Ubisoft suggest posting on their forum for Proton support in Rainbow Six Siege

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: GuestWhat's stupid is asking a bunch of Linux users to go create an account on your forum to go post a +1 for Proton support

I get your point. I was just saying that I don't think it's only a taunt. I really think they did that to "monitor" the success of the Steam Deck and what could be in it for them.

They have tools behind the scenes on Steam to see all those numbers. This is just theater.

Mmmm... To what purpose? Because, if I think reverse and I'm a Steam Windows user that already got a Ubisoft catalogue in my Steam library and I'm interrested into buying a Steam Deck... How does it shows in the internal Steam stats?

Someone saying they are buying a Deck doesn't mean they actually will do what they said. The data in the forum is 100% baseless and useless info. The tools behind the scenes that I spoke about tell them how many players use Proton etc, which is far more valuable info than random people saying they will do something that they haven't done yet.

Yep, but if I'm a Windows user that reserved a Steam Deck, I'm not using Proton and doesn't show up on any internal stats... Am I wrong?

You're not wrong there. And you can cancel that steam deck order at any time, making what you said useless. There is no tracking or accountability to a forum post so it doesn't really show any real support for anything.

Imo, the "cancel order" argument can go both ways (Linux or Windows). What I would like to know it's what's the best way to know how many Windows users are manifesting interrest in buying the Steam Deck? I'm quite sure that Ubisoft doesn't care for the actual 1% Linux users. They are searching for a way of finding out how many potential converts the Steam Deck will bring.

The best most cost-effective way I can say would be to send Battleye an email, include support for it and see what shakes out. It can't be any easier than that with Valve doing the tech support for them and the porting. What could be done to make it any easier on them?

Doing that could cause a lot of damage to the game, if it's not well tested and then a breach is found that allows lots of new bots/cheaters... They want to know before investing money in that kind of support. Remember? It's all about money.

'

Sounds like if it allows a bunch of bots or cheaters they picked the wrong Anti-Cheat. Anti-cheat is officially supported so it's no different than any other platform at this point.

Imo, that piece of tech is too young for that. Like all new technologies there is a testing phase, if we ever come to the point where AC Proton support can be considered 100% thrustworthy. There is too much money involved.

Quoting: randylYou know what's silly? The 1 - 2% asking for any game support or accommodation at all, while feeling entirely entitled to being treated equally.

Of course they should be treated equally. Are games companies charging Linux users 94% less than Windows users? Or Mac users 90% less than Windows users? And the idea that minority groups should be treated worse because they're a minority is... like... really bad.

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: GuestWhat's stupid is asking a bunch of Linux users to go create an account on your forum to go post a +1 for Proton support

I get your point. I was just saying that I don't think it's only a taunt. I really think they did that to "monitor" the success of the Steam Deck and what could be in it for them.

They have tools behind the scenes on Steam to see all those numbers. This is just theater.

Mmmm... To what purpose? Because, if I think reverse and I'm a Steam Windows user that already got a Ubisoft catalogue in my Steam library and I'm interrested into buying a Steam Deck... How does it shows in the internal Steam stats?

Someone saying they are buying a Deck doesn't mean they actually will do what they said. The data in the forum is 100% baseless and useless info. The tools behind the scenes that I spoke about tell them how many players use Proton etc, which is far more valuable info than random people saying they will do something that they haven't done yet.

Yep, but if I'm a Windows user that reserved a Steam Deck, I'm not using Proton and doesn't show up on any internal stats... Am I wrong?

You're not wrong there. And you can cancel that steam deck order at any time, making what you said useless. There is no tracking or accountability to a forum post so it doesn't really show any real support for anything.

Imo, the "cancel order" argument can go both ways (Linux or Windows). What I would like to know it's what's the best way to know how many Windows users are manifesting interrest in buying the Steam Deck? I'm quite sure that Ubisoft doesn't care for the actual 1% Linux users. They are searching for a way of finding out how many potential converts the Steam Deck will bring.

