Hints appear of Valve making a handheld Steam "SteamPal" Neptune console

Quoting: AppelsinIf so, then

A) Valve needs to build them themselves.

Yeah. Luckily, since the Steam Machine thing Valve have gotten a bit more experience with hardware, like the VR stuff. So they should have more capacity to make this themselves than they would have to try to make Steam Machines themselves.

Quoting: Liam DaweAnswering with some thoughts of my own :)

Well, Steam Machines failed for so many reasons. If this is a device built by Valve, and there's only one (or 1-2 configs?). I can see it doing a lot better with the state of Linux now.

the issue is, they dont have to work for us, they have to work for the "average joe", otherwise nothing will change in terms of market share and thirdy party support.
and i dont think the average joe would give a second chance to valve, imagine knowing the disaster it was the last time and beting your money at it?
we may be willing to do, but we dont count, there are a lot of fanboys on the linux comunity or people who just want to support the cause, but it will be worthless if the average dont purchase then.

sure, maybe we will be able to game on the go, but we already can do that with the likes of GFN and stadia, so its at the point of diminishing returns.

Quoting: Liam DaweThat does bring up a good point but if Valve only supported some form of Linux on it, more might keep it that way. Either way, it would be a boost to Linux gaming if the main way to use it is with let's say SteamOS 3.0.

on the other hand, if that fail they might give up...

Quoting: Liam DaweAs I mentioned in a prev comment, given the success of other devices, I wouldn't just count the idea out. As long as this time around, Valve market it correctly and properly.

after they did 0 market the last time i wont hold my breath for that thing, i'm tired of creating fake hopes to be burned right after.


i had hopes when my government and many others arround the world tried to push linux, but they failed.
i had hopes when google tried to push chromeOS, but it failed.
i had hopes when valve tried to push SteamOS and Steam Machines, but it failed.

why should i lie to my self again?

i had hopes for android, it is an sucess but we dont count that as linux for some reason and it proved that the comunity was wrong in a lot of things that they said that would happen if linux became mainstream (like not having virus)

i had hopes that i could do my part in convincing a lot of people to use linux, but i was not able to convince anyone and as the time pass i started to realize how many things i had to give up in order to use linux (i got to know more games that i wanted to play that i cant and some were online games that dont exist anymore so i lost the oportunity forever not to mention softwares that would make my life easier or open new possibilities of things to do.)
so nowadays i cant convince myself to keep using it, its at the point of diminishing returns and the only reason why i dont go back to windows is the work is because it would be a lot of trouble backuping/formating/reinstaling everything.

honestly i think the main issue of linux was never conving people to give it a chance, but to convince then to stick arround for enough time to see the marketshare grow, many people on my country used linux when it was not ready for the mass adoption, so the reason why they dont use linux is not because they dont know about it but because they do and had an bad impression on it (wich is even worse, first impresion=last impression)

now, an gaming console could be an game changer, bsd has 0 games but playstation that is based on bsd has all the most relevant games of an entire generation, they just dont share this sucess with the bsd desktop¹, if an linux console sell like an switch or playstation it could change forever the situation of linux in both in terms of support for both new games and old games and finally the desktop gain some marketshare as result of this sucess...
but i think its too litle to late, honestly i think the only chance that we had was if we had fought against microsoft before they had stabilished total dominance and had won the fight even if that meant writing proprietary code, its better to dominate the market with some proprietary solution then open soruce it, than let some one else dominate the market someone who dont plan to open source it ever.

its too late now, the windows ecosystem has become an monster we just arent aware of the extension of the problem.
we say things like "gimp can replace photoshop" but photoshop has an ecosystem of add'ons bigger that can be compared to the ecosystem of thirdy party apps that windows have, not to mention that windows has acess to both photoshop and gimp.
we are satisfied of just being able to play an game, while on windows people are moding then to make their own levels and stuff with thirdy party tools that might not work on linux.
we have "hackers" that make wine, but we ignore that windows have "hackers" that do revere enginering on this ecosystem to make those mod tools.
people look at protondb and think that 80% of steam games run on linux, but i saw some games rated as platinum (works perfectly) that were missing basic features like sound effects, so protondb isnt realiable at all, people need to know an game to do Q/A and that is not the case for the submissions on protondb (even the small white list from valve isnt perfect there were bug fixes for nier automata runing on proton after they withe lited it) not to mention that the comunity effort isnt enogu to even test all the steam games, let alone do an proper q/a of then to make sure they work.


¹(the same can be said about runing android apps on linux, sure you can use an emulator but you might as well emulate on windows at this point , with better emulators)

The developer program mentioned might be some kind of incentive for developers to specifically optimize for/support this device. This would be generally good for us.

