Kingdom Come: Deliverance gets shown off on the Steam Deck

Quoting: Alm888Personally I think there is a hole in this logic: why developers should take Linux into account if Linux gamers are demonstrating that releasing Windows-exclusive games is not only tolerated, but desirable (some say they'd rather have a Proton-compatible game than be left with unmaintained subpar "Linux port") action and the developers are not losing any money by doing so.

How would you demonstrate that by not buying the game? At the current numbers of gamers that only play native Linux games they won't even recognize you, and they certainly don't loose any money by doing so. For me, buying a windows game and playing it on Linux to make it count as a Linux sale would possibly help more.

But that is just my personal stance... In the end, I just want to play games on Linux, no matter if it is Windows or Linux native.

Quoting: FrawoHow would you demonstrate that by not buying the game?

And why shall I demonstrate anything to them? They don't care about me, I don't care about them.

Quoting: FrawoAt the current numbers of gamers that only play native Linux games they won't even recognize you, and they certainly don't loose any money by doing so.

And by purchasing their Windows-exclusive game I would be definitely recognized… as a Windows customer. Ever tried to put out fires by splashing gasoline?

Quoting: FrawoFor me, buying a windows game and playing it on Linux to make it count as a Linux sale would possibly help more.

How so? It is a taming process. Think about positive and negative feedback. By giving developers food for their misbehavior you encourage them to continue doing so. Positive feedback, you see? They had released Windows-only game, you gave them your money. Corollary: they've done everything right.
It is not my protest that matters (you are sort of right here, but not quite), but your compliance.

On the contrary, I prefer to reward and encourage good behavior. Let's face it, I have a finite amount of money and, more importantly, a finite amount of time, attention and passion. And instead of wasting it on Windows-exclusive games I prefer to concentrate on Linux-native ones. Which means not only giving money to Linux-friendly devs, but submitting bug reports and being generally helpful as well.

IMO, we should care less about those devs who spit on us and more for those who show us support (despite all difficulties: admit it, working with Linux and around its quirks is not like a walk in the park).

Quoting: FrawoBut that is just my personal stance... In the end, I just want to play games on Linux, no matter if it is Windows or Linux native.

Which means they tamed you. :)
But I'm a wild beast and will not eat from their hand.

Quoting: Alm888

Quoting: FrawoHow would you demonstrate that by not buying the game?

And why shall I demonstrate anything to them? They don't care about me, I don't care about them.

Quoting: FrawoAt the current numbers of gamers that only play native Linux games they won't even recognize you, and they certainly don't loose any money by doing so.

And by purchasing their Windows-exclusive game I would be definitely recognized… as a Windows customer. Ever tried to put out fires by splashing gasoline?

Quoting: FrawoFor me, buying a windows game and playing it on Linux to make it count as a Linux sale would possibly help more.

How so? It is a taming process. Think about positive and negative feedback. By giving developers food for their misbehavior you encourage them to continue doing so. Positive feedback, you see? They had released Windows-only game, you gave them your money. Corollary: they've done everything right.
It is not my protest that matters (you are sort of right here, but not quite), but your compliance.

On the contrary, I prefer to reward and encourage good behavior. Let's face it, I have a finite amount of money and, more importantly, a finite amount of time, attention and passion. And instead of wasting it on Windows-exclusive games I prefer to concentrate on Linux-native ones. Which means not only giving money to Linux-friendly devs, but submitting bug reports and being generally helpful as well.

IMO, we should care less about those devs who spit on us and more for those who show us support (despite all difficulties: admit it, working with Linux and around its quirks is not like a walk in the park).

Quoting: FrawoBut that is just my personal stance... In the end, I just want to play games on Linux, no matter if it is Windows or Linux native.

Which means they tamed you. :)
But I'm a wild beast and will not eat from their hand.

What kind of sucks is the situations like with Aspyr. They have tried to support us in the past, but Civ6 is plagued with so many issues, a lot of people run the Windows version in Linux because the game is buggy, and the port is buggier.
It is also odd from the Steam side of things, since the purchase is multiplatform, how does it know if the cut should go to the porting house, or the publisher? Or did tgey just get a flat rate and it all goes to the publisher anyhow?

Quoting: kaiman

Quoting: mahagrKingdom Come works very well in Linux, I get 4K (FSR Ultra) / ~60 FPS with almost everything maxed out using RTX 3070 Ti.

