off one.

https://www.woot.com/blog/post/the-debunker-did-the-jonestown-cultists-drink-the-kool-aid

But here's the detail that most people don't know: the 907 people who died of cyanide poisoning at Jonestown did not ingest the poison in Kool-Aid. Instead, Jones's aids mixed up the fatal cocktail in metal drums of grape Flavor Aid, Kool-Aid's cheaper competitor. Somehow Flavor Aid escaped unscathed from this public relations nightmare, with Kool-Aid taking the hit instead. The Kraft brand seems to be doing okay though, still selling over $300 million worth of its fruity powders every year.

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sure, it's possible....
but brand names very often become "a thing":

let me google that
pass me a kleenex
i need a band-aid
this floor could use a good hoovering(bonus points to anyone who gets that reference)

i just noticed there was alot of Corporate Overlord Propaganda Flavored Kool-Aid on offer here and i wanted to make sure others had more flavors to choose from.

Oh yeah, I know for sure how brand names become synonymous with the definition of that thing. Though for Kool-Aid I'm sure that isn't something they are proud of. 'Drink the Kool-Aid' sounds so much better than 'Drink the Flavor-Aid' though! Both I'm sure are deadly to me without cyanide as they're basically sugar. Stupid diabetes.

2.) So, what? You think only the Chinese government has games made on behalf of them? Seriously?

No, I don't. Any more stupid questions?

That's all correct, and it might be possible explanations of why a platform is dropped - security concerns.
But still nothing of that has anything to do with the quality of the game. I'm really not getting the connection here.

Security is just word, it's mask to hide some malware behinde it. EAC, Battleye, Vanguard and PUBG's multiple anti-cheats all are rootkits and Tencent uses standard phrase: "We're not not collecting your personal information, we're using anti-cheats against cheaters".
Give us one bloody reason to trust them?
Who trusts them they don't know about rootkits and security, they know just play games and play them again, nothing more, maybe they not know multiplication table also (from 1x1 to 10x10).
Rootkits are malwares, it doesn't matter for what they are created, all rootkits makes systems vulnerable for another attack vectors.
So, Tencent removes Linux versions, they know that there are many Linux users who don't care about gaming, but can proove that their rootkits are really rootkits, malwares.
have you thinked how many security analystics are interested Tencent's owned rootkits? This analystics also boughted buy Tencent, because they "not exist" any more.
Cheers.


Last edited by Basiani on 30 January 2021 at 3:47 pm UTC

I did not read all comments, so here's me rudely leaving my opinion without reading others':

I like Klei games and I hope they continue coming out on Linux without loot boxes and the like. But if that does happen, then I know there are like a million indie devs out there these days thanks to easy publishing provided by the Steam store. I will not be in want of games.