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PayPalAs we all know the Steam Machines didn't go anywhere and Valve have clearly learned a lot from it, as they spoke about in a recent video from IGN (as IGN continue to have the exclusives on this).
Valve are no stranger to hardware at this point of course. They didn't just do the failed Steam Machines but also produced the Steam Link, Steam Controller, worked with HTC for the original Vive and they also have their Valve Index VR headset too. By now, they have hopefully enough experience to know exactly what they need to make a success out of the Steam Deck and so far everything is looking rather positive on that.
Designer Greg Coomer actually mentioned how "we actually did start out by working with other companies and seeing what we could make happen with partnerships, but it became clear we started prototyping and more and more we just started creating devices to solve problems for customers ourselves and really the Steam Deck feels like the culmination of a lot of that earlier work". Coomer goes on to directly mention their earlier stuff like the Steam Machines, Steam Link and also the Steam Controller.
Scott Dalton, another Valve designer, also mentioned how early prototypes of the Steam Controller had a screen too and they wanted it to be programmable, and they thought about having Steam Link hardware with a controller but the technology at the time just wasn't good enough and they faced lots of hurdles with it and they continued prototyping and talking about it for some time. So the Steam Deck really is a device they've had in mind for years.
Proton was mentioned too with Designer Lawrence Yang mentioning how it was "really important for us to be able to talk directly to developers, and say 'hey look the Steam Deck runs your game you don't have to port'" with Coomer following up to mention how it's been a "chicken and egg problem with the Steam Machine of the content being there, we were trying to get games on Linux but then you had to have this crucial amount to get over this hump but then without the user base and you get into this bad cycle. That led us down this path of Proton now there's all these games that run so you've crossed over that hump and you're on the good side of it".
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QuoteThat led us down this path of Proton
Yeah, "down" seems fit for me...
Still excited for what will happen this time.
1 Likes, Who?
Quoting: EikeQuoteThat led us down this path of Proton
Yeah, "down" seems fit for me...
Still excited for what will happen this time.
Let's also not forget that while Steam Machines were a failure, Proton wasn't available at that time and WINE was simply no match.
Last edited by sub on 2 August 2021 at 9:46 am UTC
12 Likes, Who?
I'm really hoping that we'll see the end of Linux "ports" with this, and instead actually get games to develop with it as a native target and not something you need to hire a consultancy firm to develop as an afterthought.
Nothing at all against the likes of Aspyr or Feral, but since they're not the original developer they just can't guarantee to keep parity and pace with the "real" version of the game, and that can actually hurt the Linux gamers when their friends are on other platforms.
Had times where I've had to switch away from the native builds simply because a patch released recently and the port hadn't had time to be updated in time for when friends wanted to play, and once that happens then it usually ends up easier to just stay on the Proton-wrapped Windows version instead of flip-flopping between the two.
Nothing at all against the likes of Aspyr or Feral, but since they're not the original developer they just can't guarantee to keep parity and pace with the "real" version of the game, and that can actually hurt the Linux gamers when their friends are on other platforms.
Had times where I've had to switch away from the native builds simply because a patch released recently and the port hadn't had time to be updated in time for when friends wanted to play, and once that happens then it usually ends up easier to just stay on the Proton-wrapped Windows version instead of flip-flopping between the two.
7 Likes, Who?
Isn't the Steam Deck also just a Steam Machine? It's a PC with SteamOS preinstalled.
3 Likes, Who?
Quoting: subQuoting: EikeQuoteThat led us down this path of Proton
Yeah, "down" seems fit for me...
Still excited for what will happen this time.
Let's also not forget that while Steam Machines were a failure, Proton wasn't available at that time and WINE was simply no match.
That one was the defeat condition for SM. It still is for the Deck unless they can bribe or work around EAC somehow.
