Valve has formally announced the Steam Deck, a portable handheld console with SteamOS

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: damarrinTo rain a little on everyone's parade (mine included), people on another gaming website I go to have been saying en masse how it's an instant Windows install for it to be even remotely useful. That's what the "general public" thinks, unfortunately :-(

I think realistically only a very tiny percentage of people are interested in installing OSes at all. And many of those who do, would prefer Linux. Regular user simply isn't interested or not even sure how to install an OS, no matter Linux or Windows. So I wouldn't worry about the above at all.

So if you want to analyze the "general public" - it's a major plus that device is coming with Linux preinstalled, because that's what they'll be using.

Yep. You want figures on roughly how many people will install a new O/S? How does roughly 1% sound?

Looking forward to hearing stories of people bricking their £500 toy trying to install Windows on it. The Win10 kernel is a bit better with some stuff these days, but it still needs drivers for a pretty high number of components. Basically installing Windows is much, much harder than installing Linux, even putting aside the 100Gb+ you need for it to actually work.

No thanks.

Quoting: fleskI would have reserved the medium model day one, but unfortunately it's not available in the EEA countries.

Quoting: slaapliedjeIt has been pointed out that the person driving the car in the image with the kid in the back seat at https://www.steamdeck.com/en/hardware is driving it wrong. That isn't how you drive a Tesla!

How so? I've only been driving a Tesla for a couple of weeks, but I can't tell what's wrong with the image.

EDIT: Assuming it's this image we're talking about: https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/steamdeck/images/factorio-cover.jpg

That looks perfectly normal to me.

Ha, I don't know a co-worker who owns a Tesla, demanded I post it somewhere. He rattled off something about it does driving correction and you basically only have to have your hands sort of touching the wheel or something. I was too busy reading specs on the steam deck or something else. Did think it was funny.

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: damarrinTo rain a little on everyone's parade (mine included), people on another gaming website I go to have been saying en masse how it's an instant Windows install for it to be even remotely useful. That's what the "general public" thinks, unfortunately :-(

I think realistically only a very tiny percentage of people are interested in installing OSes at all. And many of those who do, would prefer Linux. Regular user simply isn't interested or not even sure how to install an OS, no matter Linux or Windows. So I wouldn't worry about the above at all.

So if you want to analyze the "general public" - it's a major plus that device is coming with Linux preinstalled, because that's what they'll be using.

Yep. You want figures on roughly how many people will install a new O/S? How does roughly 1% sound?

Looking forward to hearing stories of people bricking their £500 toy trying to install Windows on it. The Win10 kernel is a bit better with some stuff these days, but it still needs drivers for a pretty high number of components. Basically installing Windows is much, much harder than installing Linux, even putting aside the 100Gb+ you need for it to actually work.

No thanks.

Would be hilarious if they didn't release drivers for it, and it ends up being how most people still view Linux (the hardware is lacking drivers, hard to use because resolution isn't right, etc).

Really hoping I get mine near my B-Day, that'd be sweet. I truly don't see most people installing Windows on this. There might be a small percentage of people that do. I honestly don't know why you would, unless someone thinks the game pass or whatever is worth it, but from my recollection, wasn't there a way to do that through Linux now anyhow?

Quoting: slaapliedjeWould be hilarious if they didn't release drivers for it, and it ends up being how most people still view Linux (the hardware is lacking drivers, hard to use because resolution isn't right, etc).

Or if Microsoft needed to go get their bootloader signed by Valve so that it would work with Secure Boot.. .

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: fleskI would have reserved the medium model day one, but unfortunately it's not available in the EEA countries.

Quoting: slaapliedjeIt has been pointed out that the person driving the car in the image with the kid in the back seat at https://www.steamdeck.com/en/hardware is driving it wrong. That isn't how you drive a Tesla!

How so? I've only been driving a Tesla for a couple of weeks, but I can't tell what's wrong with the image.

EDIT: Assuming it's this image we're talking about: https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/steamdeck/images/factorio-cover.jpg

That looks perfectly normal to me.

