Take down a resurrected Maggie Thatcher in this upcoming Doom II campaign

Quoting: Purple Library GuyI think there's an irony here. You're fine with really blatantly overt politics. But, despite saying that what bugs you about the less-overt political writing is its deception, what you really don't like is its failure to deceive adequately. What you want is writing whose political leanings are sufficiently organically worked into the whole that you are in fact deceived and fail to notice what they are doing.

Heh, you know what this reminds me of?

Of people trying to claim there is a significance in the color of the curtain in one scene of a book with 700+ pages as a side note.
A bunch of overly excitable people high on their own outpouring of words. Not more, not less.

Of course you notice the hints in LoTR once you think about it. The languages, the use of "technology" only by the bad guys, Christianity, etc.
No need to write essays about it.

Despite you apparently believing that since I disagree with you I must have been hit on the head as a child, I do know these things and am not deceived by them - well, tbh I certainly was when I read it the first time, but c'mon I was like 13 or so...

The point is: it's so subdued and so subtle, it doesn't jump in your face.
No character starts blurting concurrent political messages out of context.
The messaging does not take stage, front and center.
Nobody goes out of that story thinking how terrible modernism is and we should all hop back into the caves - there are some themes for those who are looking for them, and you can think about them if you'd like, and that's it. You can engage with it if you want to - but you don't have to (and I certainly don't want to).
And that's fine - to me, anyway.

Quoting: SamsaiThe problem is that your standard is so arbitrary and undefined that you can declare any flaw in any piece of media as having been caused by a political agenda. At the same time you can also reject any counter-examples by claiming that some arbitrary level of political-ness wasn't met by that work or its creator.

Any flaw? Hell, no.
There is more bad writing that was not caused by political agendas than there is bad writing that was caused by it. As always, it makes no sense to suspect malice when incompetence is a sufficient explanation.

When it happens, though, and it does happen often enough, unfortunately with increasing frequency, it is blatantly obvious - and usually doesn't even get denied by the authors, btw. Those who point it out as a flaw in the writing are then decried as some kind of ****ist so the criticism can be conveniently ignored.

I'll gladly accept counter-examples, but nobody has ever provided any where characters blurting out some bluntly preaching-the-authors-opinion lines (for example) have actually made a product's writing better...


Last edited by TheSHEEEP on 18 September 2021 at 8:59 pm UTC

Quoting: SamsaiI sure wonder what games the "don't put politics in video games" crowd plays. Pong?

Too political. There are black pixels and white pixels right next to each other, which is clearly promoting a desegregationist ideology. Additionally it contains a virtual depiction of a sport, and sports have been political at least since they were forced to acknowledge that black people exist, and they continue to be political since some of them acknowledged that trans people might exist. Oh, and some sports are televised, making them reality TV competitions, which are chock full of politics because of the time a reality TV actor ran for president.

Still it's not as in-your-face about politics as some other games, like chess.

\end{sarcasm}

I think I still have my copy of Simpsons Doom stashed somwhere...

That was hilarious!

(just a .wad file I believe)

Maggie though?

heh.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPInstead, the point is that developers should keep their personal opinions and views where they belong (various discussion platforms exist for that purpose) and not taint an entertainment product in order to try and shove their views down the audience's throat via (usually very thinly veiled) pandering, preaching and self-insertions.
Stuff like that is insidious and disgusting.

This writing is so cute of naivety and philosophical, political and ethical ignorance that I wonder if you were trolling considering your pseudo or making second degree humor?

People that claims to not communicate on personal opinions about politics, world state(economic, ecological,...) were already said by Plato as "very political" (so old problem, no new ideas): in fact, they agree and are fine with the current system. And by saying to other to not tell their political opinions in their daily life and products, they ask them to shut up and join their "every thing is fine in our current system view". This is a corner-stone of consequentialism.

Claiming/requesting people to not talk about politics in arts, culture, etc. is thus ultra-political.

