What we want to see from the possible SteamPal handheld from Valve

Quoting: Liam DaweWe're not talking traditional consoles, we're talking what's basically a portable PC here.

I stand by what I said there. The market for portable PC gaming handhelds has nowhere near hit the proper mainstream yet.

Quoting: omer666As someone who's once been really passionate about handheld consoles, I second that.

I'd like to get back to you two on that, if I may.
From a regular consumers point of view I believe this will be a handheld gaming device just like all its predecessors, with its unique pros and cons. They all had their advantages, all had their selling points. They all had their unique OS, just like this one. This is a continuation of the market that started with the Game Boy.

You may say the PC game catalogue is the whole difference (cause really, that's all), but that's also the massive drawback here: The regular PC gaming market will render this device outdated almost before it leaves the conveyor belt. This is *THE* major advantage of the other handhelds: The developers had ONE specific hardware spec to follow - year after year. All tools primed for this particular setup. The advantage of this in regards to lifespan of the device simply can not be exaggerated.

And what regular PC game would you want to play on this device? May I remind you that you must take into account the extreme downscale of the screen dimensions here. Regular sized text scaled down from a PC display dimension will be next to impossible to see on this screen without a magnifying glass. Menus, item descriptions, written dialogue all run the obvious risk of simply being impossible to see properly.

So I'm in on a bet on this: The market will see this as yet another attempt to breath new life into an old market segment that's pretty much died unless your name is Nintendo. It needs games suitable for a handheld, and it needs a SOLID market penetration for that to happen. And what are the odds for that...
We shall see, but I am no optimist on this one.


Last edited by Beamboom on 11 June 2021 at 5:58 pm UTC

Quoting: BeamboomFrom a regular consumers point of view I believe this will be a handheld gaming device just like all its predecessors, with its unique pros and cons.

I already own over 300 games that run on it.

Quoting: BeamboomAnd what regular PC game would you want to play on this device? May I remind you that you must take into account the extreme downscale of the screen dimensions here.

Well, that's a good question and in the end would need trying. My favorite genre, point and click, comes to mind though.

Quoting: BeamboomSo I'm in on a bet on this: The market will see this as yet another attempt to breath new life into an old market segment that's pretty much died unless your name is Nintendo. It needs games suitable for a handheld, and it needs a SOLID market penetration for that to happen. And what are the odds for that...
We shall see, but I am no optimist on this one.

I wouldn't bet against you.

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: BeamboomFrom a regular consumers point of view I believe this will be a handheld gaming device just like all its predecessors, with its unique pros and cons.

I already own over 300 games that run on it.

Quoting: BeamboomAnd what regular PC game would you want to play on this device? May I remind you that you must take into account the extreme downscale of the screen dimensions here.

Well, that's a good question and in the end would need trying. My favorite genre, point and click, comes to mind though.

Quoting: BeamboomSo I'm in on a bet on this: The market will see this as yet another attempt to breath new life into an old market segment that's pretty much died unless your name is Nintendo. It needs games suitable for a handheld, and it needs a SOLID market penetration for that to happen. And what are the odds for that...
We shall see, but I am no optimist on this one.

I wouldn't bet against you.

Still... Could it be worst than playing on a mobile device with the Steam Link app? In my personnal experience, Witcher 3's menus and texts are just a little too small on my phone's 5.6" screen in 720p, but it's playable. Isn't it going to be better on a 8" screen 720p? But your point is valid... I'm just wondering.


Last edited by Mohandevir on 11 June 2021 at 6:31 pm UTC

I agree with all the points. But i would add 2 points:

- revised Big Picture interface:
The actual version get the job done but it seems like a interface from the last decade. I think we need something fresher and and easier to navigate.

- Steampal "certification" program
A certified game could have a pre-ajusted settings for the steampal hardware. Just hit play like a console.

I want it to have a pony!

For $400 I would be VERY interested to buy a device like this:

- 7-8" 1080p (w FreeSync)
- DHMI port for TV output
- USB-C (charging, 3.1 data port)
- WIFI5 + Bluetooth
- 8GB of RAM
- 128GB+ MVME (multiple options?)
- Good battery life
- Expected controller features (rumble etc)

Software:

- Netflix 1080p
- Controller mode (Wii U?!?)
- Games should come with optimal presets / pre-cached
- Proper UI scaling and upscaling in games

Quoting: EikeI already own over 300 games that run on it.

Yeah that is as far as I can tell the one single argument for it. But the question remains: What PC game would someone with a full gaming rig at home (who I would presume is the case for any gamer with a solid Steam library) rather play on the portable? Because that's the real scenario here. What would we prefer to play on the small screen?

