David Rosen of Wolfire Games explains why they're taking on Valve in a lawsuit

Like others have mentioned, I too use Steam mainly because that's where most of my games were bought from. The only way to eliminate the vendor lock-in problem for good would be for all these competing game distribution services to be supplanted by a single, open-source, decentralized (so probably blockchain-based) option. The LBRY network comes to mind... it's already possible to distribute software there but the various front end clients aren't exactly tailored to it, yet. Perhaps integration with it (or another better-suited network, if there is one) would be worth looking into for the devs of, say, Lutris and/or GameHub.

Blablabla... "For the customers freedom of choice".... Blablabla... Yeah right!

From my end, as a customer, everything is fine with Steam, but I understand, from what is being reported, that true quality indie developers are being drowned in shovelwares. That's the real issue. It all comes down to how much copies they are selling on Steam. Maybe Steam should think of a way to curate all that shovelware and remove all the noise that it causes in the discovery algorythms? Maybe there is just too much games on Steam?

All I know it's that, from my customer's point of view, there are two quality stores... Steam and GoG. I won't buy from anywhere else in the near futur... Maybe itch and in extreme cases, Stadia.

The regular game festivals is meant to help with that.

Is it enough?

Good Luck Mr. Rosen and Wolfire. That's all I can say.

Is all this a part of Valve's a contract/agreement between Valve and a game seller? It sounds like how the recording industry landscape is littered with musicians who lost all rights to their songs because of the contract they initially signed.

Or is it akin to the verbal contract made to a loan shark in a movie, details of which might simply be a matter of how the loan shark is feeling that day.

If all this was part of a written contract signed by Rosen, then it sounds like buyer's regret. Caveat emptor and all that. Shouldn't have signed a contract. It seems almost benign compared to the preposterous EULAs of almost any robust corporate software company you care to mention.

But. If Valve is just --- abracadabra! --- making these rules up whole cloth (which I doubt) then, yes, sue the crap and marrow out of them. They're behaving as petty, vindictive bullies, and should be taken down a peg or three.


Last edited by Nanobang on 7 May 2021 at 1:46 pm UTC

I don't think the claim that thay you can't sell cheaper elsewhere is true even *with* steam key. Back when humble bundle actually had good bundles, I most certainly bought bundles for 20$ (a good deal of which went to charity) *and* got steam keys for ~10 games each.

I only buy on steam now, because yes they absolutely deserve their cut with all the work they are doing for Linux graphics. And if it wasn't for steam, they'd all be stuck in a windows store monopoly with no escape, so drop the lawsuit man, stop wasting everyone's time.

So they're not happy, that they can't sell their game cheaper then on steam my understanding. Nothing stopping them for doing it just with valve help. Don't seem fair for valve to allowed Dev to come out with a game on valve store and sell it cheaper then on steam. Can it be abused by Dev or other store.

Agree or not with Valve's price parity clause (disclaimer: I don't agree with that) but at least look at it on its own merits.

If there even is one...

the failure of other stores is not due to the 'dominance' of steam, it is due to regional prices, paying in dollars in my country is very high, the value of the currency is devalued with respect to the dollar, those prices are adapted to the cost of living is a big help, this is what other stores don't see. Sometimes I use stores like Nuuvem or GMG that also offer regional prices.

Thanks to this, and it is an observation that we make with friends, many friends and people we know within my country have stopped pirating games, because with the prices it is justified to pay for them. Proof of this is how the number of users of a FB group in my country that is for steam users has grown from about five years, approximately, to today

Some games in steam can't be bought from steam store, you can have them only by purchasing a key.
Many games are sold cheaper outside of steam, without sales or anything.
I don't get this complaint. As user, i can and i buy games cheaper outside of steam store.

I'm sorry to hear he has a split personality disorder. I wish him well.

Agree or not with Valve's price parity clause (disclaimer: I don't agree with that) but at least look at it on its own merits.

If there even is one...

Have you read the lawsuit?

And this topic is about a blog post of someone who is in a position to know if there is this clause or not. He's seen the clauses.

Unless you're calling him a liar. In which case I'd say that David Rosen has far more credibility than you do.

And I have quoted Chet Faliszek (ex-Valve employee), who said that such a clause doesn't exist.

Agree or not with Valve's price parity clause (disclaimer: I don't agree with that) but at least look at it on its own merits.

If there even is one...

Have you read the lawsuit?

And this topic is about a blog post of someone who is in a position to know if there is this clause or not. He's seen the clauses.

Unless you're calling him a liar. In which case I'd say that David Rosen has far more credibility than you do.

And I have quoted Chet Faliszek (ex-Valve employee), who said that such a clause doesn't exist.

Great. Show me the quote.

