I must say, I appreciate the attention to make things not only simpler but less breakable lately. First we had APT being patched to stop users removing essential packages, now the KDE Discover software manager gets a similar upgrade.
Developer Nate Graham has written up another great "This week in KDE" blog post, going over changes and improvements coming to the next release of Plasma and the various applications. One small change really caught my eye though! Discover now has a new way to ensure you keep a working system, with an updated mechanism to detect important packages getting removed and give you a friendly warning on it free of too much technical jargon.
Picture Source - Nate Graham
Graham's comment underneath "Hopefully this is Linus-Sebastian-proof", heh. I hope many more application developers are looking at the way Discover and APT are evolving to ensure things are a bit more idiot-proof.
Another change to make things look a bit friendlier in Discover is that previously, if you had issues upgrading, it would instantly shove a load of technical details in your face. To normal consumers, that's clearly not going to do much to help and could probably scare them away. Now, instead, it will provide a very clear and friendly message, with the option to get more details to report the issue.
Picture Source - Nate Graham
Plenty more upgrades to Plasma are in the works too, like the newer KWin Overview effect gaining the ability to display search results from KRunner, which brings it another step closer to the GNOME Activities Overview feature, which I did always find thoroughly useful.
There's plenty more fixes in the full post.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Quoting: Purple Library GuyBut it's not '99 any more. If I started today, I wouldn't have had to do any of that stuff. And I wouldn't have done it, because I only did it because I had to. I wasn't on a voyage of discovery, I was just trying to un-break stuff.But that's how you learn!!
And also, back in that era the Linux desktop were in a totally different and extremely premature state. Remember that we didn't even have a unison clipboard across applications? Some applications used this clipboard, others used another solution for it and some simply didn't have it implemented. Same with drag'n'drop. :D
So the problem back then were that shit didn't really work properly at all, especially on the graphical user interface side of things. They were downright horrible. The package management and the repositories too were a completely different story.
But today things work! And work really well. Just with not too many crutches or rescue parachutes. Lean and mean, and with all power to the user.
I like that. As you've probably figured out by now. :)
Last edited by Beamboom on 23 November 2021 at 9:53 pm UTC
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Quoting: BeamboomI don't care!Quoting: Purple Library GuyBut it's not '99 any more. If I started today, I wouldn't have had to do any of that stuff. And I wouldn't have done it, because I only did it because I had to. I wasn't on a voyage of discovery, I was just trying to un-break stuff.But that's how you learn!!
You learn lots of ways. I learn many things by reading books.
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slaapliedje Nov 24, 2021
Quoting: Purple Library GuyWish I could make you read the Pathfinder 2e books for me so I wouldn't have to read them myself. 😜Quoting: BeamboomI don't care!Quoting: Purple Library GuyBut it's not '99 any more. If I started today, I wouldn't have had to do any of that stuff. And I wouldn't have done it, because I only did it because I had to. I wasn't on a voyage of discovery, I was just trying to un-break stuff.But that's how you learn!!
You learn lots of ways. I learn many things by reading books.
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Quoting: slaapliedjeSorry, filled up recently on D&D 5th edition. I was amazed . . . it's actually got less skills and day to day utility magic, you know, for doing non-kill kind of stuff, than later bits of old school AD&D 1st edition. In other ways I was surprised just how little has changed. Rules a bit more consistent, a couple of interesting new character classes and mechanics, fighters get a few tactical options, multi-classing is basically dead because it was OP as hell, some quirky flavour lost, but basically, it's still D&D.Quoting: Purple Library GuyWish I could make you read the Pathfinder 2e books for me so I wouldn't have to read them myself. 😜Quoting: BeamboomI don't care!Quoting: Purple Library GuyBut it's not '99 any more. If I started today, I wouldn't have had to do any of that stuff. And I wouldn't have done it, because I only did it because I had to. I wasn't on a voyage of discovery, I was just trying to un-break stuff.But that's how you learn!!
You learn lots of ways. I learn many things by reading books.