As for the price of the device. They'd have to sell it for close to cost or at a loss to compete with the Switch.

I might actually be interested in this, depending on how it comes out (assuming it does, of course). I never had any sort of console growing up so I became a de facto PC gamer, and I've generally been fine with that…but then my buddy talks about how he's going to go play Pokemon on his Switch in bed, and I've been thinking recently that something like that but for my Steam library might be nice. Obviously I wouldn't be playing Age of Empires II or Paradox games on it or anything, but some of the more casual small games in my library might work: FTL, Into the Breach, that sort of thing. (And due to my tastes a pretty good portion of my library is these kinds of smaller, less-demanding games that might work well on a portable device.) I'm never going to give up on my desktop, but having a portable way to play (some) games, say, in bed, or on the train or when visiting family on vacation or something might be nice. Of course it'll depend very much on specifics, but I find myself surprisingly open to the possibility (as an otherwise "hardcore" PC gamer).


Last edited by Philadelphus on 7 June 2021 at 8:16 am UTC

Quoting: rustybroomhandleAs for the price of the device. They'd have to sell it for close to cost or at a loss to compete with the Switch.

Hell for a UMPC I would even take it at cost as I figure Valve has an OK-ish chance to under cut the GPD Win devices even selling at cost. While a niche market there is definitely a market and the lack of good options for Linux (Most the GPD devices have various issues with Linux when I looked into them) would probably make me pull the trigger on one finally. Plus in my case I could run a good chunk of my library on a portable device from being stuck on an iGPU system for several years so I have plenty of lighter games I really enjoy.

Quoting: MohandevirWhen using Steam Link, I personnally use my Steam Controller with a mobile phone clip for Xbox... It usually works, same form factor:

https://www.powera.com/moga/

This seems to offer a better solution than any dedicated Steam Handheld I can think of. Indeed, now that I think about it, I've got a few extra phone holders for the car that could pretty easily be modded to fit my Steam Controller ... hmmmm

Quoting: rustybroomhandleThe developer program mentioned might be some kind of incentive for developers to specifically optimize for/support this device. This would be generally good for us.

As for the price of the device. They'd have to sell it for close to cost or at a loss to compete with the Switch.

Yeah but no. The Switch is underpowered for VR. Because that was the discussion about, when Newell said "You'll see before the end of the year". Unless I misunderstood? And I doubt they would sell a device that can't run the Valve Index... Valve must be thinking about the Steam ecosystem as a whole, I guess.

I'd target Xbox Series X and PS5 if I were Valve (specs and prices).

Just brainstorming... Based on something similar to laptop hardware... Taking into account it's a fixed hardware configuration and adding to this scale economies... And maybe selling it at no profit or under cost... Maybe something can be done to lower the prices.

Edit: I'm working on a 17" laptop with i9-10980HK and Quadro RTX 3000 that weighs no more than 2.2kg (4.85lbs)... It's going to be smaller and and weigh less too. Convert that to gaming hardware... Ryzen 5800H? RX 6600m? Probably a couple of tweaks will be required to get the best of the battery. Just ideas... Or my personnal wishlist.


Edit2: Rumors pretends it's a Van Gogh APU (codename Aerith) 4c+SMT / 8CU rdna2... 399$ USD... Too bad for my wishlist, AAA gaming and probably VR, but better for price and battery life:

https://videocardz.com/newz/valve-steampal-handheld-gaming-console-rumored-to-feature-amd-apu

Jupiter? Neptune? What does that mean? Wrong planet or another device spec?


Last edited by Mohandevir on 26 May 2021 at 5:48 pm UTC

Would a device with swappable controller bits work? Like a way to have the section where a D pad/stick would go instead be able to have it unclipped and fitted with a physical D pad or stick or the touchpad like the Steam controller or potentially even something else. Customise the controller setup to your preference.

sounds more promising, than the steam machines

Quoting: TheSHEEEPWell, it does seem to be a more promising idea than the Steam Machine.
And game support is certainly WAY better now via Proton than it used to be many years ago.

On the other hand, I don't really know if there is a market for such a handheld.
I wish them good luck, anyway.

I would buy the shit out of this if it worked like the Switch.

Quoting: dvdI for one would be interested in such a thing if it was reasonably priced and had a nice battery life. On the other hand if it's 'play Cyberpunk 2077' on a handheld it's probably not for me, but i'd like to play Dead Cells and the like on the go.