Then the Deck needs also to be "usable" enough with games with poor GUIs. The annoying situations where the dev just took for granted that you have m+k in additiona to a controller. From having the mouse arrow annoyingly sit in the middle of the play screen (and no easy way to tell Steam that you need mouse control just to get rid of that), to your average useless cancer launcher, just being impossibly tedious to work through and always sitting behing the "launch game" button and your damn game.
0 Likes
Quoting: kuhpunktIsn't the Steam Deck also just a Steam Machine? It's a PC with SteamOS preinstalled.
It's a Steam Machine... with huge parts of the Steam library working, dedicated hardware people can aim for, and for mobile gaming. So... rather no. :)
2 Likes, Who?
Quoting: kuhpunktIsn't the Steam Deck also just a Steam Machine? It's a PC with SteamOS preinstalled.
Custom APU, handheld, new OS adapted to form-factor, no man in between as Valve build the whole thing whereas for Steam Machine I believe Valve only released the OS. Quite different I'd say.
5 Likes, Who?
I still think the main reason steam machines failed (apart from the lack of marketing) was Valve rushing SteamOS without "fully" understand Linux and it's limitations before, which it's a thing that's not the case nowadays.
That's why I think steamdeck will be a way more successful project
Last edited by BielFPs on 2 August 2021 at 11:42 am UTC
That's why I think steamdeck will be a way more successful project
Last edited by BielFPs on 2 August 2021 at 11:42 am UTC
2 Likes, Who?
Same video every time... Just holding Deck in hands, but not showing it lol.....
Only this stupid gameplay clips witch we have seen 100 times already.
Just show us lol!
Only this stupid gameplay clips witch we have seen 100 times already.
Just show us lol!
0 Likes
Quoting: dindonQuoting: kuhpunktIsn't the Steam Deck also just a Steam Machine? It's a PC with SteamOS preinstalled.
Custom APU, handheld, new OS adapted to form-factor, no man in between as Valve build the whole thing whereas for Steam Machine I believe Valve only released the OS. Quite different I'd say.
Well, Valve provided the OS and the general dimensions and performance metrics they wanted the Steam Machine consoles to aim for. So they wouldn't have someone just stuff a cheap NUC into a fancy case and call it a day.
If they'd had Proton at that time I bet it would've been a completely different story in how successful it would've been.
Last edited by Ananace on 2 August 2021 at 11:44 am UTC
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Got mine preordered. Can't wait to play Skyrim or Red Dead Redemption 2 on the go...
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Quoting: dindonQuoting: kuhpunktIsn't the Steam Deck also just a Steam Machine? It's a PC with SteamOS preinstalled.
Custom APU, handheld, new OS adapted to form-factor, no man in between as Valve build the whole thing whereas for Steam Machine I believe Valve only released the OS. Quite different I'd say.
But it's still a PC with SteamOS.
0 Likes
Quoting: dindonSo, a better Steam Machine? :)Quoting: kuhpunktIsn't the Steam Deck also just a Steam Machine? It's a PC with SteamOS preinstalled.
Custom APU, handheld, new OS adapted to form-factor, no man in between as Valve build the whole thing whereas for Steam Machine I believe Valve only released the OS. Quite different I'd say.
0 Likes
i saw this video and honestly their explanation of the chicken and egg problem was an mess.
fortunatelly i already knew what they were talking about, otherwise i would be quite confused and un informed.
fortunatelly i already knew what they were talking about, otherwise i would be quite confused and un informed.
1 Likes, Who?
Quoting: HoriQuoting: subExactly. We've come a really long way since then. We started with "it most likely doesn't work on Linux" to "it most likely works on Linux" (unless ofc it has anticheat but that will soon be covered as well).Quoting: EikeQuoteThat led us down this path of Proton
Yeah, "down" seems fit for me...
Still excited for what will happen this time.
Let's also not forget that while Steam Machines were a failure, Proton wasn't available at that time and WINE was simply no match.
