Seems the Valve Steam Deck has been impressing people with some hands-on time

When I was watching the guy from Tested asking about Windows and complaining about third-party launchers and loading times due to shader compiling, I though to myself jeez, this guy doesn't really understand what Steam Deck is. But maybe that's exactly what the wider audience will see? And that got met worried.

Valve keeps repeating that "it's a PC", and it will run anything that a PC can run. And I guess that is technically correct, but is it sending the wrong message, and unintentionally promising more than it can deliver?

I really believe that the idea is that most Steam Decks will run SteamOS and not Windows. It would just not make sense to put so much effort into Linux if you would expect otherwise. But it is also going to be picked up by a lot of Windows gamers, who don't know or care about Linux.

Proton is a great piece of software, but it is not perfect. Even taking into account that they are working on support for popular anti-cheat schemes, and rumored to be working on the video codec problem, there are still games that simply do not work, be it due to esoteric DRM schemes, or something else.

Also there are quite a few Linux ports that perform badly, or are not compatible with Windows save games, or offer no cross-platform multiplayer. All of that would be very hard to navigate for somebody never exposed to Linux gaming before, and I am afraid it can backfire if expectations are not set properly.

... they confirmed that there will be some new API that developers will be able to hook into that will tell games if they're being run on the Steam Deck ...

So Windows only developers will be able make sure it runs on the SteamDeck with Proton properly but they ignore the Linux desktop or won't recognize problems with it..... Well, this statement is at least a big concern from my side that it might work well for the SteamDeck but may actually be a drawback for Linux desktop gaming.

New API? I wonder, what will it be?
In my impression developers just need to target WIN32 API releasing for Windows and Valve will do the "magic". Well, that and Vulkan is preferable. At least Valve has said as much…

Well to be honest in order to fulfil "that will tell games if they're being run on the Steam Deck" that API could be just /etc/os-release :-)

There is no "/etc/os-release" on Windows. Not even "/etc".
But I guess, a new function in Steam API returning 0 or 1 on whether it is a Steam Deck will suffice.

I wish they had invited either you, Phoronix or someone from the Linux/FOSS community to check out the Steam Deck. I'd love to see them go out to the desktop and run Gimp or Inkscape, or run pacman so we can see what it's got installed. It is clearly obvious that neither LTT nor Tested are very familiar with Linux.

I also am very curious, will a Steam game purchase from within the Steam Deck continue to be recorded to the developers as a Linux purchase? I remember the discussion around this when Proton first debuted, and we learned that Windows purchases from Steam on Linux and played via Proton are recorded as Linux purchases. I always want to make sure the developer knows that I'm running under Linux for what that might be worth.

I was actually thinking - If Steam Deck becomes a mega-success, and Valve remains reasonable with respect to privacy and respecting their customers, then maybe they could diversify in the future and produce a SteamOS mobile phone. There are so few choices for phones nowadays that aren't glorified spying devices for their Big Tech masters. I would *jump* on a non-invasive, open-technology smartphone *so fast*.

Maybe something like this? https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/
I don't think Valve should go in that direction, it would distract them from better-suited niches.

... they confirmed that there will be some new API that developers will be able to hook into that will tell games if they're being run on the Steam Deck ...

So Windows only developers will be able make sure it runs on the SteamDeck with Proton properly but they ignore the Linux desktop or won't recognize problems with it..... Well, this statement is at least a big concern from my side that it might work well for the SteamDeck but may actually be a drawback for Linux desktop gaming.

This API is not for "Oh, I'm running on Steam Deck, run the code which fixes all those Linux-specific bugs." It is more for developers to understand that there's less power, and a smaller screen in use. Valve's insistence that Proton will support 100% of Steam's library when the Steam Deck arrives is the alleviation of your Linux desktop gaming concerns.

If worse comes to worst, I would be greatly surprised if a game which works well on the Steam Deck and not on the Linux desktop couldn't be fooled into thinking it was running on a Steam Deck on your desktop.

New API? I wonder, what will it be?
In my impression developers just need to target WIN32 API releasing for Windows and Valve will do the "magic". Well, that and Vulkan is preferable. At least Valve has said as much…

Well to be honest in order to fulfil "that will tell games if they're being run on the Steam Deck" that API could be just /etc/os-release :-)

I don't think that windows game runing under proton can access linux filesystem.

Well to be honest in order to fulfil "that will tell games if they're being run on the Steam Deck" that API could be just /etc/os-release :-)

Z:\\etc\os-release

Wrong!
 
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Wine\Version

I don't think that windows game runing under proton can access linux filesystem.

It can (by default root directory is mounted as Z: drive). So a Linux-aware Windows virus can access ones "host" filesystem and, let's say, encrypt all the files it can grab.

WINE developers warn everybody: WINE is NOT a sandbox!


Last edited by Alm888 on 7 Aug 2021 at 9:08 pm UTC

Another one: https://youtu.be/QRlDEnhJHL0

These guys seem downright enthusiastic.

