System76 patches APT for Pop!_OS to prevent users breaking their systems

The issue Linus had with Steam on Pop is why I always use the deb from the Steam website.

Good to see System76 learn from it though

I honestly got no idea how the package of the distribution makers could be worse than the one that doesn't know anything about your distribution.

To be fair... what would have happened if Linus did not enter "Yes, do as I say!"?
He still would not have been able to install Steam, he wanted Steam, he would have tried it again, ending with the same result: Steam not being installed. Yeah, this was of course the worst thing that could happen to a new Linux user. And he probably would still have switched to a different distro, as he wouldn't have known what's wrong. I guess this was even the faster way. Yeah, I know this was a fluke, a temporary issue, already fixed and a really bad timing for this to happen.

Let's just hope that this didn't give too many viewers the creep, so they'd never want to touch Linux at all.

On a side node, there is even another thing with apt going on right now: https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface/issues/625

Meanwhile everything seemed to work fine for him with Manjaro, which he should have chosen from the get-go, because of newest kernels, newest drivers, for newest hardware, taking a hint from Valve having chosen Arch for the same reason. Someone should tell him that GNU/Linux is NOT M$ Windoze, but a different beast (the car vs. motorcycle analogy) so he should change his approach and mindset, embracing the new (awesome) toy and reading its manual.

Also this is a perfect example of overrated and mindlessly promoted by casual youtubers (because of the same wrong mindset of "everything I used to do with Windoze, I expect to do with GNU/Linux") "user-friendly" vs. user-centric, there used to be a saying with FreeBSD/UNIX that I don't remember quite right but it did go somewhat along the line of "if a system is complex, don't hide it from the user". There's no other shortcut than a) reading fully the downstream distro's wiki b) reading fully the upstream d's wiki to master the OS, in his case, a) read the Manjaro wiki, b) read the Arch wiki, understand, appreciate, constantly improve your skills, be rewarded from the learning (and enlightening) experience.


Last edited by sudoer on 10 November 2021 at 8:28 pm UTC

It's easy to be disappointed by the first episode of this series and view it as a disaster.

But I don't feel that way about it.

In software, when a bug is encountered, what do the developers ask for when you report the bug?

"Send us a log file."

What Linus created, was a log file of a bug. Not a regular software bug, but a "UX bug".

And look, a positive change has already resulted which will benefit future new users of Pop!_OS. Other distros would be smart to also notice this issue and address it as well, so they don't fall victim to the same issue.

One thing System76 has now done to prevent such almighty breakage in future, is to patch APT (the package manager), in Pop to prevent users being able to see the "Yes, do as I say!" prompt by default. Unless, they add a special file to actually enable it. On top of that, another System76 developer Jacob Kauffmann mentioned on GitHub their plans to "make further improvements" to the Pop!_Shop GUI so that "users don't have to fall back to the terminal in the first place". Sounds like lessons learned, and hopefully smooth sailing for users in future.

As for 'blame'. In general, when it comes to UX, my rule is:

"If the user doesn't believe they did anything wrong, then the UX is to blame."

In general, it should simply not be that easy for a new user to brick an install like that. The fact Linus was able to stumble in just 15 minutes into a sequence of events that ended with basically uninstalling his DE, is in my opinion, a UX design failing.

It's easy to say, "But the warning was right there on screen".. Yeah sure, it was, hidden amongst a bunch of other technical jargon. Who in their right mind would assume installing Steam has the potential to uninstall a DE?

This was a UX issue, and it's being addressed. That's a positive change, I'm glad Linus brought this to the Pop!_OS team's attention so they can address it. Hopefully more positive changes will result from the rest of the series.


Last edited by gradyvuckovic on 10 November 2021 at 12:20 pm UTC

I tried popos and it was the same garbage as ubuntu. After some update the system got broken. From my experience manjaro is far better choice then anything Debian based. Turd is a turd no matter how much chocolate topping you put on

I tried popos and it was the same garbage as ubuntu. After some update the system got broken. From my experience manjaro is far better choice then anything Debian based. Turd is a turd no matter how much chocolate topping you put on

Ubuntu/Pop_OS != Debian and Ubuntu/Pop_OS < Debian

But I get your point.

Based on recent blog posts, accusations, etc, I wonder if Pop_OS will eventually try to get this patch merged upstream.

I tried popos and it was the same garbage as ubuntu. After some update the system got broken. From my experience manjaro is far better choice then anything Debian based. Turd is a turd no matter how much chocolate topping you put on

This kind of comment is unhelpful and, frankly, deluded. I've said it before - it's insanely frustrating to see such a small niche shitting on another niche just to get one over on the other 'side'. Grow up.

so he should change his approach and mindset, embracing the new (awesome) toy and reading its manual.

I see you have never met the average computer user
(Which Linus actually above in knowledge, but still managed to fail here)

Stuff like that should be there for people who are interested in digging deeper, but should by no means be a requirement for the average user (unless you aim at techies as your average user).

Clearly, the "make users type some silly string to discourage them" approach just doesn't work.
Never has, never will.


Last edited by TheSHEEEP on 10 November 2021 at 12:44 pm UTC

I tried popos and it was the same garbage as ubuntu. After some update the system got broken. From my experience manjaro is far better choice then anything Debian based. Turd is a turd no matter how much chocolate topping you put on

Please stop with these types of comments. They're unhelpful and distro war stuff is against our rules. I'm leaving it up so we can comment as a reminder it's not welcome here. All distributions can break, if the packaging is messed up. Manjaro has broken, Arch has broken, Ubuntu has broken - I've been through it all over the last 15+ years using Linux. Don't bring this type of thing here.