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slaapliedje Nov 24, 2021
Quoting: Purple Library GuyHa, I only started buying PF2e books because Humble Bundle had a cheap physical copy of the Bestiary. Trying to convince someone else to GM Pathfinder, he asked if we could just do 'Homebrew' now to me that means either A) Programs for computers past their prime, or B) just make up your own rules, which then why use PF2e? But he meant for the Campaign setting.Quoting: slaapliedjeSorry, filled up recently on D&D 5th edition. I was amazed . . . it's actually got less skills and day to day utility magic, you know, for doing non-kill kind of stuff, than later bits of old school AD&D 1st edition. In other ways I was surprised just how little has changed. Rules a bit more consistent, a couple of interesting new character classes and mechanics, fighters get a few tactical options, multi-classing is basically dead because it was OP as hell, some quirky flavour lost, but basically, it's still D&D.Quoting: Purple Library GuyWish I could make you read the Pathfinder 2e books for me so I wouldn't have to read them myself. 😜Quoting: BeamboomI don't care!Quoting: Purple Library GuyBut it's not '99 any more. If I started today, I wouldn't have had to do any of that stuff. And I wouldn't have done it, because I only did it because I had to. I wasn't on a voyage of discovery, I was just trying to un-break stuff.But that's how you learn!!
You learn lots of ways. I learn many things by reading books.
Now in my mind, D&D and Pathfinder are both very much tied to their campaign setting(s). With their races or ancestries, whatever they want to call them. And their classes, etc. The entire way the games work seem very much built to exist within certain realms. Now could you use the systems to make up your own worlds and such? Sure... but GURPS in it's very nature is great at such things, as it's built more as a framework / tool kit for role-playing, vs something like D&D and Pathfinder, where their logic and consistency isn't exactly tied to any sort of realism, ans fit much better within their own realms. It's like trying to imagine doing something realistic and science-y with Spelljammer. :P
Sorry, I know this is WAY off topic!
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Quoting: slaapliedjeSorry, I know this is WAY off topic!No doubt. For the record, though, I totally agree with you.
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A new Linux user on KDE will much more likely be using the KDE Discover store to manage their software, as opposed to the terminal. From that standpoint, I can see why they implemented the change, so as to not brick their system.
However, for Linux power users who may be using the Discover Store, I can also see why this change is vexing. It is just another blocker; they know about the risks and what will happen to their system.
I think the best way forward is to do what Linux does best: choice. Add an option to the Discover Store that says "I know what I'm doing to my system, please don't bother me" and that keeps both newer and more experienced users happy.
However, for Linux power users who may be using the Discover Store, I can also see why this change is vexing. It is just another blocker; they know about the risks and what will happen to their system.
I think the best way forward is to do what Linux does best: choice. Add an option to the Discover Store that says "I know what I'm doing to my system, please don't bother me" and that keeps both newer and more experienced users happy.
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Quoting: metalinuxA new Linux user on KDE will much more likely be using the KDE Discover store to manage their software, as opposed to the terminal. From that standpoint, I can see why they implemented the change, so as to not brick their system.
However, for Linux power users who may be using the Discover Store, I can also see why this change is vexing. It is just another blocker; they know about the risks and what will happen to their system.
I think the best way forward is to do what Linux does best: choice. Add an option to the Discover Store that says "I know what I'm doing to my system, please don't bother me" and that keeps both newer and more experienced users happy.
Yes, but GUI programs probably should default to not do things that feel like breaking the system to many users.
In command like tools, making the user type say "Yes, I want to break my system" should be enough.
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Philadelphus Nov 25, 2021
Quoting: BeamboomI hate to break this to you, so how do I put it gently...not everyone wants to learn. Or, more accurately (and charitably), not everyone wants to learn the same stuff. And I don't think that's a failing on their part. Like, I don't find sports or makeup techniques interesting, but I don't judge those who want to learn about them in hopes that they extend the same courtesy to me.Quoting: Purple Library GuyBut it's not '99 any more. If I started today, I wouldn't have had to do any of that stuff. And I wouldn't have done it, because I only did it because I had to. I wasn't on a voyage of discovery, I was just trying to un-break stuff.But that's how you learn!!
I get it. You think learning about the internals of computers is fascinating. My new day job is programming, so I sort of understand. I like learning about computers too. But I like to do it of my own volition, not because I'm forced to in order to do some task that should take 30 seconds but has instead required an evening of Googling and scouring old forums and Stack Exchange threads. That's not fun learning for me, nor, I'm willing to bet, most people.
