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PayPalThere's always arguments across many angles on what exactly Linux needs to succeed to become more mainstream and the answer, as we've long said, is pretty simple.
Hardware. Pre-installed. That's it.
Honestly, it really is that simple. There's a fair bit of that now already with the likes of System76, Slimbook, TUXEDO , Star Labs and others I'm forgetting. However, none of those are particularly known outside of Linux circles (TUXEDO claim otherwise). Even if they're slowly pulling in newer non-Linuxy customers, they're still tiny and often expensive. Other vendors like Dell and Lenovo may have a few but they're often harder to find. It's a bit like the old Linux gaming loop — people don't want to switch due to "no games" and developers don't want to support directly due to "no users". Vendors don't often do it because they don't perceive there to be enough interest.
Writing in a fresh blog post titled "What desktop Linux needs to succeed in the mainstream", KDE developer Nate Graham agrees and I couldn't have put it better if I tried:
People get hung up a lot on features and usability, and these are important. But they’re means to an end and not good enough ends by themselves. Quality means nothing if people can’t get it. And people can’t get it without accessible distribution. High quality Linux distros aren’t enough; they need to be pre-installed on hardware products you can buy in mainstream retail stores! “The mainstream” buys products they can touch and hold; if you can’t find it in a mainstream store, it doesn’t exist.
Creating good distributions and good applications with good gaming support is only one small piece of the puzzle. We're not just talking about people going into stores to look at laptops and desktops to try them out though. The bigger known online stores and vendors, we need them to start stocking and properly advertising Linux systems too. Not just that though, the systems need to look good and work well for the vendors themselves, to also be interested in stocking them.
Graham believes that KDE continues to be in a good position to serve their needs too, noting the belief that hardware vendors look for these points:
- Flexibility. Your software has to be easily adaptable to whatever kind of device they have without tons of custom engineering they’ll be on the hook for supporting over the product’s lifecycle.
- Features that make their devices look good. Support for its physical hardware characteristics, good performance, a pleasant-looking user interface… reasons for people to buy it, basically.
- Stability. Can’t crash and dump users at a command line terminal prompt. Has to actually work. Can’t feel like a hobbyist science fair project.
- Usability that’s to be good enough to minimize support costs. When something goes wrong, “the mainstream” contacts their hardware vendor. Usability needs to be good enough so that this happens as infrequently as possible.
For KDE specifically all this is slowly coming together with more products going for KDE and Plasma like Valve with the Steam Deck, Pine with the PinePhone / PineBook Pro, the KDE Slimbook and the Kubuntu Focus. The point remains though - bigger mainstream vendors are essential.
The biggest push may indeed come from the Steam Deck. A PC in a handheld form factor, that allows you to hook it up to a monitor for a full KDE Plasma desktop experience. Very exciting. If we see a lot of people enjoy it and the Steam Deck is a success, you can be almost guaranteed that more devices will come along and slap SteamOS 3 on it and then also have a KDE Plasma desktop available. The knock-on effect could be seen elsewhere, with more people wanting to use KDE Plasma and then hopefully more vendors and we may even see a loop there with it finally being picked up more often.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Yeah, aside from what I'd call enthusiast hardware, which is aimed at people who are able to, and probably want to, install Linux themselves, there really isn't much in a way of mainstream hardware that ships with Linux pre-installed. (If we ignore Google's Linux based derivates like Android and ChromeOS)
I don't think the Steam Deck will directly mean that 2022 will be the "the year of Linux on the desktop", but it really is an important stepping stone for more people to take notice of the platform.
Edit: The only problem with more vendors shipping with Linux as an alternative to Windows is that Microsoft is not just going to take it. Call me cynical but I am fairly sure there'd be kickbacks and incentives involved if that were the case.
Last edited by vildravn on 14 December 2021 at 11:01 am UTC
I don't think the Steam Deck will directly mean that 2022 will be the "the year of Linux on the desktop", but it really is an important stepping stone for more people to take notice of the platform.
Edit: The only problem with more vendors shipping with Linux as an alternative to Windows is that Microsoft is not just going to take it. Call me cynical but I am fairly sure there'd be kickbacks and incentives involved if that were the case.
Last edited by vildravn on 14 December 2021 at 11:01 am UTC
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Hardware. Pre-installed. That's it.
Honestly, it really is that simple.
