Frozenbyte being the developer behind titles like the Trine series, Shadwen, Has-Been Heroes and the upcoming Starbase talks a little about Proton and future native Linux support. If you're not clear on what Proton and Steam Play are, be sure to check out our constantly updated dedicated page. It's a special compatibility layer for running Windows games and apps from Steam on Linux.
If you're not aware, Frozenbyte did previously have their games ported over to Linux but they eventually stopped after the release of Shadwen in 2016. The latest Trine 4 and their other titles don't have Linux version. With Starbase that's due to release tomorrow (July 29, 2021), there's a post on the Steam forum from a user asking about Linux support and Frozenbyte developer Jukka Larja (JLarja) replied on July 27 to explain it's not a priority:
With Proton being as good as it is, native support is not very high on our list. In fact (without actually trying the native versions on modern Linux distro) I would recommend Proton emulation over native versions for all the previous games we've released. Changes are you'll get better graphics quality, likely less trouble getting the game running and input working, and possible better performance too. For low-on-resources port Proton is simply superior.
If Linux gaming takes off (for example, because Steam Deck becomes a huge success), then we'll have a reason to consider not-so-low-on-resources port, which may (and probably does) change the picture somewhat. At the moment we have Xbox Series X/S higher on our porting targets list though (not for Starbase currently, but for other future projects).
I imagine there will be plenty more of this, especially for older ports where performance wasn't top and some that might have other issues. Proton isn't just something that's good to ensure Linux gamers and Steam Deck users get to play the latest games, it's also (as even porter Ethan Lee has pointed out), good for being an "essential preservation project" for older Windows games to keep them working nicely.
What is interesting to see is a mention of it being possibility if the Steam Deck is a success. People will argue on one side about there not being a point if Proton gets to the stage where Windows games can just run out of the box on Linux with Proton, but there is the other side that a native Linux build gives developers more control and flexibility on their games compared with handing it all over to Valve. Either way, that and more depends on how the Steam Deck goes.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
Mohandevir Jul 28, 2021
Last edited by Mohandevir on 28 July 2021 at 1:09 pm UTC
Let's face it the games are usually not a kind of software that targets for continuous delivery and after it's not profitable anymore it's left to rot. In this case Proton and Linux Runtime Containers could really help.
i was wondering why the artcile used the name of the engine instead of the company, never mind...
Quoting: kuhpunktI mean Trine 4 didn't even get a native release, so there's no reason to complain. It could't have gotten worse.Actually, they shouldn't be that far away from a native Linux version ... because the game was released for/on Stadia in March:
-> https://www.frozenbyte.com/2021/03/trine-4-the-nightmare-prince-now-out-on-stadia/
And Stadia runs with Linux ... apart from the framework adaptations that are required for Stadia. But well ... there is probably already a bigger gaming market under Stadia than for Linux ... or Google added a few bucks for the port ...
gradyvuckovic Jul 28, 2021
QuoteIn fact (without actually trying the native versions on modern Linux distro) I would recommend Proton emulation
That part in the quotes tells you everything you need to know.
They're not recommending Proton because they think it's better than anything they could do. They're recommending Proton because they don't care. Proton is the solution for game developers who don't care about whether or not their games run on Linux.
As the article said earlier:
QuoteIf you're not aware, Frozenbyte did previously have their games ported over to Linux but they eventually stopped after the release of Shadwen in 2016.
They stopped porting their games to Linux 5 years ago, well before Proton existed, let alone 'got good'.
Quoting: KuJoQuoting: kuhpunktI mean Trine 4 didn't even get a native release, so there's no reason to complain. It could't have gotten worse.Actually, they shouldn't be that far away from a native Linux version ... because the game was released for/on Stadia in March:
-> https://www.frozenbyte.com/2021/03/trine-4-the-nightmare-prince-now-out-on-stadia/
And Stadia runs with Linux ... apart from the framework adaptations that are required for Stadia. But well ... there is probably already a bigger gaming market under Stadia than for Linux ... or Google added a few bucks for the port ...
But the Stadia version doesn't change the fact that Trine 4 never got a Linux port on Steam. Nobody lost anything here.
Quoting: GuestActually their statement is worse in my opinion: native or not, no support at all for running their games on GNU/Linux by any means. I doubt anyone can take a platform seriously if there's no support for it.
A depressing statement. Not that Trine3 ever ran (at all) for me, but Trine and Trine2 were great.
What makes this even worse is that Trine 4 is on Stadia.