Sure, if on travel or holidays one could imagine wanting a unit like that. But would we really purchase one for those occasions where we sit on a bus or sleep at a hotel? Wouldn't we then rather just buy a game on our mobile phone for that temporary occasion? It's not like there is a lack of options.

If there's one case where I wish to be proven wrong, it's this one. I would love to see the resurrection of portable gaming consoles. I loved my PSP to bits. It was a machine I could not wait to play on again. A machine where I marvelled over the fact they were able to cram the entire Vice City into. A companion on all travels. An excuse in itself to travel!
But that was before mobile gaming took off. It was the PSP or nothing, I had no alternative. Would the average gamer invest in another gaming device when they already got a modern smart phone sitting right there?

Like I said, I'd love to be wrong. But my money is on that I'm not.

QuoteSome form of external streaming media support out of the box. Yes, I know, that the main point is gaming but we're long past the point of such single-use devices.

I thought the same thing before I bought a Nintendo Switch.

I'm glad that all it has is YouTube and would prefer it didn't even have that.

I think it only needs to serve one purpose, gaming, and it should do that seemlessly.

Quoting: BeamboomYeah that is as far as I can tell the one single argument for it. But the question remains: What PC game would someone with a full gaming rig at home (who I would presume is the case for any gamer with a solid Steam library) rather play on the portable? Because that's the real scenario here. What would we prefer to play on the small screen?

Pretty much everything. I'm tired of sitting in front of my desk, after a long day of work (CAD design).

Quoting: BeamboomSure, if on travel or holidays one could imagine wanting a unit like that. But would we really purchase one for those occasions where we sit on a bus or sleep at a hotel? Wouldn't we then rather just buy a game on our mobile phone for that temporary occasion? It's not like there is a lack of options.

Mobile gaming? You mean like in Android playstore games? Because these are two different breeds of players. I, for one, never ever considered mobile games. Candy crush, June's Journey and touch screens in general are not my kind of fix. My wife though... :)

Quoting: BeamboomIf there's one case where I wish to be proven wrong, it's this one. I would love to see the resurrection of portable gaming consoles. I loved my PSP to bits. It was a machine I could not wait to play on again. A machine where I marvelled over the fact they were able to cram the entire Vice City into. A companion on all travels. An excuse in itself to travel!
But that was before mobile gaming took off. It was the PSP or nothing, I had no alternative. Would the average gamer invest in another gaming device when they already got a modern smart phone sitting right there?

What about the Nintendo Switch? With the Wii U, Nintendo was on the verge of going under... The Switch saved them and it all started from scratch with a handfull of titles. I see no reason, why it couldn't be the same for the SteamPal and Witcher 3 won't look like it's in a perpetual fog, on this device.

Imo the real deal is marketing... Mass products are requiring mass marketing (including support). This thing must be available everywhere it's possible and be advertised on every inches of all visible walls. That's how it usually works.

Quoting: BeamboomLike I said, I'd love to be wrong. But my money is on that I'm not.

I'm not going to bet against you on this one. Even Nintendo failed on occasions. It's a competitive market.


Last edited by Mohandevir on 11 June 2021 at 8:52 pm UTC

Quoting: BeamboomYeah that is as far as I can tell the one single argument for it. But the question remains: What PC game would someone with a full gaming rig at home (who I would presume is the case for any gamer with a solid Steam library) rather play on the portable? Because that's the real scenario here. What would we prefer to play on the small screen?

My 30-inch monitor is awesome. It's big, clear, and has brilliant colour reproduction. What it isn't, by any stretch of the imagination, is comfortable to curl up with on the sofa, or in bed.

I love my mechanical keyboard and high-precision high-speed mouse. I've been using KB/M for gaming for some 30 years; I am comfortable and familiar with them. They are entirely terrible for racing games, fighting games, or any kind of platformer.

My high precision speakers and 10-inch subwoofer are amazing. For the spectacle and bombast of big explosions and dramatic cutscenes, or loud reggae, they can't be beaten. For the background music in Stardew Valley they are complete overkill.

My computer chair provides perfect support for sitting upright with arms extended in the correct position for hours on end, day after day, without any discomfort or injury. It actively resists any other configuration. Having your feet higher than your head with a controller? Forget about it.

QuoteWould the average gamer invest in another gaming device when they already got a modern smart phone sitting right there?

I'm probably not the average gamer; however, my smartphone has a 4.6“ diagonal and zero buttons. That's exactly what I want from Internet-in-my-pocket, but would be entirely unsuitable for any PC game I might want to play.

The speculated Steam handheld would likely be able to play some 80% of my Steam library without troubling my gaming rig, and would be the superior platform for a solid chunk of that independently of the convenience factor. I'm unlikely to try Stellaris on it, but I'd be willing to give Two Point Hospital a go if the touchscreen implementation is decent.

