Valve launches Deck Verified, to show off what games will work well on the Steam Deck

Quoting: randylThe only big drawback to the current base Xbox controller for Windows is that it uses AA batteries instead of a self-contained rechargeable.

Odd. That's the main reason why I don't like ds.

Quoting: damarrinThe SD has ABXY buttons, but not RB/LT etc. For some reason, Valve decided to take these from Playstation and they’re L1,R2 and so on.

Interesting. That suits me fine as RB/LT mean nothing to me, whereas "left 1/right 2" is pretty self explanatory.

Quoting: Purple Library GuyAnd that 5% isn't a purely random figure. We don't know how much the Steam Deck is going to sell, but I don't get the impression 4 million or so Steam Deck sales in the next year or two is out of bounds. That kind of number would boost the number of Linux gamers on Steam to around 5% from its current ~1%. And that massive increase could not have happened without Proton.

I know we’re talking estimates and projections anyway, but do your numbers take into account the fact that a large number of Deck purchases will be by people who already game on Windows Steam? That’s really going to blur the OS share statistics with people owning multiple devices with different systems installed. I don’t know how well we’ll be able to gauge Linux’s penetration of the Steam market once the Deck is out, when we all know how spotty the survey coverage is. If the survey shows up at all on the Deck, I imagine even fewer people being willing to take the time to submit it while gaming on a portable device.

Quoting: SolitaryHow can it be "mark of shame" if the publisher releases the game only for Windows and does not care about some other (new/different) platform? Do you expect that they will lose Windows users because of this new platform that the game isn't even running on?

While I’m in the camp of "those publishers can suck it", I can see your second question happening to some extent: considering that Steam lets you buy a game once and play it on multiple devices, people who own both a Deck and a Windows PC are going to be looking for games that work on both – not necessarily exclusively, but preferentially. And IF (big if) the "Great on Deck" Store tab becomes the default on all devices and not just Decks, that would indeed mean those publishers lose visibility on all of Steam for not supporting that platform.


Last edited by Salvatos on 19 October 2021 at 5:01 pm UTC

Quoting: randyl

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: randylBatman_Arkham_Asylum_Game_of_the_Year_Edition/) works on Windows 11. I just tested it.

But it proves how random things are, even on Windows. The issue my son got, with this games, is largely documented on support sites... He is not alone. On my end, just turning on ProtonGE makes the game run. We have same spec computers (except for the GPU, both Nvidia though).

That's true for Linux users as well. A native game may or may not work on a given distro which is why Valve offers SLR (the Ubuntu container) because what Linux compat often means is just Ubuntu support. Proton doesn't work consistently either as you point out. You needed to install a Glorious Eggroll compile of Proton to make things work as intended. Gaming has always been like this since the days of DOS, Amiga, and OS2 before Windows and Linux.

You said, someone should test whether these things work on Win10/11 and then submitted a game you said doesn't work on Windows. I tested it, since someone curious asked, and it works for me. You know, like when you can't compile an app at work and the author shrugs and says, "It works on my machine."

It proves my point nonetheless... 100% compatibility on Windows doesn't exist. That's all I was saying. I never said it was better on Linux. Batman AA was just an example that I know is problematic for many Windows users. It works for you? Great for you!

If 90% of games are working on Linux being native or with Proton, it's probably in the same range than Windows games on Windows. We are not even talking about the fact that the Steam Deck is a dedicated hardware that will probably have more compatibility than any PC and it's millions of possible hardware combinations (software + hardware).


Last edited by Mohandevir on 19 October 2021 at 5:20 pm UTC

Quoting: Salvatos

Quoting: Purple Library GuyAnd that 5% isn't a purely random figure. We don't know how much the Steam Deck is going to sell, but I don't get the impression 4 million or so Steam Deck sales in the next year or two is out of bounds. That kind of number would boost the number of Linux gamers on Steam to around 5% from its current ~1%. And that massive increase could not have happened without Proton.

I know we’re talking estimates and projections anyway, but do your numbers take into account the fact that a large number of Deck purchases will be by people who already game on Windows Steam?

No. Yes, that will get messy in terms of doing counts and whatnot, but for me the basic point is: Every Steam Deck sale represents a person with a reason to care if a game runs on Linux (even if they don't know what Linux is). 4 million sales would mean 4 million more such people, and so on.

Quoting: SalvatosWhile I’m in the camp of "those publishers can suck it", I can see your second question happening to some extent: considering that Steam lets you buy a game once and play it on multiple devices, people who own both a Deck and a Windows PC are going to be looking for games that work on both – not necessarily exclusively, but preferentially.

If publishers lose customers because their game doesn't run on Deck then the idea of opting-out of visibility on Deck does not help them, which was the point of my whole comment. Losing customers to some other form of entertainment is reality of competition. In the same argument you could say that games that are not good fit for handhelds will also lose customers to games that are. Nobody owes anybody anything. By that idea you could say the same for VR... games that don't have VR are losing sales to the VR games.

I hope the Steam Deck does get included in the Hardware Survey. BPM doesn't, because it was a separate thing and rather unmaintained post-release, but the Steam Deck (as another view of the normal client) should be able to have a confirmation to be included. It's a hardware survey, so if someone has a desktop machine and a Deck they should both be included. If a whole bunch of people are using a low-res display and integrated graphics, that's something that developers will want to know so they can set appropriate performance targets; missing out the Deck would skew that data.