As an end-user, that's all i ever needed. And the fact it's still growing and improving, is such a good feeling. With the risk of sounding like a fanboy (which I try not to be), I really feel very well taken care of by Valve. Hopefully they will remain positive and beneficial for much longer into the future (cuz in my experience all companies tend to eventually disappoint and then even cause harm)
i wont be so optmistic about proton.
many games run, but if you look at the issue list on github, there are many issues still open not related to online games.
some issues were open 2 years ago (proton is 2 years old so those bugs may have lasted longer if you count then since wine)
we as linux gamers are optimistic because we are used to have nothing, so "for those who have nothing, half is double" but for normal folks who use windows, play on consoles and are used to have games working almost perfectly? those issues will not be tolerated.
recently i just figured out that lights dont work on resident evil 3:
compare this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_0MnP17XOU
to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_0MnP17XOU
and if you still couldnt figure out what is wrong, watch this:
https://youtu.be/Z1R1z9ipFnM
0 Likes
Quoting: MalThey say they can and will; I have no particular reason to doubt them.Quoting: subQuoting: EikeQuoteThat led us down this path of Proton
Yeah, "down" seems fit for me...
Still excited for what will happen this time.
Let's also not forget that while Steam Machines were a failure, Proton wasn't available at that time and WINE was simply no match.
That one was the defeat condition for SM. It still is for the Deck unless they can bribe or work around EAC somehow.
I'm more worried about the continuing existence of, you know, ten thousand little corner cases. There are still loads of games with little hiccups, games that don't run unless you hop up and down and then stand on your head while uttering a prayer to the Steamo Loas, and games without anti-cheat or anything that just don't run. The question is how much of all that they can clean up by launch time. If by the time they launch most of the remaining games with problems are older and not that popular it might be OK market-wise.
2 Likes, Who?
Quoting: kuhpunktIsn't the Steam Deck also just a Steam Machine? It's a PC with SteamOS preinstalled.Technically, yes. A really little one.
In terms of market success prediction, I'd say no, for reasons people have mentioned.
1 Likes, Who?
TheRiddick Aug 2, 2021
Quoting: dorronRed Dead Redemption 2 on the go
SkyrimSE, no problem.. RDR2? hmmmm...
Quoting: elmapulbut for normal folks who use windows, play on consoles and are used to have games working almost perfectly? those issues will not be tolerated.
IN MY EXPERIENCE, proton has more issues with OLDER games then newer. I can't tell you how many older games have had all sorts of random issues. Only the newer games that people play in numbers get real attention.
Here is some games with issues to illustrate my point. MESA/RADV, no idea about nvidia.
ELEX (requires workaround or gfx glitching)
Risen3 (same as above but crashes randomly often)
Max Payne 3 (tessellation bugged on RADV)
Operation Flashpoint 2 + Red River (needs gfw fix, but menu ctd, doesn't render).
NMS (people complain about random issues all the time)
The list goes on, basically Valve needs to address some backward compatibility with older games via proton more IMO.
Then we have all the anticheat stuff on top... for the most part broken with proton.
Last edited by TheRiddick on 2 August 2021 at 11:04 pm UTC
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Quoting: TheRiddickHere is some games with issues to illustrate my point. MESA/RADV, no idea about nvidia.
ELEX (requires workaround or gfx glitching)
Risen3 (same as above but crashes randomly often)
Max Payne 3 (tessellation bugged on RADV)
Operation Flashpoint 2 + Red River (needs gfw fix, but menu ctd, doesn't render).
NMS (people complain about random issues all the time)
The list goes on, basically Valve needs to address some backward compatibility with older games via proton more IMO.
Then we have all the anticheat stuff on top... for the most part broken with proton.
In my case with wine (no proton) and nvidia geforce gtx 1050:
elex runs ok - risen 3 (32bits) runs ok - max payne 3 (no test for now)
Last edited by mrdeathjr on 3 August 2021 at 2:40 pm UTC
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orochi_kyo Aug 3, 2021
This is hardware thought for everyone, not like that VR thing...
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