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/05/david-rosen-of-wolfire-games-explains-why-theyre-taking-on-valve-in-a-lawsuit/comment_id=202951

I am reading through the Steam Distribution Agreement and the Steam Subscriber agreement, but I can't find the price parity clause. I'm pretty sure I have seen it in there somewhere before, and that is specifically applies to Steam keys.

Anyhoo, going to keep looking.

Agree or not with Valve's price parity clause (disclaimer: I don't agree with that) but at least look at it on its own merits.

If there even is one...

Have you read the lawsuit?

And this topic is about a blog post of someone who is in a position to know if there is this clause or not. He's seen the clauses.

Unless you're calling him a liar. In which case I'd say that David Rosen has far more credibility than you do.

And I have quoted Chet Faliszek (ex-Valve employee), who said that such a clause doesn't exist.

Great. Show me the quote.

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/05/david-rosen-of-wolfire-games-explains-why-theyre-taking-on-valve-in-a-lawsuit/comment_id=202951

Yeah....that doesn't say what you think it says. Someone is asking explicitly about price parity and there is, at the time of writing, no response to that.

If that's not the main point, what is?

Probably going to get in trouble for this, but here's the relevant part. The documents will be public once it hits the court anyway, so here, judge for yourselves:

Steam Key Rules and Guidelines

You should use keys to sell your game on other stores in a similar way to how you sell your game on Steam. It is important that you don't give Steam customers a worse deal.

It's OK to run a discount on different stores at different times as long as you plan to give a comparable offer to Steam customers within a reasonable amount of time.

Occasionally it may make sense to offer your game in a bundle or subscription, timed at the right point in a game's life cycle. Keep in mind that the perceived price in the bundle/subscription should be a price you are willing to run the game at a standalone price or discount on Steam. Philosophically, you can think about it like any other discount: if you’re making an aggressive offer in one place, make it elsewhere too. We want to avoid a situation where customers get a worse offer on the Steam store, so feel free to reach out to us via the Developer Support tool if you want to talk through a specific scenario.

Steam keys shouldn't be given away for free if you aren't also offering the same deal (i.e., give the game away for free) to Steam customers. If you want to run a giveaway on Steam, please reach out to us and submit a ticket .

Steam keys shouldn't be sold in bulk. For example, you should not sell your game on sites that offer customers the option to purchase large numbers of copies of your game for a lower price. You should also not include your game in bundles on sites that allow customers to purchase multiple copies of the bundle for a lower price.

We reserve the right to deny requests for keys or revoke key requesting privileges for partners that are abusing them or disadvantaging Steam customers.

If we detect that you have requested an extreme number of keys and you aren't offering Steam customers a good value, we may deny your request.

We reserve the right to remove key requesting privileges from any partner whose sole business is selling Steam keys and not providing value or a fair deal to Steam customers.

Keys cannot be generated for the following:
"Free" products
If you want to give away keys for a free package or something that will never go on sale (event giveaways, special promotions, etc), please contact Valve.
Steam Bundles
Steam keys cannot be generated for Steam bundles. You will need to generate keys for the individual apps in the bundle.

The above is specific to Steam keys, and thus conflicts with Rosen's story a bit.

Welcome to the world of manipulative language.
Most of the lawsuit is, in my opinion, full of it. But the price parity for places where there are no steam keys involved, is possibly quite serious, so it pays to be extra explicit about it.

What manipulative language?

The blog post is about price parity and that he claims that Valve would kick him off Steam if he would sell the game at another place for less money.

Chet said that this isn't true and that a clause, that would forbid it, doesn't exist in the agreement.

@mirv I posted the relevant part of the Steam agreement on the previous page.

Welcome to the world of manipulative language.
Most of the lawsuit is, in my opinion, full of it. But the price parity for places where there are no steam keys involved, is possibly quite serious, so it pays to be extra explicit about it.

What manipulative language?

The blog post is about price parity and that he claims that Valve would kick him off Steam if he would sell the game at another place for less money.

Chet said that this isn't true and that a clause, that would forbid it, doesn't exist in the agreement.

Both of you. Stop - read the post I made on the previous page that actually contains the relevant text from the Steam agreement.

Welcome to the world of manipulative language.
Most of the lawsuit is, in my opinion, full of it. But the price parity for places where there are no steam keys involved, is possibly quite serious, so it pays to be extra explicit about it.

What manipulative language?

The blog post is about price parity and that he claims that Valve would kick him off Steam if he would sell the game at another place for less money.

Chet said that this isn't true and that a clause, that would forbid it, doesn't exist in the agreement.

Both of you. Stop - read the post I made on the previous page that actually contains the relevant text from the Steam agreement.

Yes, but that applies only to the keys - not for example selling the game for $30 on Steam and $20 on the Epic Store. That's what he complains about.