Most people aren't interested in how computers work, they just want them to work. Similarly, if my car starts making a funny noise, I'm going to take it to a mechanic rather than start digging around inside, because learning more about the specifics of how it works doesn't interest me. I'd rather put that time towards learning things that do; I've got a list as long as my arm (and ever-growing) of things that I'd like to be learning, and every hour spent getting my Linux machine working again is an hour not spent on something I'd rather be doing.
Just as I don't think we should, say, restrict the autonomy of driving an automobile to mechanics who can build one from parts, neither should we keep people from using (operating systems built around) the best kernel out there just because they don't know how to use the terminal and don't care to learn. If they want to learn more, fine; Linux'll let you do that in spades! If they want to continue using it to surf the web and watch movies without ever touching a terminal, also fine. At least they're using a freer, more secure, OS and not having to spend as much of their hard-earned money on it, and I think it's an admirable goal to expand those benefits to as many people as possible.
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slaapliedje Nov 25, 2021
Quoting: PhiladelphusThis just makes me wish Atari had succeeded with their ST line of computers. They finally got multitasking figured out, but really the OS was so very simple to use "A monkey could use it" to quote the sales guy in 1992.Quoting: BeamboomI hate to break this to you, so how do I put it gently...not everyone wants to learn. Or, more accurately (and charitably), not everyone wants to learn the same stuff. And I don't think that's a failing on their part. Like, I don't find sports or makeup techniques interesting, but I don't judge those who want to learn about them in hopes that they extend the same courtesy to me.Quoting: Purple Library GuyBut it's not '99 any more. If I started today, I wouldn't have had to do any of that stuff. And I wouldn't have done it, because I only did it because I had to. I wasn't on a voyage of discovery, I was just trying to un-break stuff.But that's how you learn!!
I get it. You think learning about the internals of computers is fascinating. My new day job is programming, so I sort of understand. I like learning about computers too. But I like to do it of my own volition, not because I'm forced to in order to do some task that should take 30 seconds but has instead required an evening of Googling and scouring old forums and Stack Exchange threads. That's not fun learning for me, nor, I'm willing to bet, most people.
Most people aren't interested in how computers work, they just want them to work. Similarly, if my car starts making a funny noise, I'm going to take it to a mechanic rather than start digging around inside, because learning more about the specifics of how it works doesn't interest me. I'd rather put that time towards learning things that do; I've got a list as long as my arm (and ever-growing) of things that I'd like to be learning, and every hour spent getting my Linux machine working again is an hour not spent on something I'd rather be doing.
Just as I don't think we should, say, restrict the autonomy of driving an automobile to mechanics who can build one from parts, neither should we keep people from using (operating systems built around) the best kernel out there just because they don't know how to use the terminal and don't care to learn. If they want to learn more, fine; Linux'll let you do that in spades! If they want to continue using it to surf the web and watch movies without ever touching a terminal, also fine. At least they're using a freer, more secure, OS and not having to spend as much of their hard-earned money on it, and I think it's an admirable goal to expand those benefits to as many people as possible.
Operating systems have become a big complicated mess. But terminal usage I think is NOT something that people should shy away from.
An actual conversation I had with a mac user when talking to him about a series of videos I saw about a guy switching to macOS from Windows. In the first video, the guy complained that Finder doesn't show transfer speeds when copying files. Mac user said just use the terminal if you need transfer speeds. Or why would you even need that. Should be an option under a 'more details' thing, I would think.
Next video, the guy was saying there is no 'cut' in finder, and (much like the aforementioned Atari ST) it is a different key combination when you paste that will move the file instead of copy. On GEM, you hold down either Alt or Control and drag the file (one moves and one renames the file at destination, you hold both to do both.)
One thing I love in Gnome that is missing from Windows is being able to hold the super key and move windows.
All computer operating systems suck in one way or another. But Windows users specifically have been taught all of their lives that a terminal is either DOS or dangerous. So to expect a long time Windows user to understand the power that a terminal in Linux, or macOS even is a little crazy. Especially when they are so called 'Power Users' that have learned bad habits.
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