The best most cost-effective way I can say would be to send Battleye an email, include support for it and see what shakes out. It can't be any easier than that with Valve doing the tech support for them and the porting. What could be done to make it any easier on them?

Doing that could cause a lot of damage to the game, if it's not well tested and then a breach is found that allows lots of new bots/cheaters... They want to know before investing money in that kind of support. Remember? It's all about money.

'

Sounds like if it allows a bunch of bots or cheaters they picked the wrong Anti-Cheat. Anti-cheat is officially supported so it's no different than any other platform at this point.

Imo, that piece of tech is too young for that. Like all new technologies there is a testing phase, if we ever come to the point where AC Proton support can be considered 100% thrustworthy. There is too much money involved.

Game development companies pay anti-cheat companies to offset their resources because they're two totally separate industries. UbiSoft isn't testing against cheats often unless something is off and they're trying to figure it out, which then they would take it up with Battleye. Battleye has released a fully supported version of their anti-cheat to work with Proton, it's no different than any other platform. Saying that there is worry about a new version of Battleye says you are worried the company you paid for anti-cheat support is not doing a good job. I don't feel this has anything at all to do with it.

The only thing I can tell you it's if I was an online game developper, I wouldn't install any AC (Proton or not) without thorough testing... You never put any untested piece of tech on a production system... Ever! Basic IT. Some part of your own software may interfere with the tech and create problems. Proton AC support may be supported, but it doesn't work at kernel level. Completely different approach. It requires testing.

I'll leave it at that.

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: GuestWhat's stupid is asking a bunch of Linux users to go create an account on your forum to go post a +1 for Proton support

I get your point. I was just saying that I don't think it's only a taunt. I really think they did that to "monitor" the success of the Steam Deck and what could be in it for them.

They have tools behind the scenes on Steam to see all those numbers. This is just theater.

Mmmm... To what purpose? Because, if I think reverse and I'm a Steam Windows user that already got a Ubisoft catalogue in my Steam library and I'm interrested into buying a Steam Deck... How does it shows in the internal Steam stats?

Someone saying they are buying a Deck doesn't mean they actually will do what they said. The data in the forum is 100% baseless and useless info. The tools behind the scenes that I spoke about tell them how many players use Proton etc, which is far more valuable info than random people saying they will do something that they haven't done yet.

Yep, but if I'm a Windows user that reserved a Steam Deck, I'm not using Proton and doesn't show up on any internal stats... Am I wrong?

You're not wrong there. And you can cancel that steam deck order at any time, making what you said useless. There is no tracking or accountability to a forum post so it doesn't really show any real support for anything.

Imo, the "cancel order" argument can go both ways (Linux or Windows). What I would like to know it's what's the best way to know how many Windows users are manifesting interrest in buying the Steam Deck? I'm quite sure that Ubisoft doesn't care for the actual 1% Linux users. They are searching for a way of finding out how many potential converts the Steam Deck will bring.

The best most cost-effective way I can say would be to send Battleye an email, include support for it and see what shakes out. It can't be any easier than that with Valve doing the tech support for them and the porting. What could be done to make it any easier on them?

Doing that could cause a lot of damage to the game, if it's not well tested and then a breach is found that allows lots of new bots/cheaters... They want to know before investing money in that kind of support. Remember? It's all about money.

'

Sounds like if it allows a bunch of bots or cheaters they picked the wrong Anti-Cheat. Anti-cheat is officially supported so it's no different than any other platform at this point.

Imo, that piece of tech is too young for that. Like all new technologies there is a testing phase, if we ever come to the point where AC Proton support can be considered 100% thrustworthy. There is too much money involved.

Game development companies pay anti-cheat companies to offset their resources because they're two totally separate industries. UbiSoft isn't testing against cheats often unless something is off and they're trying to figure it out, which then they would take it up with Battleye. Battleye has released a fully supported version of their anti-cheat to work with Proton, it's no different than any other platform. Saying that there is worry about a new version of Battleye says you are worried the company you paid for anti-cheat support is not doing a good job. I don't feel this has anything at all to do with it.