Only two things are important to me:

1. That the device is a great success, even if I don't like it.
2. That all releases without exception are also released for normal Linux.

Both must be.

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: BeamboomI was quite surprised to see this rather odd claim. Infancy?? I would rather say the direct opposite: That this is a market that's long past the adult years of its life span. Hand held consoles USED to be big. PSP, anyone?

We're not talking traditional consoles, we're talking what's basically a portable PC here.

I stand by what I said there. The market for portable PC gaming handhelds has nowhere near hit the proper mainstream yet.

Hell, to add to that, it wasn't until Valve made a huge push toward making more PC games playable via controllers. Many years went by where basically if you told people you played PC games with a gamepad, you'd be ridiculed. Or PC game players would bitch up a storm if a game basically was a 'crappy console port' and forced gamepad usage or had no advanced settings.

Now that Valve has done a lot of legwork, and yes the whole Steam Controller / couch play thing I think was ultimately leading up to this. They've been planning this for YEARS.

The problem with other handheld PCs, is that they SUCK. I have a GPD Win2 and my biggest complaint (besides not having clicky analog sticks) is the shear NOISE that comes out of it if I am just chilling and trying to do... well anything on it. I basically have to have noise canceling headphones to even remotely enjoy using it.

Quoting: Julius

Quoting: AppelsinThey need to be in *normal* stores. Everywhere. Being only on Amazon (and barely there even, at that) is what made the Steam Link and Controller a mere bog unicorn. You'd heard of it, but not really.

Experiences obviously differ from country to country, but in the EU the purchase of Steamlink and Controller worked perfectly fine via the Steam store itself.

Oh and funny to read your experience of Amazon in Norway, because at least in Germany even people that don't like Amazon grudgingly admit that ordering from them is fastest, most convenient and returning anything is super easy and customer friendly. So ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Well, I certainly wasn't allowed to buy one from them, and not for lack of trying 😂 Just goes to show how willy-nilly the "effor" in selling it was x) I mean, those of us who're actually interested usually get a hold of it of we want to, but that's not how you move units; it's how you make a niche product that will flop 🤷🏻‍♂️

Since Amazon doesn't actually operate out of any nordic country (yet), we usually have to order from the US (or UK or German) store, which usually leaves us at the mercy of whatever passes for Amazon "international" customer rights in the US. Thus having/wanting to return anything will leave us with a shipping cost for abroad, which isn't cheap.
In most Norwegian (and Swedish and Danish too, I guess?) online stores, you have 30-60 days "open purchase" with free returns and for the most part free shipping (at least for orders above ~100 EUR) (while the law requires a 14 day change-your-mind time, where it's up to the store who pays the return shipping fee).

That said, I'm aware that Amazon, in many countries, are actually considered to be a very good option. But does that say most about Amazon or the other stores? I think Amazon have been trying to step up their game here, since they want to establish here (at least in Sweden), and to be able to displace our normal stores (like they do wherever they go), they need to offer quite good prices, free and almost instant shipping, and free returns nearly no questions asked with really, really good customer support and warranty.


Last edited by Appelsin on 12 June 2021 at 7:06 am UTC

"Since Amazon doesn't actually operate out of any nordic country (yet), we usually have to order from the US (or UK or German) store, which usually leaves us at the mercy of whatever passes for Amazon "international" customer rights in the US"

https://www.amazon.se/

If this happens, and it takes off, there will be an incentive for developers to release native games. Native should have better performance, and, more importantly, better power efficiency.

Smartphones "killed" the portable console market. It submerged the market with casual audience easily satisfied with F2P crap reducing the hardcores to a small minority unworthy of big investments. And even then premium smartphones and accessories can rival any dedicated handheld console making very difficult to justify the existence of such a device.

In this market mess where the bounds between consoles, pc, Smartphones, tablets and whateverelse are blurred and not clearly defined, only the vendor with the clear personality could survive which of course is Nintendo with the switch.

If steam pal has to be a handheld console, it needs this. A clear and well defined personality that makes it distinct and allows it to deliver experiences that no other hardware can. You can replace a PS with an Xbox. And also a PC easily enough now. A vita you can replace it with a portable switch or a handheld pc. You just can't replace a switch with anything else. It's in a league of its own.

Imho that's not the kind of things Valve excels at. Quite the opposite. I would be surprised if their board (or whatever equivalent they have) really believe they are. If they release something and hope it's a success, I bet it will be a pc accessory, rather than full fledged console.

With proton sitting in a nice place, and stuff like Nvidia Now working excellently it's a good time to bring out something that allows PC gamers to survive this dire times of Hardware famine by exploiting the opportunity of the cloud. And after that, when cards come back to the stores, LAN streaming if one still wants it. A pal meant to amplify streaming experience, could really find the best market window right now with Chinese miners and global scalpers running wild. To bad it won't be able to escape the semiconductor crisis though.

