Seems the Valve Steam Deck has been impressing people with some hands-on time

why ?

People have been trying to replicate the rough performance of the Steam Deck on existing hardware. When they've done so, they've found that using Linux gives better performance than using Windows.

I think it will be close between the two systems. No normal user has the hardware available just yet to test side by side. I think in some cases Linux will definitely be faster, but time will tell. Perhaps Valves work with AMD to improve efficiency will help but wouldn't they just release those driver improvements on windows too.

The review of the Onexplayer suggested that the Windows interface just wasn't that great without a keyboard and mouse.

As just linked direct from Valve HQ, the exact same UI experience is coming to Windows 11 on the Steamdeck™. And im sure a scaled version of this is to arrive on Desktop/laptop and for BPM to be discontinued. Within 6 or so months of it's release there will be little to nothing to visually differentiate between a Steamdeck™ on Windows and Linux. you have said that's a good thing. But that's a matter of opinion depending on the idea of generating Linux exclusivity as a treat to keep people on the system.

Windows updates are apparently brutal.

Slow internet user here. So are frequent Arch Linux updates. So are continually refreshing, hundreds of MB Vulkan shaders updates for every game.

Until they do whatever it is, they're essentially a Microsoft subsidiary.

Pre-installed Linux gaming is the product here, and the hardware is just the delivery vehicle. If Microsoft pulled the plug on them, for whatever reason, Valve need to find a way to keep their customers; that's their driving motivation.

Yes of course and that can be done without Linux ultimately. They would have to buddy upto MS, pay a toll or try for native linux ports again (wait that's already been tried.) Or maybe move to a cloud streaming model.

Who knows how aggressive MS will be about proton and Windows 'emulation' in future, they have the power to make a new APi (DX13) that everyone uses and takes months to be compatible with proton. Im okay with playing a vast library of Native,DX11.DX12 games but those people who might be from a Windows or even console background might be scratching their heads a bit.

I don't expect Microsoft to be as petty as this though.

I don't think that windows game runing under proton can access linux filesystem.

It can (by default root directory is mounted as Z: drive). So a Linux-aware Windows virus can access ones "host" filesystem and, let's say, encrypt all the files it can grab.

WINE developers warn everybody: WINE is NOT a sandbox!

Thanks for info, i missed it.

Well to be honest in order to fulfil "that will tell games if they're being run on the Steam Deck" that API could be just /etc/os-release :-)

Z:\\etc\os-release

Wrong!
 
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Wine\Version

I don't think that windows game runing under proton can access linux filesystem.

It can (by default root directory is mounted as Z: drive). So a Linux-aware Windows virus can access ones "host" filesystem and, let's say, encrypt all the files it can grab.

WINE developers warn everybody: WINE is NOT a sandbox!

Does running Steam via Flatpak improve the situation ? What about Steam Linux Runtime, they are containerized games are they not ?

I think one of the great things about the steamdeck and SteamOS3.0 in general is the ability to run this as a separate OS where you don't also have all your personal files stored, perhaps either as a dual boot, isolated login or on a completely separate device.

The Steam client isn't exactly a model of privacy in itself by nature. There has been an increasing feature creep for for a while now. It's basically a glorified Discord with full system remote control access, audio & video desktop broadcast output. depending on what features you turn off. Im happy to use a steamOS device separately from my main PC be that a Steamdeck , SteamOS-3.0 console build.


Last edited by Lofty on 8 Aug 2021 at 12:19 am UTC

I expect those videos to end with "Windows on this device kinda sucks."

why ?

For one, because if you install Windows, and then install Steam's "new big picture == same interface as the Deck" on it, every time you start the device you'll still be booting into Windows and only then using your controller stuff (which Windows is not intended for) to start Steam. It'd be a pain.
Keeping SteamOS on, you boot and your games are right there.

My might get a steam deck, and turn it into a stream deck with OBS and soundux or something... hehe

Who knows how aggressive MS will be about proton and Windows 'emulation' in future, they have the power to make a new APi (DX13) that everyone uses and takes months to be compatible with proton. Im okay with playing a vast library of Native,DX11.DX12 games but those people who might be from a Windows or even console background might be scratching their heads a bit.

I don't expect Microsoft to be as petty as this though.

Microsoft has certainly always in the past been as petty as this. But that wouldn't IMO be a huge issue. It would take some time to get people to start using their fancy new DX13. It took years before there were noticeable amounts of games running DX12, and everyone agreed that DX12 was a thing that had a good reason to exist, for similar reasons to why Vulkan needed to exist. With the momentum Proton, DXVK etc. have currently (and the strength of Valve's motivation), they could probably get a DX13-->Vulkan thingie going before there was even any appreciable uptake. Particularly because developers would probably not be all that receptive to a DX13 basically just created to nobble the competition, and because if it was a rush job done for that reason it would probably suck.
They might get quicker uptake if it was really just DX12 version 1.2 with a few little jingle bells stuck to it . . . but then it would be really easy for Proton to adjust to it.