It would be also cool if they kept it open like SteamOS (with a debian based system perhaps) so you could install Retroarch etc. on it or use it as a pdf reader.

I mean you can kind of already play Dead Cells on the Switch...

Quoting: SupayWould a device with swappable controller bits work? Like a way to have the section where a D pad/stick would go instead be able to have it unclipped and fitted with a physical D pad or stick or the touchpad like the Steam controller or potentially even something else. Customise the controller setup to your preference.

Like the Thrustmaster eSwap Pro?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg9svT9VsQo

I love mine.

Quoting: elmapuli dont think the average joe would give a second chance to valve, imagine knowing the disaster it was the last time and beting your money at it?

The average joe does not remember what happened two years ago, much less as far back as the Steam Machine is now. Otherwise the state of politics would be very different.

Quoting: rustybroomhandleThe developer program mentioned might be some kind of incentive for developers to specifically optimize for/support this device. This would be generally good for us.

As for the price of the device. They'd have to sell it for close to cost or at a loss to compete with the Switch.

That is true. I'm sure the Switch itself sells at a loss, after all, and the other consoles. Yet another reason it was always important for Steam to make the dashed things themselves: They can make plans based on the revenue from additional game sales making up for losses on selling the hardware, whereas companies in a third party ecosystem cannot. So a bunch of third parties were never going to be able to sell at a price point competitive with consoles who also have that sell at a loss, make it up on game sales model.

Quoting: SupayWould a device with swappable controller bits work? Like a way to have the section where a D pad/stick would go instead be able to have it unclipped and fitted with a physical D pad or stick or the touchpad like the Steam controller or potentially even something else. Customise the controller setup to your preference.

Valve do hold a patent on doing exactly that.

Edit: found the patent.

As well as having an ecosystem of widgets so that people can customise the controls how they want, that would also make replacing them easy if they got faulty or gunged up or whatever.


Last edited by CatKiller on 27 May 2021 at 1:00 am UTC

Quoting: Purple Library GuyThat is true. I'm sure the Switch itself sells at a loss, after all, and the other consoles.

That is most likely true at console launch, when it's of paramount importance to get the majority share of the market to reap the benefits of network effect. You only have 1 console launch. But after that it's not a given anymore. There was a lot of speculation back then at xbox 360 and ps3 time that m$ and Sony stopped selling at loss after 3-4 years and were in active territory since ages.

The last generations though suffered pc competition greatly, they had to reduce iteration to just two years so probably they never had the time to compensate.

Nintendo however is a different player. It doesn't use superior hardware as it's selling point. It's totally possible Nintendo sells at production cost at launch and then start to gain something already after a few months.



Funny thing. Everyone is 100% sure consoles are sold at loss, nobody challenge this accepted fact. Yet in EpicVSApple Epic couldn't provide any piece of evidence or even some clue that this is a fact, despite this being a fundamental piece of its theory and despite having both Sony and M$ support. This at least should suggest something on consoles real manufacturing costs.

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: elmapuli dont think the average joe would give a second chance to valve, imagine knowing the disaster it was the last time and beting your money at it?

The average joe does not remember what happened two years ago, much less as far back as the Steam Machine is now. Otherwise the state of politics would be very different.

he may not remember, but the gaming journalist will remember them

Quoting: elmapul

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: elmapuli dont think the average joe would give a second chance to valve, imagine knowing the disaster it was the last time and beting your money at it?

The average joe does not remember what happened two years ago, much less as far back as the Steam Machine is now. Otherwise the state of politics would be very different.

he may not remember, but the gaming journalist will remember them

Certainly one of the things that Valve will absolutely have to push much harder on and get right this time is propaganda marketing. They should maybe hire someone because they're not that good at it themselves.

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: elmapuli dont think the average joe would give a second chance to valve, imagine knowing the disaster it was the last time and beting your money at it?

The average joe does not remember what happened two years ago, much less as far back as the Steam Machine is now. Otherwise the state of politics would be very different.

With how much advertising and availability for the Steam Machines, I don't think the average joe even knew about it.

I bet more average people have heard of the Atari VCS!

Quoting: MalFunny thing. Everyone is 100% sure consoles are sold at loss, nobody challenge this accepted fact. Yet in EpicVSApple Epic couldn't provide any piece of evidence or even some clue that this is a fact, despite this being a fundamental piece of its theory and despite having both Sony and M$ support. This at least should suggest something on consoles real manufacturing costs.

I've always questioned this. Most people don't realize the cost of materials significantly drops when millions are ordered. With just about every console maker just making deals with AMD, it's hard not to think that they're making some serious amounts of bank, and that there's a good mark-up on things.