The only thing I can tell you it's if I was an online game developper, I wouldn't install any AC (Proton or not) without thorough testing... You never put any untested piece of tech on a production system... Ever! Basic IT. Some part of your own software may interfere with the tech and create problems. Proton AC support may be supported, but it doesn't work at kernel level. Completely different approach. It requires testing.

I'll leave it at that.

It's always good to run through a test, but it's a button click to active support. It's not changing their code. But sure, they should test the game with it running a bit. You're making a mountain out of a molehill though. Ark and Arma 3 already have it enabled.

Rust too... They were in the original testing pool, when Valve announced they were working on AC Support in Proton... 2 years ago?

Edit: Sorry I think Rust is not ready yet... Am I wrong?


Last edited by Mohandevir on 30 November 2021 at 6:21 pm UTC

Frankly, this is a job for Valve. It was clear from the start that the issues surrounding anti-cheat and DRM were never only technical in nature.

Either use the carrot (Make that 30% cut of the profits into 10% for a developer who supports Proton!) or use the stick (Developer does not support Proton. Sorry, your games are not welcome on Steam!).

...or just go about it the industry standard way and make sure your CEO throws up at the same parties as their CEO.

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: GuestWhat's stupid is asking a bunch of Linux users to go create an account on your forum to go post a +1 for Proton support

I get your point. I was just saying that I don't think it's only a taunt. I really think they did that to "monitor" the success of the Steam Deck and what could be in it for them.

They have tools behind the scenes on Steam to see all those numbers. This is just theater.

Mmmm... To what purpose? Because, if I think reverse and I'm a Steam Windows user that already got a Ubisoft catalogue in my Steam library and I'm interrested into buying a Steam Deck... How does it shows in the internal Steam stats?

Someone saying they are buying a Deck doesn't mean they actually will do what they said. The data in the forum is 100% baseless and useless info. The tools behind the scenes that I spoke about tell them how many players use Proton etc, which is far more valuable info than random people saying they will do something that they haven't done yet.

Yep, but if I'm a Windows user that reserved a Steam Deck, I'm not using Proton and doesn't show up on any internal stats... Am I wrong?

You're not wrong there. And you can cancel that steam deck order at any time, making what you said useless. There is no tracking or accountability to a forum post so it doesn't really show any real support for anything.

Imo, the "cancel order" argument can go both ways (Linux or Windows). What I would like to know it's what's the best way to know how many Windows users are manifesting interrest in buying the Steam Deck? I'm quite sure that Ubisoft doesn't care for the actual 1% Linux users. They are searching for a way of finding out how many potential converts the Steam Deck will bring.

The best most cost-effective way I can say would be to send Battleye an email, include support for it and see what shakes out. It can't be any easier than that with Valve doing the tech support for them and the porting. What could be done to make it any easier on them?

Doing that could cause a lot of damage to the game, if it's not well tested and then a breach is found that allows lots of new bots/cheaters... They want to know before investing money in that kind of support. Remember? It's all about money.

'

Sounds like if it allows a bunch of bots or cheaters they picked the wrong Anti-Cheat. Anti-cheat is officially supported so it's no different than any other platform at this point.

Imo, that piece of tech is too young for that. Like all new technologies there is a testing phase, if we ever come to the point where AC Proton support can be considered 100% thrustworthy. There is too much money involved.

Game development companies pay anti-cheat companies to offset their resources because they're two totally separate industries. UbiSoft isn't testing against cheats often unless something is off and they're trying to figure it out, which then they would take it up with Battleye. Battleye has released a fully supported version of their anti-cheat to work with Proton, it's no different than any other platform. Saying that there is worry about a new version of Battleye says you are worried the company you paid for anti-cheat support is not doing a good job. I don't feel this has anything at all to do with it.