Quoting: Geppeto35

Quoting: TheSHEEEPInstead, the point is that developers should keep their personal opinions and views where they belong (various discussion platforms exist for that purpose) and not taint an entertainment product in order to try and shove their views down the audience's throat via (usually very thinly veiled) pandering, preaching and self-insertions.
Stuff like that is insidious and disgusting.

This writing is so cute of naivety and philosophical, political and ethical ignorance that I wonder if you were trolling considering your pseudo or making second degree humor?

People that claims to not communicate on personal opinions about politics, world state(economic, ecological,...) were already said by Plato as "very political" (so old problem, no new ideas): in fact, they agree and are fine with the current system. And by saying to other to not tell their political opinions in their daily life and products, they ask them to shut up and join their "every thing is fine in our current system view". This is a corner-stone of consequentialism.

Claiming/requesting people to not talk about politics in arts, culture, etc. is thus ultra-political.

My head is spinning after that.

Myself, I like political simulation games like Democracy. That's the right way to do it, give people all sides of the equation, not just one or the other. Right, Left, Center, I believe everyone should be able to visualize their ideal in a game.

Minus hate groups that is. There's a reason the original Wolfenstein is my favorite FPS, after all.

Musings on the state of things in the world today ahead:

Spoiler, click me

That allows for more civil discussion than satire. Believe me, being a moderate in my neck of the woods depends on listening to everyone, otherwise I'd get run out of town on a rail. I really wish us in the USA had a third political party for those willing to cooperate with both sides rather than fight the others. Yes, there are independent parties, but most of them are even further right or left than Democrats or Republicans. There's no large enough party dedicated to compromise to make much difference.

People are dying because neither side is willing to compromise on the smallest things. I'm sick of that. I can't even watch the news without crying anymore. I find myself asking "Please people, can we love each other like we're supposed to?" in my daily life nearly every day.

Quoting: Geppeto35

Quoting: TheSHEEEPInstead, the point is that developers should keep their personal opinions and views where they belong (various discussion platforms exist for that purpose) and not taint an entertainment product in order to try and shove their views down the audience's throat via (usually very thinly veiled) pandering, preaching and self-insertions.
Stuff like that is insidious and disgusting.

This writing is so cute of naivety and philosophical, political and ethical ignorance that I wonder if you were trolling considering your pseudo or making second degree humor?

People that claims to not communicate on personal opinions about politics, world state(economic, ecological,...) were already said by Plato as "very political" (so old problem, no new ideas): in fact, they agree and are fine with the current system. And by saying to other to not tell their political opinions in their daily life and products, they ask them to shut up and join their "every thing is fine in our current system view". This is a corner-stone of consequentialism.

Claiming/requesting people to not talk about politics in arts, culture, etc. is thus ultra-political.

I agree with much of the substance of this but I thought it was said rather more rudely than it needed to be.

Quoting: redneckdrow

Spoiler, click me

That allows for more civil discussion than satire. Believe me, being a moderate in my neck of the woods depends on listening to everyone, otherwise I'd get run out of town on a rail. I really wish us in the USA had a third political party for those willing to cooperate with both sides rather than fight the others. Yes, there are independent parties, but most of them are even further right or left than Democrats or Republicans. There's no large enough party dedicated to compromise to make much difference.

People are dying because neither side is willing to compromise on the smallest things. I'm sick of that. I can't even watch the news without crying anymore. I find myself asking "Please people, can we love each other like we're supposed to?" in my daily life nearly every day.

One thing I've always found strange about US politics is their notion that the Democratic party is a thing that's somehow "on the left", so that for instance someone can be amazed at something being "even further . . . left than Democrats".
By the standards of most countries with multi-party politics, the US Democrats would be equivalent to about the second furthest right party they've got, with like four significant parties further to the left.
Bottom line: Corporate neoliberals who don't even mostly believe in public health care are not left wing.

Quoting: The_AquabatYES yes, Tatcher is as evil as it gets, she threatened to nuke my country

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/nov/22/books.france

But is unclaimed! First link in ddg
no doubt it could happen but is not a fact for sure. You made me learn something new!!!