I cant be the only one that thinks using Witcher 3 in the thumbnail in the LTT Video is ironic? Is this intentional?

I was very positively surprised by the LTT video. He didn't mention "installing Windows" or the current anticheat situation.
I think it's great that we are at a point where people can be hyped about a Desktop Linux device without a constant "but it would be better with windows".

LLT have been covering Linux few times already in their videos, they're just not Linux gaming channel as such. Far from it.

So I would suppose Linus is more interested in seeing what Steam Deck can do before trying to install Windows on it. Which might mean that when LLT gets their own unit, there might be more Linux content on the channel than usual.

It can (by default root directory is mounted as Z: drive). So a Linux-aware Windows virus can access ones "host" filesystem and, let's say, encrypt all the files it can grab.

WINE developers warn everybody: WINE is NOT a sandbox!

Yes! This should be stated and re-stated over and over again. The danger is not just theoretical. Wine is proven to be both virus and ransomware compatible:

https://linuxscriptshub.com/wannacry2-0-ransomware-has-been-able-to-infect-linux-through-wine/
https://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2007-January/053719.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20090225163757/http://www.trustedsource.org/blog/186/Running-Windows-Malware-in-Linux

I was actually thinking - If Steam Deck becomes a mega-success, and Valve remains reasonable with respect to privacy and respecting their customers, then maybe they could diversify in the future and produce a SteamOS mobile phone. There are so few choices for phones nowadays that aren't glorified spying devices for their Big Tech masters. I would *jump* on a non-invasive, open-technology smartphone *so fast*.

Maybe something like this? https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/
I don't think Valve should go in that direction, it would distract them from better-suited niches.

Other than Valve also gathering a lot of data anyway, and Steam itself isn't open. So if Valve ever went in that direction, it wouldn't be the direction people think.

The problem with the Pine phone (and Librem 5 and similar) - They aren't big enough companies to make an impact. The mobile Linux running on those devices is currently at an almost unusable level. Also the Pine phone is pretty weak hardware compared to typical modern Android and Apple ones. (I know you don't need fantastic hardware to run Linux, but it is nice to have flagship-level display and cameras in the device, and higher specs also allow for a buttery-smooth experience.)

I wouldn't mind a bit of tracking in the gaming side of the phone (i.e. the Steam client), as long as the rest of the phone was regular Linux (with no tracking).

As it stands, the rest of the mobile phone world is dominated with really invasive telemetry from Big Tech, and there is practically no effective way to gain privacy. Running LineageOS, SailfishOS, or similar is the best one can hope for *as it stands* - and both of those are very hacky solutions out of the remit of regular consumers.

But Steam Deck can be much more then just small PC,... there is already talks about resuming gameplay on a different device, or ability to quickly switch between multiple games when using Steam Deck, all of that might be easier done if the game can communicate with the device. I mean we can only speculate what that API could do, but I doubt it's only for getting specs, even though just that would also be good. This device can only get better if the games don't treat it as "any other PC" where it doesn't even try to meet halfway and take into account the desired handheld/console-like experience.

So a game dev wants to ensure a polished and friction-free experience for their Steam Deck customers? That's swell. So which customers shouldn't get a polished and friction-free experience? All other customers using Wine? All other low-res customers? All other Steam customers?

If I'm using an Aya Neo, should I not get consideration just because I'm using Windows? If I'm running SteamOS on a low-res laptop, or a low-performance high-res laptop that's using integer scaling, and for sure I'm using a controller because gaming on a laptop sucks donkey balls, should I not get consideration because I can't hold the thing in my hands?

What about In-Home Streaming? Does that count as is on a deck because of the low-res screen and input method, or as isn't on a deck because of the massive power?

We've seen this dance before. Nvidia cards spoofed as AMD because game devs assume a particular manufacturer means certain functions will be available always. There being no Windows 9 because devs assumed that the string "Windows 9" could only ever refer to either Windows 95 or Windows 98. Faking the OpenGL version number because no number could ever be that long.

We need less of that jank, not a whole new generation. The more I think about it, the more terrible an idea it seems.

I was very positively surprised by the LTT video. He didn't mention "installing Windows" or the current anticheat situation.
I think it's great that we are at a point where people can be hyped about a Desktop Linux device without a constant "but it would be better with windows".

Agree this is a real plus so far. I still kind of expect a tidal wave of YT videos on how to install windows, but if this trend continues and people stick to using Linux on the device then this really could be a watershed moment for Linux desktop adoption.

I can honestly see some vendors shipping laptops installed with SteamOS-3.0 and the KDE desktop enabled as default in future.

I was very positively surprised by the LTT video. He didn't mention "installing Windows" or the current anticheat situation.
I think it's great that we are at a point where people can be hyped about a Desktop Linux device without a constant "but it would be better with windows".