In general, I think it's at least as difficult for Microsoft to move the target, as it is for Valve to adjust their aim.


Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 8 Aug 2021 at 1:12 am UTC

I expect those videos to end with "Windows on this device kinda sucks."

why ?

For one, because if you install Windows, and then install Steam's "new big picture == same interface as the Deck" on it, every time you start the device you'll still be booting into Windows and only then using your controller stuff (which Windows is not intended for) to start Steam. It'd be a pain.
Keeping SteamOS on, you boot and your games are right there.

There is already an option to start up Steam when you log in and also to start Steam in big picture mode (obviously will be changed to whatever the new mode is called). So all the user has to do is set those two settings the first time and then they are good to go after that.

Also, it has a touch screen and two touchpads so navigating a UI shouldn't be difficult.

I expect those videos to end with "Windows on this device kinda sucks."

why ?

For one, because if you install Windows, and then install Steam's "new big picture == same interface as the Deck" on it, every time you start the device you'll still be booting into Windows and only then using your controller stuff (which Windows is not intended for) to start Steam. It'd be a pain.
Keeping SteamOS on, you boot and your games are right there.

There is already an option to start up Steam when you log in and also to start Steam in big picture mode (obviously will be changed to whatever the new mode is called).

Really? I had no idea. Well, scratch that point then.

I expect those videos to end with "Windows on this device kinda sucks."

why ?

For one, because if you install Windows, and then install Steam's "new big picture == same interface as the Deck" on it, every time you start the device you'll still be booting into Windows and only then using your controller stuff (which Windows is not intended for) to start Steam. It'd be a pain.
Keeping SteamOS on, you boot and your games are right there.

A truly minor inconvenience for those few committed to running Windows. If they have installed windows on the steam deck, they can probably manage to click using the built in mouse on a large steam icon on the desktop that boots directly into big picture mode. Heck, why am i even saying click ? they can touchscreen the icon and automatically boot into big picture mode (or whatever it is to be called) it could not be easier. (im assuming you know that booting into BP mode is an option in Steam).

It's actually possible to boot directly into steam on boot in windows too just like the Linux steamos/compmgr session login option on Linux. That doesn't require much tinkering but if someone is running windows on the Steamdeck then they probably want to be able to tap to launch all the other stores too so will probably just resort to pressing their finger on the icon. It might be better on Linux if Valve have found a nice way of using the EA/Origin client without needing to goto desktop to run the respective 3rd Party clients and all the trouble was removed from this process just like on console. That would be slicker than windows without a doubt.

I didn't say it would be better but that's a price those dedicated to windows will happily do in order to run a wider catalogue of games and software at potentially better performance. I don't expect too many people to do this initially at least.

Wine is proven to be both virus and ransomware compatible

That sounds like a bullet point on the weirdest advertising flyer ever: "Virus and ransomware compatible!"

From what's been shown, I'm pretty glad our unit has been reserved at the top-end for the anti-glare etched glass which very clearly makes quite a noticeable difference.

For my part, I didn't pick the higher model for the glass or the extra storage. The biggest, prettiest games I'm going to be playing on my gaming rig or streaming from my gaming rig, so storage isn't that big a deal. I strongly suspect that they're making a loss on the cheapest SKU, and only really breaking even on the middle one. Since I'd like everyone selling good Linux hardware to make a profit from doing so, so that they keep doing it, the highest option was an easy choice.

That was part of my consideration as well*, but it's also nice to have that confirmation that the glass is nicer to help justify the spend. (Though I also got incredibly fortunate with the timing, having gotten a job offer just days before which meant I could afford to reserve the top-end unit.)

*Though the storage will certainly be nice for loading up a whole bunch of small, light games for airplane rides or family holiday visits without having to fiddle with microSD cards—I could probably fit 75% of the games in my library in that much space easily.

I expect those videos to end with "Windows on this device kinda sucks."

why ?

For one, because if you install Windows, and then install Steam's "new big picture == same interface as the Deck" on it, every time you start the device you'll still be booting into Windows and only then using your controller stuff (which Windows is not intended for) to start Steam. It'd be a pain.
Keeping SteamOS on, you boot and your games are right there.

There is already an option to start up Steam when you log in and also to start Steam in big picture mode (obviously will be changed to whatever the new mode is called). So all the user has to do is set those two settings the first time and then they are good to go after that.

Also, it has a touch screen and two touchpads so navigating a UI shouldn't be difficult.

You can also replace the Windows desktop itself with the Steam interface (basically what those Windows Steam machines did back then).

I was actually thinking - If Steam Deck becomes a mega-success, and Valve remains reasonable with respect to privacy and respecting their customers, then maybe they could diversify in the future and produce a SteamOS mobile phone. There are so few choices for phones nowadays that aren't glorified spying devices for their Big Tech masters. I would *jump* on a non-invasive, open-technology smartphone *so fast*.

Custom Android ROMs are a thing.

And no, "Linux phones" aren't a real alternative,
1. There is not much interest into making applications work on that, since better alternatives already exist,
2. Security compared to Android is abysmal.