The fact that the "Linus" guy managed to break his system with a beginner's distro is the icing on this irony cake

Meanwhile everything seemed to work fine for him with Manjaro, which he should have chosen from the get-go, because of newest kernels, newest drivers, for newest hardware, taking a hint from Valve having chosen Arch for the same reason. Someone should tell him that GNU/Linux is NOT M$ Windoze, but a different beast (the car vs. motorcycle analogy) so he should change his approach and mindset, embracing the new (awesome) toy and reading its manual.

Also this is a perfect example of overrated and mindlessly promoted by casual youtubers (because of the same wrong mindset of "everything I used to do with Windoze, I expect to do with GNU/Linux") "user-friendly" vs. user-centric, there used to be a saying with FreeBSD/UNIX that I don't remember quite right but it did go somewhat along the line of "if a system is complex, don't hide it from the user". There's no other shortcut than a) reading fully the downstream distro's wiki b) reading fully the upstream d's wiki to master the OS, in his case, a) read the Manjaro wiki, b) read the Arch wiki, understand, appreciate, constantly improve your skills, be rewarded from the learning (and enlightning) experience.

I can understand the complaints for lack of doing things in UI. Many people just want to do things on their PC without having to know the ins and outs of how it works. I think many people know Linux is not Windows they are just looking for something better than Windows so let them try. However it's not their fault if they don't switch because they didn't understand the OS it's Linux fault for not making it easier to use. Some software alternatives just don't cut it for some of those in professional fields and gaming is still very much a hassle.

I installed Steam on Pop with absolutely no problems. One thing I did notice is that when he installed Steam, you could see the telltale icon on the Pop shop saying that he had updates (which you always do with any new software installation, including Windows). Had he updated Pop first - he would have likely had no problems. I think it's odd that he installed a distro from an ISO and didn't run updates. Being that he's a tech savvy guy, I would have expected that would be the first thing you would want to do - because you're potentially patching known/identified vulnerabilities.

Had he updated Pop first - he would have likely had no problems.

Sadly not the case here. They admitted that a weird 32-bit library issue was inadvertently linked to the "default desktop" package which caused the issue. It would likely have been fixed within a day regardless of Linus stumbling into the issue, but the timing was just incredible and it tripped them up in this case.

My only frustration in Linus' approach here was the irony that he'd have had better luck sticking to the "Windows Way" and just downloading Steam from the SteamPowered website. But one of the core messages for new users of Linux is often "don't do that". Certainly true of drivers at least.

The whole thing is frustrating, tbh. Even if lessons were learned for PopOS, the sad fact is that Linus' viewers have already drawn their conclusions about Linux based on his experience. That video will live forever as a spectacular failure of Linux to engage with a "normal" person. Normal is in quotes there, of course, because a) There wasn't much normality about Linus' set up, and b) Linus is an entertainingly stubborn, impatient and highly critical person. Anyone trying Linux in good faith and with reasonable expectation would have a better experience.

The failing here I feel was in the Pop Shop (which I dislike, mainly for its handling of updates, but that is neither here nor there). When it failed to install the package, it should have come up with a better message that would indicate the problem (Steam package is broken) and propose to him to file a bug.

As the error was meaningless, he turned to the command line, which was not the thing he should have been encouraged to do.

I think I actually cried when Linus skipped the warning on the apt screen. It's not his fault. I place all of the blame on the broken package. But it was literally a case of "That should not have happened." (In Captain Picard's voice. Thumbs up to anyone that gets the quote)

Hmm maybe Steam should be just pre-installed on Pop!_OS

This is a distraction move. Where's the news about the Steam package being fixed and the reason it was published without being tested? Because that's the real issue.

I find it annoying how people think the issue is terminal and also forget why alot of things are terminal based. Making GUI is additional work and what Linus did is not fault of the terminal by itself, it's a UI and information issue. Linus experienced a issue then all of sudden everyone are wise about "We need more user friendliness!". First of all, installing Steam from software store should have been possible. That's something that needs to be there.

But when you go and use terminal, what led Linus to make the mistake is also a UI issue. Let me illustrate.


Following packages will be uninstalled:
Pop-os desktop
gnome-control-center
gnome-shell
You are about to do something potentially harmful. To Continue please type "Yes, do as I say"

Following packages will be uninstalled:
Pop-os desktop
gnome-control-center
gnome-shell
You are about to do something potentially harmful. Before continuing with uninstalling packages write down the command "sudo apt install Pop-os desktop", in the event you want to reverse the action
To Continue with uninstalling please type "Yes, do as I say"


Linux will continue to be largely dependt on terminal, because as I said UI takes more time to develop and there is no simple switch you can press where GUIs appear everywhere for everything. Making terminal more understandable and safer for beginners is more realistic.


Last edited by Linuxwarper on 10 November 2021 at 3:11 pm UTC

It's just sad... Bad timing. The problem is solved, I read? Took what? Couple of hours to get a fix? How much time would have been required, on Windows, to get a fix for a similar issue? Next tuesday patch? Next month? I must admit that I never witnessed a Windows update bricking a PC or generate a BSOD, either...

But it's Linux, it doesn't have that margin. It must be nothing less than perfect, accross the board, on all distributions simultaneously, to convince mainstream users.


Last edited by Mohandevir on 10 November 2021 at 3:10 pm UTC