Ha, I don't know a co-worker who owns a Tesla, demanded I post it somewhere. He rattled off something about it does driving correction and you basically only have to have your hands sort of touching the wheel or something. I was too busy reading specs on the steam deck or something else. Did think it was funny.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's their so-called FSD features, which is an optional (expensive) extra that I haven't tried. I think that's rubbish too. Nothing wrong with driving a Tesla as a normal car.

Quoting: Purple Library GuyShe's older, but as far as I can tell the younger supposedly all tech-savvy generation is pretty much the same--they're just really comfortable clicking those icons, but they mostly don't look beneath that.

A bit off-topic, but a friend of mine was talking this past week how she was teaching students in high school and had to show them how to do complicated computer things like…creating a folder to put their project photos in (it was an art class), or selecting more than one file at a time. Apparently "digital native generation" doesn't automatically equate to "knows anything about computers beyond surface level"!

Quoting: Philadelphus

Quoting: Purple Library GuyShe's older, but as far as I can tell the younger supposedly all tech-savvy generation is pretty much the same--they're just really comfortable clicking those icons, but they mostly don't look beneath that.

A bit off-topic, but a friend of mine was talking this past week how she was teaching students in high school and had to show them how to do complicated computer things like…creating a folder to put their project photos in (it was an art class), or selecting more than one file at a time. Apparently "digital native generation" doesn't automatically equate to "knows anything about computers beyond surface level"!

I do IT support and I see a regular pattern that above a certain group (around 60) there is a dropoff in IT knowledge, but now also below 25 there is also a similar dropoff. Go close to 20 and below, and it is intense. I regularly have to talk people under 25 through IT basics, even on Windows. How to create and navigate folders, use Outlook, how to use the start menu, what a browser is and the difference between them, and so much more. The Pi Foundation has it right: education in IT is severely lacking these days and everyone should have to use a Pi and learn IT basics on it.

Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: Appelsin

Quoting: Tuxee

Quoting: Appelsin

QuoteCurrently it's limited to United States, Canada, European Union, and the United Kingdom with more regions becoming available in 2022.

Nothing for Norway then (or Switzerland, or Iceland or Luxemburg)? Or is this just a ploy to make us join the EU?

Last time I checked Luxembourg was still part of the European Union. Did they leave in silence?

They are? Then you've just corrected a misunderstanding I've had since early school xD I though they were outside, like us. I could have sworn they've always been mentioned in the same breath as the non-EU-member-trade-agreements we have and such things. But that may have been for other reasons then. TIL something basic x)

Luxemburg is not only one of the founding members of the EU, they are also one of the 4 official capitals of EU :-)

That's what I found yesterday, when I had to look it up 😂 Which only makes me thinking they weren't EU even better 🎯 😂 If making an error, make it big.

Quoting: Supay

Quoting: Philadelphus

Quoting: Purple Library GuyShe's older, but as far as I can tell the younger supposedly all tech-savvy generation is pretty much the same--they're just really comfortable clicking those icons, but they mostly don't look beneath that.

A bit off-topic, but a friend of mine was talking this past week how she was teaching students in high school and had to show them how to do complicated computer things like…creating a folder to put their project photos in (it was an art class), or selecting more than one file at a time. Apparently "digital native generation" doesn't automatically equate to "knows anything about computers beyond surface level"!

I do IT support and I see a regular pattern that above a certain group (around 60) there is a dropoff in IT knowledge, but now also below 25 there is also a similar dropoff. Go close to 20 and below, and it is intense. I regularly have to talk people under 25 through IT basics, even on Windows. How to create and navigate folders, use Outlook, how to use the start menu, what a browser is and the difference between them, and so much more. The Pi Foundation has it right: education in IT is severely lacking these days and everyone should have to use a Pi and learn IT basics on it.