The only thing I can tell you it's if I was an online game developper, I wouldn't install any AC (Proton or not) without thorough testing... You never put any untested piece of tech on a production system... Ever! Basic IT. Some part of your own software may interfere with the tech and create problems. Proton AC support may be supported, but it doesn't work at kernel level. Completely different approach. It requires testing.

I'll leave it at that.

It's always good to run through a test, but it's a button click to active support. It's not changing their code. But sure, they should test the game with it running a bit. You're making a mountain out of a molehill though. Ark and Arma 3 already have it enabled.

Rust too... They were in the original testing pool, when Valve announced they were working on AC Support in Proton... 2 years ago?

Rust uses EAC, which does require updating the SDK and enabling support via the portal. Battleye needs NO code changes at all, just an email. Siege uses Battleye so they will not need to make a single code change, they just need to enable support.

Fair enough... Forgot it was EAC.

I wouldn't jump through these hoops to beg for native support let alone Proton support. If they had some sort of criteria such as "we will work on support if we hit x number of requests" then maybe but this is just a show. They have zero intention of following through but don't want the bad PR of outright saying no.

Here's the funny part, to me...
By merely making this statement, Ubisoft is admitting they're seeing potential that a lot of gamers could be buying the Steam Deck. The stupid part is, I'm betting a vast majority of gamers that get Steam Deck are not going to be Linux users, and, therefore, may have no idea that BattleEye isn't enabled for Linux/Proton and, by extension, Steam Deck. The average gamer may not even equate the two. You'll get a bunch of people buying the awesome looking Steam Deck "console" and be utterly flummoxed when their BattleEye-using Ubisoft game won't run at all because Ubisoft basically only asked Linux users (those paying the closest bit of attention) to post in their forums.

In the end, it's going to look like, to Ubisoft, that virtually none of their player base wants this game on the Steam Deck while the reality is, the vast majority of players that'd be playing on the Steam Deck won't even realize BattleEye and Proton are an issue they need to care about at the moment.

So, I'm not sure of Ubisofts game here. Is their intention to hurt the Steam Deck (and/or Valve) by explicitly setting up something that's going to make the demand seem low... or are they just stupid?

That said, it's all academic to me. I won't knowingly touch Ubisoft or Activision with a 50 foot pole at this time, so...

Quoting: ObsidianBlkHere's the funny part, to me...
By merely making this statement, Ubisoft is admitting they're seeing potential that a lot of gamers could be buying the Steam Deck. The stupid part is, I'm betting a vast majority of gamers that get Steam Deck are not going to be Linux users, and, therefore, may have no idea that BattleEye isn't enabled for Linux/Proton and, by extension, Steam Deck. The average gamer may not even equate the two. You'll get a bunch of people buying the awesome looking Steam Deck "console" and be utterly flummoxed when their BattleEye-using Ubisoft game won't run at all because Ubisoft basically only asked Linux users (those paying the closest bit of attention) to post in their forums.

In the end, it's going to look like, to Ubisoft, that virtually none of their player base wants this game on the Steam Deck while the reality is, the vast majority of players that'd be playing on the Steam Deck won't even realize BattleEye and Proton are an issue they need to care about at the moment.

So, I'm not sure of Ubisofts game here. Is their intention to hurt the Steam Deck (and/or Valve) by explicitly setting up something that's going to make the demand seem low... or are they just stupid?

Much clearer said like this. What will do the average Steam Deck user? Probably storm Ubisoft's forums with support requests? Maybe... But I think it as more to do with bad planning than "evil scheming".


Last edited by Mohandevir on 30 November 2021 at 6:56 pm UTC

I think that we all should just calm down a bit here. This is not Ubisoft making any form of statement, this is just some poor sod working as a support rep at Ubisoft trying to answer a request in a friendly way. This rep have zero insight into what Ubisoft are planning to do or not to do, so all he/she can do that doesn't sound negative is to say "well why don't you all write down that you want it and then I could send that list upwards".

Ubisoft have 19000+ employees, there are probably max 40 of them that have any knowledge of their direction and support reps are way way down on the ladder.