Agree this is a real plus so far. I still kind of expect a tidal wave of YT videos on how to install windows, but if this trend continues and people stick to using Linux on the device then this really could be a watershed moment for Linux desktop adoption.

I can honestly see some vendors shipping laptops installed with SteamOS-3.0 and the KDE desktop enabled as default in future.

I expect those videos to end with "Windows on this device kinda sucks." But if people install Windows on it and genuinely prefer it, good for them. That's exactly what I'd want for installing Linux on all my computers. If it turns out that Valve haven't made Linux gaming compelling enough for the masses, so their customers are going to go through the hassle of installing fresh Windows on a device that comes with a different OS, then they aren't safe from Microsoft and they need to Linux harder.

I expect those videos to end with "Windows on this device kinda sucks."

why ? i mean watching this bit of the steamdeck hands on they state that the new UI is coming to windows shortly after. All things being equal the performance and compatibility should be higher on windows. I don't expect a mountain of people to do this honestly. But maybe when the novelty of using steamOS wears out perhaps.

https://youtu.be/jb6OWxORfY0?t=502

But if people install Windows on it and genuinely prefer it, good for them. That's exactly what I'd want for installing Linux on all my computers. If it turns out that Valve haven't made Linux gaming compelling enough for the masses, so their customers are going to go through the hassle of installing fresh Windows on a device that comes with a different OS, then they aren't safe from Microsoft and they need to Linux harder.

Sure. At that point im not sure what more valve could do anyway for those kinds of people. Some people are just never going to compromise on absolute performance and compatibility by running Linux.
I remember a thread on a windows centered forum a year or so back when proton was really taking off, some news articles were dropping and the conversation got onto how far Linux had come, people were impressed for sure but even then the consensus was that if there was even a less than 5% drop in performance no matter how much freer, secure and private Linux was they would not switch. Not to mention the lack of other game stores (although im sure that's something that can be improved if this thing takes off)

I do like the idea that the deck(linux) gets the UI first at least but there has to be some reason to use the deck other than technical inability or laziness over installing windows+steam.

I think that about 30% of people are die hard Windows users, likewise as Apple fanboys... they simply can't concieve there life without Windows. Millions will still install Windows on the Steam Deck, and there's nothing you can do about it.
But if, let's say, 50% of steam deck userbase remain on Linux, then it's mayor victory for Linux.

Linux will gain many users who don't know that they are using Linux, just like Andriod. Will those people even try desktop mode ? and if they do will that encourage them to drop windows and install it on their desktop PC ? I don't know. The best outcome for me personally is a focus on getting anti-cheat working and improvements to drivers. Will this even get devs interested in Linux when proton is available or will it just get them interested in the Steamdeck API for game UI adaptations and settings.

It's a Linux thing but at the same time, it's also not quite as much of a Linux thing to people outside of this community.

why ?

People have been trying to replicate the rough performance of the Steam Deck on existing hardware. When they've done so, they've found that using Linux gives better performance than using Windows. The review of the Onexplayer suggested that the Windows interface just wasn't that great without a keyboard and mouse. Windows updates are apparently brutal.

At that point im not sure what more valve could do anyway for those kinds of people.

Until they do whatever it is, they're essentially a Microsoft subsidiary.

Pre-installed Linux gaming is the product here, and the hardware is just the delivery vehicle. If Microsoft pulled the plug on them, for whatever reason, Valve need to find a way to keep their customers; that's their driving motivation.

I expect those videos to end with "Windows on this device kinda sucks."

why ? i mean watching this bit of the steamdeck hands on they state that the new UI is coming to windows shortly after. All things being equal the performance and compatibility should be higher on windows. I don't expect a mountain of people to do this honestly. But maybe when the novelty of using steamOS wears out perhaps.

https://youtu.be/jb6OWxORfY0?t=502

But if people install Windows on it and genuinely prefer it, good for them. That's exactly what I'd want for installing Linux on all my computers. If it turns out that Valve haven't made Linux gaming compelling enough for the masses, so their customers are going to go through the hassle of installing fresh Windows on a device that comes with a different OS, then they aren't safe from Microsoft and they need to Linux harder.

Sure. At that point im not sure what more valve could do anyway for those kinds of people. Some people are just never going to compromise on absolute performance and compatibility by running Linux.
I remember a thread on a windows centered forum a year or so back when proton was really taking off, some news articles were dropping and the conversation got onto how far Linux had come, people were impressed for sure but even then the consensus was that if there was even a less than 5% drop in performance no matter how much freer, secure and private Linux was they would not switch. Not to mention the lack of other game stores (although im sure that's something that can be improved if this thing takes off)

I do like the idea that the deck(linux) gets the UI first at least but there has to be some reason to use the deck other than technical inability or laziness over installing windows+steam.

For performance side, can help that Valve know specific hardware? So Everything (kernel, wine,...) can be built for ZEN2? It's not great benefit to performance, but in some games is wine equal and rerly better then Windows even now.