The platform sales situation is already messy, and Valve have already picked their solution: a sale counts as a particular platform if that platform has the most playtime at the end of the refund period, falling back to the platform the sale was made on, falling back to Windows. Until Linux has more than 50% market share, that last step isn't going to change.

Quoting: BielFPs

Quoting: SolitaryHow can it be "mark of shame" if the publisher releases the game only for Windows and does not care about some other (new/different) platform? Do you expect that they will lose Windows users because of this new platform that the game isn't even running on?

Publisher might take some flak from users, just like they do if users demand controller support, bugfixes or hell... Linux support. Same is going to be with Deck support. But that's all between users and the dev/publisher.

Try to imagine the developer / publisher side situation: You're selling your game in a store which bites 30% of each sale you do, and suddenly your game is now advertised with the mark of shame in the store because of the lack of support for a OS that you didn't intended to support (for whatever reason), and this can give the idea for some customers that there's "something broken" in your product (even if this does not affect you like windows players), because you can't expect every consumer on steam to know what that mark means.

The least developer can expect from a store that takes 30% of your profit is to not officially give "bad publicity" about your game, doesn't matter if it's true or not. (different from users review btw, which are customers opinion)

So I imagine Valve can face the following dilemma:
-They make this information public to every client, and risk to face backlash from some developers / publishers claiming Valve is making "bad PR" of their products

-They make this information available only to steam deck users, and risk people asking for refund (deck) after discover that "games are not working in this console". In my opinion this also defeats the purpose of having all this work to do verification.

Of course I'm not confirming that any of this will happen, but it is all in the realm of possibility.

You keep calling it mark of shame and your whole argument stands on it. Calling it "Unsupported" is maybe a shame (for the user), but hardly shameful. Valve quite deliberately chose the ratings so it doesn't have negative connotations and just states the obvious truth, they don't even claim it doesn't run, it's just unsupported. Valve also never really says that it's the games fault (maybe with the exception of anticheat), they for the most part take that responsibility on themselves. I would agree with you if it was "borked" or "broken" (ProtonDB), there you could make the argument much easier.

Quoting: CatKillerThe platform sales situation is already messy, and Valve have already picked their solution: a sale counts as a particular platform if that platform has the most playtime at the end of the refund period, falling back to the platform the sale was made on, falling back to Windows. Until Linux has more than 50% market share, that last step isn't going to change.

And considering that a lot of customers will be playing mostly games they already own for the near future, which are already written down as Windows sales for the most part, I imagine Valve will want a very clear picture of the Deck’s usage both in terms of play time and what is getting played – both for their own R&D and to incentivize developers to support Linux or Proton compatibility. So I’m curious to see what changes they make to the surveys or other forms of telemetry towards that end.

If they want the Deck to be seen as successful, they can’t miss out on the numbers "wasted" on past sales and stats being skewed in favor of Windows based on where the sale was made or the ratio of Windows/Deck play time in the first two weeks alone.


Last edited by Salvatos on 19 October 2021 at 6:47 pm UTC

Quoting: SolitaryYou keep calling it mark of shame and your whole argument stands on it.

You're missing the point worrying so much about this nickname (that wasn't me who started btw), but very well...

Quoting: SolitaryValve quite deliberately chose the ratings so it doesn't have negative connotations and just states the obvious truth, they don't even claim it doesn't run, it's just unsupported. Valve also never really says that it's the games fault (maybe with the exception of anticheat), they for the most part take that responsibility on themselves.

In my original point I was stating that users, unaware of steam deck subject, seeing games labeled as unsupported (happy now?) could think that there's something wrong with the game (even if there isn't) and this could cause some kind of backlash from developers claiming that this label could be giving wrong the idea to users about the game.

Quoting: SolitaryI would agree with you if it was "borked" or "broken" (ProtonDB), there you could make the argument much easier.

That's the point, for someone unaware seeing this "unsupported" label they can think that's something else (including broken), specially compared to other games with green / verified label.

Quoting: BielFPsOf course I'm not confirming that any of this will happen, but it is all in the realm of possibility.

Quoting: Salvatos

Quoting: CatKillerThe platform sales situation is already messy, and Valve have already picked their solution: a sale counts as a particular platform if that platform has the most playtime at the end of the refund period, falling back to the platform the sale was made on, falling back to Windows. Until Linux has more than 50% market share, that last step isn't going to change.

And considering that a lot of customers will be playing mostly games they already own for the near future, which are already written down as Windows sales for the most part, I imagine Valve will want a very clear picture of the Deck’s usage both in terms of play time and what is getting played – both for their own R&D and to incentivize developers to support Linux or Proton compatibility. So I’m curious to see what changes they make to the surveys or other forms of telemetry towards that end.

If they want the Deck to be seen as successful, they can’t miss out on the numbers "wasted" on past sales and stats being skewed in favor of Windows based on where the sale was made or the ratio of Windows/Deck play time in the first two weeks alone.

We know that Valve can track how many sessions are played with a controller (maybe that's synonymous in their stats with people using BPM?) because they've given that information in their annual reviews. I don't know that they pass that information on to developers.

So far, enthusiasm for the Deck (for developers, the media, and customers) seems very high, so I don't think they'll feel the need to do much. If interest from developers slackens off they might start surfacing some of the data about hours played - on Linux, with a controller, on a handheld - in their reports that they send to developers. I expect their 2022 year in review report to have lots of information about the Steam Deck and how they feel it's going, either way.