PC Gamer has updated the page about the PC Game Show.
Previously: "And a message from Valve regarding Steam" original article
Now: "And a message from Valve regarding Steam Next Fest" article

So it will probably take a few weeks more until they show it/talk about it.

Quoting: MohandevirMobile gaming? You mean like in Android playstore games? Because these are two different breeds of players. I, for one, never ever considered mobile games. Candy crush, June's Journey and touch screens in general are not my kind of fix. My wife though... :)

You need to look into what's actually available for iPhone and Android. It's every single genre. There's RPGs, mmos, strategy games, adventure games, action, puzzle, you name it. Even ported PC games. For instance, Rockstar has put all their earlier Grand Theft Auto games on there. Republique (stealth, great game) is another example.

But this also boils down to what we actually want to play on small gaming devices. Back in the PSP days I had a TON of PSP games, all sorts. But my favourite games on that machine were indeed all small, quick, fun games that worked perfectly on a small device.

Quoting: MohandevirWhat about the Nintendo Switch? With the Wii U, Nintendo was on the verge of going under... The Switch saved them

This is why I wrote further up in my replies:

Quoting: BeamboomThe market will see this as yet another attempt to breath new life into an old market segment that's pretty much dead unless your name is Nintendo.

They are the one single instance that survived the fall of the market of handheld gaming devices. An amazing example, but there's an agreement that it was the insanely strong catalogue of IPs in their fold and their long standing rock solid reputation on portable gaming devices that made this to be even remotely possible.

Remember, Nintendo is primarily a handheld gaming company. That's their home turf. I'm not so sure that a bunch of PC games have that same ability to push handhelds. But we shall see!

Quoting: MohandevirImo the real deal is marketing... Mass products are requiring mass marketing (including support). This thing must be available everywhere it's possible and be advertised on every inches of all visible walls. That's how it usually works.

But the product must also resonate with the market. Sony pushed a hell of a massive marketing power behind the Vita. They had a 100% dedication on that device for years after the rest of us declared it dead in the water.
But they were not Nintendo. They didn't have that insanely strong brand for HANDHELD gaming devices. Even after the great success that were the PSP!


Last edited by Beamboom on 12 June 2021 at 4:28 pm UTC

Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: MohandevirMobile gaming? You mean like in Android playstore games? Because these are two different breeds of players. I, for one, never ever considered mobile games. Candy crush, June's Journey and touch screens in general are not my kind of fix. My wife though... :)

You need to look into what's actually available for iPhone and Android. It's every single genre. There's RPGs, mmos, strategy games, adventure games, action, puzzle, you name it. Even ported PC games. For instance, Rockstar has put all their earlier Grand Theft Auto games on there. Republique (stealth, great game) is another example.

But this also boils down to what we actually want to play on small gaming devices. Back in the PSP days I had a TON of PSP games, all sorts. But my favourite games on that machine were indeed all small, quick, fun games that worked perfectly on a small device.

Quoting: MohandevirWhat about the Nintendo Switch? With the Wii U, Nintendo was on the verge of going under... The Switch saved them

This is why I wrote further up in my replies:

Quoting: BeamboomThe market will see this as yet another attempt to breath new life into an old market segment that's pretty much dead unless your name is Nintendo.

They are the one single instance that survived the fall of the market of handheld gaming devices. An amazing example, but there's an agreement that it was the insanely strong catalogue of IPs in their fold and their long standing rock solid reputation on portable gaming devices that made this to be even remotely possible.

Remember, Nintendo is primarily a handheld gaming company. That's their home turf. I'm not so sure that a bunch of PC games have that same ability to push handhelds. But we shall see!

Quoting: MohandevirImo the real deal is marketing... Mass products are requiring mass marketing (including support). This thing must be available everywhere it's possible and be advertised on every inches of all visible walls. That's how it usually works.

But the product must also resonate with the market. Sony pushed a hell of a massive marketing power behind the Vita. They had a 100% dedication on that device for years after the rest of us declared it dead in the water.
But they were not Nintendo. They didn't have that insanely strong brand for HANDHELD gaming devices. Even after the great success that were the PSP!

I am pretty sure Nintendo could pick up a turd and sell it in a bag and Nintendo fans would still buy it. They have very loyal fans.

That said, I bought a switch because the concept of being able to dock and play on a large screen and then pick it up without losing where you were and go mobile is an awesome idea! Sadly as I don't think every Mario game is epic and I must have it, mine mostly gathers dust..

I think Valve will need to whitelist a lot more games for Proton before releasing the device.
You can't expect the users of a portable console to be tinkering with the Proton version or command options.
I hope they are already working on it. Otherwise it could become a source of many negative reviews.