They stated they are using a translation layer on Stadia build, so it is not native Vulkan there.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/690640/discussions/0/1842440600620771518/?ctp=2#c4768721849830898948
Likely DXVK but they didn't disclose it.
So far games that are confirmed to be using DXVK on Stadia:
-YS8 ( Confirmed by Durante on Reddit )
-Metro Exodus ( DXVK is mentioned in credits screen, game is native Vulkan on Steam Linux build. It has raytracing on Steam Linux build also)
Google also said they will include translation layers in their SDK to ease porting process, for DX9/10/11.
That is also likely DXVK.
Last edited by Leopard on 28 July 2021 at 2:06 pm UTC
Quoting: kuhpunktBut the Stadia version doesn't change the fact that Trine 4 never got a Linux port on Steam. Nobody lost anything here.That is correct. I also didn't say that there would be a native Steam variant soon or at all due to the Stadia variant.
I was just expressing that they have very much done Linux work on Trine 4 and a native version might not be that far away, if only they wanted to ... yes, if they only wanted to. That's the crux of the story.
Quoting: CatKillerThey haven't said that they'll bother testing it in Proton themselves, nor fix their game if it doesn't work in Proton, so that's still the 10% tier of the sliding scale - assuming it ever works at all.
I would say that if this isn't issue in Proton and it's reported against Proton it will be passed by Valve to developer. Which means it will have a much bigger weight than just complains from few users on Linux. Especially with Steam Deck being a thing.
Quoting: ZlopezQuoting: CatKillerThey haven't said that they'll bother testing it in Proton themselves, nor fix their game if it doesn't work in Proton, so that's still the 10% tier of the sliding scale - assuming it ever works at all.
I would say that if this isn't issue in Proton and it's reported against Proton it will be passed by Valve to developer. Which means it will have a much bigger weight than just complains from few users on Linux. Especially with Steam Deck being a thing.
IF someone reports the bug to Valve, and IF Valve go through the effort of determining the cause, and IF they can persuade the developers to fix their game... eventually they might provide a fix
compared to
Before release a dev sees that an update doesn't work on one of their test targets and fixes it
One of these things is much more valuable than the other.
Quoting: CatKillerQuoting: ZlopezQuoting: CatKillerThey haven't said that they'll bother testing it in Proton themselves, nor fix their game if it doesn't work in Proton, so that's still the 10% tier of the sliding scale - assuming it ever works at all.
I would say that if this isn't issue in Proton and it's reported against Proton it will be passed by Valve to developer. Which means it will have a much bigger weight than just complains from few users on Linux. Especially with Steam Deck being a thing.
IF someone reports the bug to Valve, and IF Valve go through the effort of determining the cause, and IF they can persuade the developers to fix their game... eventually they might provide a fix
compared to
Before release a dev sees that an update doesn't work on one of their test targets and fixes it
One of these things is much more valuable than the other.
I definitely agree that this should be a responsibility of the developer.
Mohandevir Jul 28, 2021
Probably not, as it would probably anger some developers, but that could make Linux 100% compatible. Who knows, it might come to this if the Steam Deck becomes a big deal?
https://twitter.com/richgel999/status/1420132297353932804
(This time I don't even disagree completely)
Last edited by sub on 28 July 2021 at 2:46 pm UTC
QuoteIf Linux gaming takes off (for example, because Steam Deck becomes a huge success)Too nebulous a comment for me to put much stock in it. What is a ballpark numerical target for "huge success"? In the same thread it is mentioned that currently they don't test against Proton, don't plan on doing so upon the Steam Deck's release, and don't provide or plan on providing support for Linux gamers in the event any encounter issues. The only thing that will change that is "if Linux gaming community gets significant".
Frozenbyte hasn't provided macOS ports of Nine Parchments or Trine 4 either. Starbase does not appear to be getting a macOS port either: "Suffice it to say here that the size of Mac gaming market is not large enough."
I'm assuming Linux would need to approach near double digits in terms of percentage of Steam users, and even that, while historic, might be deemed insufficient.
Last edited by vector on 28 July 2021 at 6:18 pm UTC
Quoting: MohandevirI'm no specialist, but from what I read, there is also the possibility of optimizing the code for the Steam Deck to get that extra performance, in a native build, that you can't get with Proton. Am I wrong to think so?
yes, if you have the knowledge, which is most likley not the case
at least they should go FULL VULKAN, so we get the best perfomance on windows and proton
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