I disagree. I remember when netbooks (those small computers) started being a thing, most of them were at first shipped with Linux preinstalled. People just favored those having Windows on it, and then the market adapted and ended up selling them almost only with Vista.
Also, when people are forced to use Linux in some countries, like in Germany or in France for police or administration, the workers are usually not happy about it from what I heard, Linux was and still is built on a non-mainstream philosophy which is… tech passionate and open source.
It's intended for people who like to tweak their machine at least to some extent, because, as soon as you have a problem, you are on your own (most people don't try to fix their problem themselves). Of course if you just use a web browser, and read your mails, you don't really care. My grand parents are using Linux. But they do because I introduced it, and I fix their problems when they have some.
Furthermore there is the "free software" or "open source" philosophy that is hard for mainstream people to understand, and honestly, they don't care… why the hell would they? The concept of "source code" don't even ring a bell to them. Even I, as a developer, don't watch most of the code I'm running.
If you want to change people's habits, you better have a good reason.
And even reason isn't enough! Just look at qwerty layout… it was first designed to overcome a mechanical problem on typewriters. Those problem don't exist on modern keyboards, and there exist better designed keyboard layouts, such as dvorak. Does the fact a better alternative exist change the fact that qwerty is used? No
I remember as a kid, I wondered why the keyboard wasn't simply the alphabetic order. Why did I naturally expect that? Because that's what I was used to. Once I was used to qwerty, it required an effort to learn how to use a dvorak based keyboard, and not many people would do this effort.
So my conclusion would be. People don't care about principles, only a minority does. If you want people to use something, force them to do so, or introduce that one thing in the first place. To be "mainstream", at least for future generations, it needs to be introduced to kids first, with obviously the fancy stuff, like video games :p
That's my 2 cents on the subject.
Last edited by toor on 14 December 2021 at 11:33 am UTC
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Just being preinstalled on machines is not enough. It needs to be preinstalled on the brands that people actually buy (Acer, Asus, HP etc), available in the stores people actually buy from (Argos, PC World, Currys etc) and priced comparatively or cheaper than the Windows variants.
As Nate says in his blog post, linux desktop marketing should be focused on hardware OEMs rather than end users.
I'd like to disagree, I think Linux does a terrible job at servicing it's own demographic and focuses way too hard on the others... For me it sucks that the only Linux available Laptops are the bottom of the barrel Dells and Thinkpads, it sucks that the Pinephone feels like the 70$ Android crap you buy off Amazon.
I'd like to have a device that caters to the demographic of Linux power users. Sysadmins who want cool tech, and have a stable job. Don't get me wrong, it's awesome that you can get the cheap offerings we have now, but they don't get me excited.
Steam / Valve, in my opinion, is doing a great job with the Deck this time. The device is expensive, but it's something you WANT to get. I want to save up some cash to splurge on it, because it's cool without the Linux aspect, and the fact that Valve is open to people tinkering with it makes it even cooler.
I'd like to see this trend move over to phones and computers too. I don't mind if I have to shill out 2,500 dollars for a Laptop to get Linux. It sucks that I have to buy something that just feels 2014 when compared to the Macbooks and high-end Windows Laptops that my peers rock.
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I remember when netbooks (those small computers) started being a thing...heavily underpowered devices that couldn't really run all that much. I remember, I had multiple of them. I don't think the experience of those devices over 10 years ago has any real relevance on what happens in 2022+. As long as vendors don't repeat the mistakes of putting it on only super low-end devices.
Edit: added a link from TUXEDO that claim otherwise about being known outside Linux circles.
Last edited by Liam Dawe on 14 December 2021 at 11:54 am UTC
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I remember when netbooks (those small computers) started being a thing...heavily underpowered devices that couldn't really run all that much. I remember, I had multiple of them. I don't think the experience of those devices over 10 years ago has any real relevance on what happens in 2022+. As long as vendors don't repeat the mistakes of putting it on only super low-end devices.
The fact they were underpowered was actually probably the reason Linux was preinstalled instead of Windows Vista in the first place, because it made sense on a technical aspect. Yet people would rather buy those with Vista.
You think the power of the device is the big deal there? I would assume that you mean for games then, since you can run a web browser even on a raspberry pi. Well, I know a lot of developers who work with Linux every day and yet use Windows to play at home, and find me crazy to play on Linux, they are even surprised when I tell them it's decent enough to play on now.