I actually think those of us who were using computers before about, well, 1995, have an advantage. If your early computers used DOS, you know in your bones there is something under that slick GUI. You've watched the abstraction layers stack up. The younger set don't really grok that there's anything behind the curtain.

Quoting: Supay

Quoting: SpykerI also share this concern than most people will put Windows on it, even if Valve nailed Proton compatibility and performance, those who use the Microsoft Gamepass will want it on the device too and we can't do anything against that.

I think a lot of people will just play it as is, no different to any other handheld or console. If people want to install Windows, they can and probably will end up regretting it if it doesn't work exactly as hoped for. They probably will blame Valve too, but better that than it being a locked down device, and they can always go back to SteamOS setup as no warranty or secure feature tripped. As long as the majority are happy and it boosts the overall success, they can complain all they like in their reddit corners. Maybe we will even see some converted if they rage on a Windows install then realise SteamOS works well.

I agree to a point the second x game doesnt work they ll be on to support and demanding a refund, to previous comments no generally people do not want to install an os but mention linux and the response you ll get is if they know what linux is they go oh that thing for hackers and no lifers. If they dont know what it is the first thing they will say is "is it like windows". As this was the sort of thing i dealt with when my company rolled out linux back in 2008 when i was working in IT.

Checking out the Steam Deck page from Norway gives the following, happy message:

QuoteThis item is not available for reservation in your country

Valve is somewhat repeating the commercial and marketing success of the Steam Link and Controller. "Let's not sell this to people with lots of money, eager to spend!" Seriously...

Quoting: AppelsinChecking out the Steam Deck page from Norway gives the following, happy message:

QuoteThis item is not available for reservation in your country

Valve is somewhat repeating the commercial and marketing success of the Steam Link and Controller. "Let's not sell this to people with lots of money, eager to spend!" Seriously...

I understand why they are reluctant to send it to (big) parts of the world and I understand the pain of the (many) people living there, but countries like Norway really come as a surprise. The only explanation I got is that it's kind of a blind spot. They should find it way up in the list of richest countries - if they'd just take a look...

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: AppelsinChecking out the Steam Deck page from Norway gives the following, happy message:

QuoteThis item is not available for reservation in your country

Valve is somewhat repeating the commercial and marketing success of the Steam Link and Controller. "Let's not sell this to people with lots of money, eager to spend!" Seriously...

I understand why they are reluctant to send it to (big) parts of the world and I understand the pain of the (many) people living there, but countries like Norway really come as a surprise. The only explanation I got is that it's kind of a blind spot. They should find it way up in the list of richest countries - if they'd just take a look...

It's probably because we're not in the EU, but neither is the UK, so I don't know why they couldn't make an exception for us too. Norway is subject to the same certifications and requirements on consumer electronics as the rest of the EU, so there's no additional red tape either.

Quoting: fleskIt's probably because we're not in the EU, but neither is the UK, so I don't know why they couldn't make an exception for us too. Norway is subject to the same certifications and requirements on consumer electronics as the rest of the EU, so there's no additional red tape either.

I could imagine UK is the first country (that doesn't count as enemy) a US citizen comes to mind when thinking of something outside the USA. (US citizens, please correct me if I'm wrong.)

Quoting: Supay

Quoting: Philadelphus

Quoting: Purple Library GuyShe's older, but as far as I can tell the younger supposedly all tech-savvy generation is pretty much the same--they're just really comfortable clicking those icons, but they mostly don't look beneath that.

A bit off-topic, but a friend of mine was talking this past week how she was teaching students in high school and had to show them how to do complicated computer things like…creating a folder to put their project photos in (it was an art class), or selecting more than one file at a time. Apparently "digital native generation" doesn't automatically equate to "knows anything about computers beyond surface level"!

I do IT support and I see a regular pattern that above a certain group (around 60) there is a dropoff in IT knowledge, but now also below 25 there is also a similar dropoff. Go close to 20 and below, and it is intense. I regularly have to talk people under 25 through IT basics, even on Windows. How to create and navigate folders, use Outlook, how to use the start menu, what a browser is and the difference between them, and so much more. The Pi Foundation has it right: education in IT is severely lacking these days and everyone should have to use a Pi and learn IT basics on it.