Damn, why don't we already see a (real) Doom 2016/Eternal port? :D

No matter how good it runs with Proton. id Software, even if
not the same company anymore, had a tradition of Linux ports.
Now they're getting show cased a lot with Steam Deck.

Come on guys. Get us a port already.

Microsoft has certainly always in the past been as petty as this. But that wouldn't IMO be a huge issue. It would take some time to get people to start using their fancy new DX13. It took years before there were noticeable amounts of games running DX12, and everyone agreed that DX12 was a thing that had a good reason to exist, for similar reasons to why Vulkan needed to exist. With the momentum Proton, DXVK etc. have currently (and the strength of Valve's motivation), they could probably get a DX13-->Vulkan thingie going before there was even any appreciable uptake. Particularly because developers would probably not be all that receptive to a DX13 basically just created to nobble the competition, and because if it was a rush job done for that reason it would probably suck.
They might get quicker uptake if it was really just DX12 version 1.2 with a few little jingle bells stuck to it . . . but then it would be really easy for Proton to adjust to it.

In general, I think it's at least as difficult for Microsoft to move the target, as it is for Valve to adjust their aim.

I don't think the new MS strategy has much interest in doing so now. MS has struggle to keep compatibility which have consequence on they capacity to be innovative, don't think they want to add to much weird stuff to make their work harder for later. And if their want to do now, it's too late, Wine already has compatibility with most older titles, which is the important thing. New software may need a new API but today, it's more and more easy to support multiple architecture/api/OS/etc… on software dues to relying on framework and engine that does most of the compatibility work.

I think that about 30% of people are die hard Windows users, likewise as Apple fanboys... they simply can't concieve there life without Windows. Millions will still install Windows on the Steam Deck, and there's nothing you can do about it.
But if, let's say, 50% of steam deck userbase remain on Linux, then it's mayor victory for Linux.

In these 30%, how many have an android or iphone ? How many use nintendo, microsoft or sony gaming console ? How many are geek enough to tried raspberry pi (windows exist now for raspberry pi, but it does not really make much sense for a normal raspberry user) ?
In many, many devices, Windows is not installed by default and it's not possible to install it. As the steam deck will run the same game as a Windows and claim to be a PC, it's right there will be some people to try it, but if the software is convenient enough and the gaming experience efficient, i don't see much interest at switching the software. We have to keep in mind, that's it's not intended to replace a desktop or laptop, so, no much reason to have the same ui experience has your standard computer.

Windows will:

• not being optimised for it.
• may not have some driver (it's a specific GPU, are we sure controller will work out of the box ?)
• may be complicated to boot. We are not sure what will be the uefi. We can expect Valve will bring us an "open machine" but it's not sure.

Last edited by inkhey on 8 Aug 2021 at 9:49 am UTC

Windows also uses an obscene amount of hard drive space, which is definitely an issue on this device.

I expect those videos to end with "Windows on this device kinda sucks."

why ? i mean watching this bit of the steamdeck hands on they state that the new UI is coming to windows shortly after. All things being equal the performance and compatibility should be higher on windows. I don't expect a mountain of people to do this honestly. But maybe when the novelty of using steamOS wears out perhaps.

It should be noted that having the UI doesn't mean the complete experience, such as being able to connect Bluetooth devices and Wifi though the UI, being able to control sound devices, and being able to manage display brightness and such from the UI, and some other stuff like FPS and TDP control (amongst other things). It's likely to amount to being as simple as how Big Picture mode was (relative to just the aspect of selecting games, and the browser stuff) as the other stuff comes through deeper integration, and with other components bundled with the OS. This was the same regarding SteamOS and Big Picture in the past.

Damn, why don't we already see a (real) Doom 2016/Eternal port? :D

No matter how good it runs with Proton. id Software, even if
not the same company anymore, had a tradition of Linux ports.
Now they're getting show cased a lot with Steam Deck.

Come on guys. Get us a port already.

Zenimax said no, after they bought id. I'm not sure that they're that likely to change their minds on developing for Linux now that they're owned by Microsoft.


Last edited by CatKiller on 8 Aug 2021 at 11:34 am UTC

Damn, why don't we already see a (real) Doom 2016/Eternal port? :D

No matter how good it runs with Proton. id Software, even if
not the same company anymore, had a tradition of Linux ports.
Now they're getting show cased a lot with Steam Deck.

Come on guys. Get us a port already.

Id used to open source their game engines after a while. Do they not do that anymore either?

Id used to open source their game engines after a while. Do they not do that anymore either?

Nope.

Rumor is that Zenimax is actually working on a way to travel back in time and prevent any source releases from id from ever having taken place.

Good first look video. Being able to see the difference with the etched glass makes me glad I reserved the 512GB model. Although I've never been a big console gamer and definitely lean heavily towards keyboard+mouse gaming, I'm really looking forward to getting my Steam Deck...especially now that I know I can pair my bluetooth noise canceling headphones to it. It'll make the perfect travel gaming device.