Yet they have a powerful machine, and definitely know how to install Linux. So even among techies, Linux isn't even considered for gaming.
Steam deck is a great idea as it is not presented as Linux, the main thing is the device… gaming, the end user doesn't care which OS it runs.
Also Android is used a lot, and most people don't care that it runs a Linux kernel. It could take over because the concept was new: They could buy a smartphone cheaper than the iPhones, and well… it goes with this thing, Android. Now they are used to Android, good luck to make them change it.
Last edited by toor on 14 December 2021 at 12:03 pm UTC
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I think people are getting sidetracked here due to their own beliefs on what should happen. The reality is, IMO, as the article is just trying to convey - is that the masses / mainstream won't pick it up, if they can't see it to buy it. We need the bigger vendors jumping in. Valve is, and it's a fantastic start. I'm calling it the start, as we don't talk about Steam Machines :P
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I remember that in the Revolution OS, Linus said that nobody really uses the operating system because people use programs. Seriously, we can't force people to use Linux on all popular computers because they will remove it after buying it.
In my view, Linux is an excellent alternative for other versions of Unix like Solaris, BSD, AIX, HP-UX Mac OS X, and so on. We can't compete with Windows and all companies that support it.
However, the main focus of Linux users should be buying more software and games than macOS users. We don't need users that criticize Apple because companies don't get any money from them. They don't need them.
I remember that Linux was more popular than Mac for more than a few years. However, we lost with loyal users that support companies that have published applications for Mac.
In my view, Linux is an excellent alternative for other versions of Unix like Solaris, BSD, AIX, HP-UX Mac OS X, and so on. We can't compete with Windows and all companies that support it.
However, the main focus of Linux users should be buying more software and games than macOS users. We don't need users that criticize Apple because companies don't get any money from them. They don't need them.
I remember that Linux was more popular than Mac for more than a few years. However, we lost with loyal users that support companies that have published applications for Mac.
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The reality is, IMO, as the article is just trying to convey - is that the masses / mainstream won't pick it up, if they can't see it to buy it. We need the bigger vendors jumping in.
I have to disagree with the sentiment though. I think the bigger issue Linux has is that it tries to cater to the mainstream too much. Most people I talk with would not buy a laptop with Linux even if I glued it to their faces.
People on the Linux side have been burned by the other platforms, we hate that Windows takes away control from us and forces telemetry on us when we said no, we hate that our phone decides when we can take a screenshot, we love the fact that Linux just lets us do dumb stuff with our machines whenever we just write sudo in front of a command.
Linux treats me like an adult.
We are enthusiasts, we consider our computers our hobby, we like to tinker, we know how to back up our files, and we know how to restore it if we wreck the operating system. If people aren't willing to do those things, then they need a platform that babysits them. But that's always gonna end up being more like Android, iOS or Chrome OS. With a locked bootloader and limited freedoms.
Google has successfully mainstreamed Linux twice. Because they know that what the Linux desktop user wants is not what the average user wants.
Mainstream wants a platform that works. I consider myself a Linux enthusiast and even I wouldn't consider a Pinephone or Librem as my daily drivers. They're clunky and buggy and lack a ton of basic features that just need to work. And I'm not talking about app support, just a working UI, more than 4 hours of battery life, working settings and browser would do it.
I think the people creating these products should stop caring so much about mainstream and start to try and figure out who is downloading their OS and what hardware these people want to buy.
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I have to disagree with the sentiment though. I think the bigger issue Linux has is that it tries to cater to the mainstream too much. Most people I talk with would not buy a laptop with Linux even if I glued it to their faces.There is no alternative. You cannot keep appealing to the same set of users, that isn't big enough to grow and attract more vendors.
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There is no alternative. You cannot keep appealing to the same set of users, that isn't big enough to grow and attract more vendors.
We have yet to satisfy our own demographic. There's a huge amount of churn on Linux, users that are curious, try it and don't stick. And yet we're slowly getting there.
* The steam survey says we're slowly becoming more.
* Some vendors are starting to pop up.
My point is that the vendors we have produce hardware that we do not want, and that computer enthusiasts as a whole are not excited about. Their only selling point is that they run Linux. Which is not a strong selling point to the mainstream.
There's no way in hell a Pinephone would outsell the iPhone at a regular retailer, even considering you can buy half a dozen Pinephones for the price of an iPhone. The moment that people realize that it lags when scrolling and has a hard time playing a Youtube video, they're out.