Yeah, no doubt it'll run just fine on the Steam Deck. With Wine + DXVK I got 30 FPS on my GTX 950 on medium settings, and it still looked fantastic. Wondering about the controls, though ... I felt it was a game better played with keyboard and mouse. And that's perhaps a general concern ... it's one thing if games run without effort from the developer's side, but perhaps a bit of effort should be spent at least in optimizing the control scheme for the Deck.

Quoting: kaiman

Quoting: mahagrKingdom Come works very well in Linux, I get 4K (FSR Ultra) / ~60 FPS with almost everything maxed out using RTX 3070 Ti.

Yeah, no doubt it'll run just fine on the Steam Deck. With Wine + DXVK I got 30 FPS on my GTX 950 on medium settings, and it still looked fantastic. Wondering about the controls, though ... I felt it was a game better played with keyboard and mouse. And that's perhaps a general concern ... it's one thing if games run without effort from the developer's side, but perhaps a bit of effort should be spent at least in optimizing the control scheme for the Deck.

I guess the control scheme is what they are working on, we got a lot of some KB patches of KCD recently doing nothing more tan updating controller options and settings.

While I do agree that this kind of game is better played keyboard/mouse (most games are in my opinion), I played it with the steam controller through steam link, and it worked really nicely.

Quoting: Alm888Which means they tamed you. :)

Yeah... kind of! ;)

While I agree with you for the most part, I wouldn't throw such harsh words at the developers. They still have to make a living out of what they do, so it is OK for me if they ensure proper Proton support (which is - in my experience - anyway better than most of the Linux Natives I have played so far).

Quoting: Arten

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Alm888

Quoting: CatKiller

• developer promises Mac & Linux support


• developer breaks promise, demonstrating that they can't be trusted


• developer promises Steam Deck support


• ...

• Linux users happily buy developer's Windows-exclusive product


• …

Love it or hate it, such a world we are living in. Linux is irrelevant. This story will (I suppose) prove this developer's initial assertion of the market was spot-on. It is better to ignore Linux completely -- less hassle that way and no real monetary loss.

Speak for yourself. I only buy Windows-only games at absolutely rock bottom prices and rarely even then - most of my Windows library post-2013 is from Humble Monthly/Choice. I've bought several native titles at full price though.

Also, I tend to remember developer's antics. I'm not buying from these guys - they promised Linux support, then dropped it like a hot potato once they were funded. Absolute fraud move. I have no time for them. They're up there with THQ Nordic for their 8chan "shout out to Mark" antics and Epic Games for their exclusivity bull.

Before KC:D is released I was at prague fest where one of the speakers was one of the founders of Warhorse. At the time of the questions, I asked him to support Linux. The situation was such that at a small event in Czech he could comment on it openly, unlike the company as a whole, which was bound by agreements with crytek. Cryengin's support for Linux was in a much more desperate state than they were told. They didn't have the strength to do what Cloud Imperium Games is doing now, which is rewrite the engine. I wouldn't call it an Absolute fraud move, not from warhorse.

Unfortunately as can be seen in this comment section, a number of Linux gamers are, uh, let's call them principled people and in the eyes of this part of the community Warhorse Studios is the devil incarnate in spite of the truth and the details around the situation.
I don't want to point any fingers around here, partly because I think we are all to blame for this in varying degrees, but I have the impression that a large reason for Linux support being as hard to get for games as it is now is due to the fact that we are simply put a tough crowd to please in general.

Quoting: LungDrago

Quoting: Arten

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Alm888

Quoting: CatKiller

• developer promises Mac & Linux support


• developer breaks promise, demonstrating that they can't be trusted


• developer promises Steam Deck support


• ...

• Linux users happily buy developer's Windows-exclusive product


• …

Love it or hate it, such a world we are living in. Linux is irrelevant. This story will (I suppose) prove this developer's initial assertion of the market was spot-on. It is better to ignore Linux completely -- less hassle that way and no real monetary loss.

Speak for yourself. I only buy Windows-only games at absolutely rock bottom prices and rarely even then - most of my Windows library post-2013 is from Humble Monthly/Choice. I've bought several native titles at full price though.

Also, I tend to remember developer's antics. I'm not buying from these guys - they promised Linux support, then dropped it like a hot potato once they were funded. Absolute fraud move. I have no time for them. They're up there with THQ Nordic for their 8chan "shout out to Mark" antics and Epic Games for their exclusivity bull.