I think of it sort of like Hunting / Preparing / Cooking food. Like there are generations, maybe a few before mine, where mankind as a whole knew how to hunt, prepare and cook their own food, as occasionally it was required to survive. Same thing with computers, the generation right before mine grew up having to purchase a kit to build their own computers. I started my computing knowledge young, but it wasn't like I needed a soldering iron before inserting the floppy disk. But still had to deal with Atari DOS, knowing that I can load .com and .exe files, and figuring out on Strip Poker, that if you reverse the file names, they'll also be in reverse order as you play! (okay, I didn't figure that one out, at the time the copy we got of the game already had the pictures reversed, and I felt the need to figure out how to fix it! Felt weird to have to win for them to put their clothes back on!)

This brings up the 'people will just install Windows on it'. sure there'll be some people who do that, but I don't think many will (assuming SteamOS 3.0 works really well and doesn't have weird incompatibilities, or crashes.) Many simply won't realize 'it's a mini-PC' means they can just plug in a USB Stick, Keyboard, Mouse, Monitor and install Windows. They'll just think 'cool, I can play Steam games with it.'

Quoting: AppelsinChecking out the Steam Deck page from Norway gives the following, happy message:

QuoteThis item is not available for reservation in your country

Valve is somewhat repeating the commercial and marketing success of the Steam Link and Controller. "Let's not sell this to people with lots of money, eager to spend!" Seriously...

My understanding is that it's all because they fundamentally aren't a hardware retailer. Those would have distribution centres in most countries they do business in, and agreements with brick-and-mortar shops to cover things like returns and revenue sharing. And a bunch of people employed specifically to handle logistics.

Valve doesn't have any of that. They're a shop that sells software. They've got a couple of empty rooms in the countries that they have developers in where they can store boxes, and they get the postman to take them from there and deliver them to customers.

It's why they tried to get other people to make Steam Machines, why they're content to sell limited numbers of the premium Index, and why they're so relaxed about other companies making Steam Decks. If they want to sell as many units of the Steam Deck as they can they'll need to get all the trappings of a hardware retailer; otherwise they'll be limited to just selling a few units in a handful of countries.

Quoting: CatKillerIt's why they tried to get other people to make Steam Machines, why they're content to sell limited numbers of the premium Index, and why they're so relaxed about other companies making Steam Decks. If they want to sell as many units of the Steam Deck as they can they'll need to get all the trappings of a hardware retailer; otherwise they'll be limited to just selling a few units in a handful of countries.

Couldn't they just sell 'em on Amazon and let Amazon's warehouses handle the logistics?

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: CatKillerIt's why they tried to get other people to make Steam Machines, why they're content to sell limited numbers of the premium Index, and why they're so relaxed about other companies making Steam Decks. If they want to sell as many units of the Steam Deck as they can they'll need to get all the trappings of a hardware retailer; otherwise they'll be limited to just selling a few units in a handful of countries.

Couldn't they just sell 'em on Amazon and let Amazon's warehouses handle the logistics?

Looking forward to see how they will handle the manufacturing process... Because selling millions of units is exactly what Gabe Newell is wishing for. At least, he said so.


Last edited by Mohandevir on 21 July 2021 at 8:44 pm UTC

The first generation Steam Deck looks to be a great device, and I think it will sell reasonably well, but if the publishers of Baldur's Gate 3, Control Ultimate Edition, Disco Elysium - The Final Cut, Doom Eternal, Hades, Ni no Kuni Wrath of the White Witch Remastered, and Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order (amongst others) don't officially support Proton (not to be confused with Valve or the community supporting those games in the publishers' stead) or otherwise offer and support native Linux ports once the Steam Deck has been released, I won't feel like the needle has truly moved that much.

Baldur's Gate 3 is using Vulkan already, so they can make a native version with less hassle than others.