Before KC:D is released I was at prague fest where one of the speakers was one of the founders of Warhorse. At the time of the questions, I asked him to support Linux. The situation was such that at a small event in Czech he could comment on it openly, unlike the company as a whole, which was bound by agreements with crytek. Cryengin's support for Linux was in a much more desperate state than they were told. They didn't have the strength to do what Cloud Imperium Games is doing now, which is rewrite the engine. I wouldn't call it an Absolute fraud move, not from warhorse.

Unfortunately as can be seen in this comment section, a number of Linux gamers are, uh, let's call them principled people and in the eyes of this part of the community Warhorse Studios is the devil incarnate in spite of the truth and the details around the situation.
I don't want to point any fingers around here, partly because I think we are all to blame for this in varying degrees, but I have the impression that a large reason for Linux support being as hard to get for games as it is now is due to the fact that we are simply put a tough crowd to please in general.

I'd argue the opposite. Were incredibly easy to please. We just want what's promised and to be treated equally.

Every time the Linux "community" lashed out it's been because of either broken promises or appalling issues with a shoddy release. That's not high standards though, it's a basic requirement for respect.

We tend to be enthusiastically supportive if a developer gives us a perfomant native release. And we condemn developers who lie to us, or apply double standards to their products.

(Community is in quotes because Linux is still weirdly tribal and I'm not sure there's a huge sense of community that binds us together. Although, maybe I am positively influenced by the GOL community which is largely superb.)

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: LungDrago

Quoting: Arten

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Alm888

Quoting: CatKiller

• developer promises Mac & Linux support


• developer breaks promise, demonstrating that they can't be trusted


• developer promises Steam Deck support


• ...

• Linux users happily buy developer's Windows-exclusive product


• …

Love it or hate it, such a world we are living in. Linux is irrelevant. This story will (I suppose) prove this developer's initial assertion of the market was spot-on. It is better to ignore Linux completely -- less hassle that way and no real monetary loss.

Speak for yourself. I only buy Windows-only games at absolutely rock bottom prices and rarely even then - most of my Windows library post-2013 is from Humble Monthly/Choice. I've bought several native titles at full price though.

Also, I tend to remember developer's antics. I'm not buying from these guys - they promised Linux support, then dropped it like a hot potato once they were funded. Absolute fraud move. I have no time for them. They're up there with THQ Nordic for their 8chan "shout out to Mark" antics and Epic Games for their exclusivity bull.

Before KC:D is released I was at prague fest where one of the speakers was one of the founders of Warhorse. At the time of the questions, I asked him to support Linux. The situation was such that at a small event in Czech he could comment on it openly, unlike the company as a whole, which was bound by agreements with crytek. Cryengin's support for Linux was in a much more desperate state than they were told. They didn't have the strength to do what Cloud Imperium Games is doing now, which is rewrite the engine. I wouldn't call it an Absolute fraud move, not from warhorse.

Unfortunately as can be seen in this comment section, a number of Linux gamers are, uh, let's call them principled people and in the eyes of this part of the community Warhorse Studios is the devil incarnate in spite of the truth and the details around the situation.
I don't want to point any fingers around here, partly because I think we are all to blame for this in varying degrees, but I have the impression that a large reason for Linux support being as hard to get for games as it is now is due to the fact that we are simply put a tough crowd to please in general.

I'd argue the opposite. Were incredibly easy to please. We just want what's promised and to be treated equally.

Every time the Linux "community" lashed out it's been because of either broken promises or appalling issues with a shoddy release. That's not high standards though, it's a basic requirement for respect.

We tend to be enthusiastically supportive if a developer gives us a perfomant native release. And we condemn developers who lie to us, or apply double standards to their products.

(Community is in quotes because Linux is still weirdly tribal and I'm not sure there's a huge sense of community that binds us together. Although, maybe I am positively influenced by the GOL community which is largely superb.)

But the situation is that it is not always the game developer's turn to break the promise. You have a situation where crytek promises that their engine will be usable under Linux to the game developer. Based on this promise, the developer himself promises to support Linux.

Crytek then doesn't keep his promise, and what else does the developer have left? It's true that the Warhorses didn't keep their promise, but not through their own fault.

I don't think it's a coincidence that there's still none with native Linux support between cryengin games. I'm guessing star citizen will be the first, but they're rewriting the engine themselves.

Quoting: ArtenBut the situation is that it is not always the game developer's turn to break the promise. You have a situation where crytek promises that their engine will be usable under Linux to the game developer. Based on this promise, the developer himself promises to support Linux.

Crytek then doesn't keep his promise, and what else does the developer have left? It's true that the Warhorses didn't keep their promise, but not through their own fault.

IIRC, you could request a refund from Warhorse after they dropped it. Compared to others than simply gave the middle finger, Warhorse was pretty decent.

Quoting: Arten

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: LungDrago

Quoting: Arten

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Alm888

Quoting: CatKiller

• developer promises Mac & Linux support


• developer breaks promise, demonstrating that they can't be trusted


• developer promises Steam Deck support


• ...

• Linux users happily buy developer's Windows-exclusive product


• …

Love it or hate it, such a world we are living in. Linux is irrelevant. This story will (I suppose) prove this developer's initial assertion of the market was spot-on. It is better to ignore Linux completely -- less hassle that way and no real monetary loss.

Speak for yourself. I only buy Windows-only games at absolutely rock bottom prices and rarely even then - most of my Windows library post-2013 is from Humble Monthly/Choice. I've bought several native titles at full price though.

Also, I tend to remember developer's antics. I'm not buying from these guys - they promised Linux support, then dropped it like a hot potato once they were funded. Absolute fraud move. I have no time for them. They're up there with THQ Nordic for their 8chan "shout out to Mark" antics and Epic Games for their exclusivity bull.

Before KC:D is released I was at prague fest where one of the speakers was one of the founders of Warhorse. At the time of the questions, I asked him to support Linux. The situation was such that at a small event in Czech he could comment on it openly, unlike the company as a whole, which was bound by agreements with crytek. Cryengin's support for Linux was in a much more desperate state than they were told. They didn't have the strength to do what Cloud Imperium Games is doing now, which is rewrite the engine. I wouldn't call it an Absolute fraud move, not from warhorse.

Unfortunately as can be seen in this comment section, a number of Linux gamers are, uh, let's call them principled people and in the eyes of this part of the community Warhorse Studios is the devil incarnate in spite of the truth and the details around the situation.
I don't want to point any fingers around here, partly because I think we are all to blame for this in varying degrees, but I have the impression that a large reason for Linux support being as hard to get for games as it is now is due to the fact that we are simply put a tough crowd to please in general.

I'd argue the opposite. Were incredibly easy to please. We just want what's promised and to be treated equally.

Every time the Linux "community" lashed out it's been because of either broken promises or appalling issues with a shoddy release. That's not high standards though, it's a basic requirement for respect.

We tend to be enthusiastically supportive if a developer gives us a perfomant native release. And we condemn developers who lie to us, or apply double standards to their products.

(Community is in quotes because Linux is still weirdly tribal and I'm not sure there's a huge sense of community that binds us together. Although, maybe I am positively influenced by the GOL community which is largely superb.)

But the situation is that it is not always the game developer's turn to break the promise. You have a situation where crytek promises that their engine will be usable under Linux to the game developer. Based on this promise, the developer himself promises to support Linux.

Crytek then doesn't keep his promise, and what else does the developer have left? It's true that the Warhorses didn't keep their promise, but not through their own fault.

I don't think it's a coincidence that there's still none with native Linux support between cryengin games. I'm guessing star citizen will be the first, but they're rewriting the engine themselves.

As a consumer, you don't tend to care about who's "fault" it is. Warhorse promised Linux support, and it never materialised. Was it Crytek's fault? Hmmm, according to Warhorse's Kickstarter FAQ:

QuoteAbout platforms: we are using proven technology (Cryengine by CryTek) that runs on both PS4 and Xbox One, as well as on Windows PC, Mac and Linux. While we are developing on PC, we definitely want to bring the game to other platforms. While there should be nothing but technical problems with Linux and Mac, on closed platforms we need to deal with the platform holders and we cannot prejudge their decision.

Doesn't sound like Crytek's fault. It's "proven" technology, apparently. Probably is though... but that's still a bad look for Warhorse, in my books, since it doesn't sound like they even bothered to look into the state of play before over-promising. My "total fraud move" comment is probably unjustified, though.

And at least, as Ehvis notes, they refunded (several confirmed as much on the Kickstart comments page).