You don't see tech channels getting excited about the rebadged Chinese laptops that the Linux vendors come up with, and you see very lukewarm reviews for any Linux based handset. The Linux hardware market is just boring, and you're usually better off buying the Windows device and replacing the OS.
I get your point that the Hardware not being in their faces doesn't expose them to it. But I'd argue the Steam Deck and the Raspberry are the only competitive products we got in the ring (hardware-wise). And I can buy Raspberries at normal electronics stores and the Deck has huge hype behind it.
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as soon as you have a problem, you are on your own
What?
I don't know how it is with MacOS but troubleshooting Linux is certainly better than Windows. With Windows you get an error code that looks like a phone number that neither you nor Microsoft knows what it means, you got to an MS forum and someone will throw down the same classic list of: 1) make sure you're connected to the internet 2) try turning off the firewall 3) run sfc in cmd. How is that user friendly at all?
Also, try running as administrator because why not.
Linux distros usually have bug trackers, mailing list, GitHub Issues where actual devs can answer. And with Linux if you're willing you can actually dig down and find out what's the problem, even contribute to fixing it.
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All users visiting this website can install AROS or Haiku OS on their computers, and companies don't even notice or care about it.
They will see how much money they get for applications for Linux and Mac. In this case, they will know which operating system should support. Users of an operating system that doesn't generate enough money get an incredibly beautiful message about discontinuing support for their platform.
Github? Bug trackers? What are you talking about?
That is the answer that I get from people that aren't computer enthusiasts.
Last edited by gbudny on 14 December 2021 at 1:41 pm UTC
They will see how much money they get for applications for Linux and Mac. In this case, they will know which operating system should support. Users of an operating system that doesn't generate enough money get an incredibly beautiful message about discontinuing support for their platform.
Linux distros usually have bug trackers, mailing list, GitHub Issues where actual devs can answer. And with Linux if you're willing you can actually dig down and find out what's the problem, even contribute to fixing it.
Github? Bug trackers? What are you talking about?
That is the answer that I get from people that aren't computer enthusiasts.
Last edited by gbudny on 14 December 2021 at 1:41 pm UTC
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There's no way in hell a Pinephone would outsell the iPhone at a regular retailer, even considering you can buy half a dozen Pinephones for the price of an iPhone. The moment that people realize that it lags when scrolling and has a hard time playing a Youtube video, they're out.Pinephone is ridiculously far from being a mainstream device. Their target market is pretty clear: Linux users and FOSS fans. Comparing them to an iphone is a bit ridiculous.
I get your point that the Hardware not being in their faces doesn't expose them to it. But I'd argue the Steam Deck and the Raspberry are the only competitive products we got in the ring (hardware-wise). And I can buy Raspberries at normal electronics stores and the Deck has huge hype behind it.Both of those help to prove my point. Raspberry Pi is well-known and the official OS is Linux. Steam Deck is already well known, will likely sell well and runs Linux.
As for previous points:
Google has successfully mainstreamed Linux twice. Because they know that what the Linux desktop user wants is not what the average user wants.Because they're:
A) Google, well known.
B) Sold everywhere.
Literally everything goes back to the same thing: bigger names putting them in front of people, the point of the article.
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pleasereadthemanual Dec 14, 2021
I have to disagree with the sentiment though. I think the bigger issue Linux has is that it tries to cater to the mainstream too much. Most people I talk with would not buy a laptop with Linux even if I glued it to their faces.There is no alternative. You cannot keep appealing to the same set of users, that isn't big enough to grow and attract more vendors.
In my opinion, the problem isn't that GNU/Linux distributions try to cater to mainstream users; the problem is that they're bad at it. By which I mean there are simply too many things that are janky or outright worse than on mainstream desktop operating systems; OBS, Anki, Audacity, all open source applications, are a categorically worse experience on GNU/Linux. And those are the open source ones!
Another user brought up Revolution OS (great documentary, by the way), where Linus says that users use programs, not operating systems. And this is completely true. For the mainstream user, if they can't use Microsoft Office on GNU/Linux, it's game over. Libreoffice simply cannot guarantee .docx compatibility because, even if it's an open standard, it's quite complex and it's still a moving target. Maybe other office suites are better. Is that user going to try 5 of them until they find something that works well enough?
Adobe Creative Suite is not available on GNU/Linux. No other application can guarantee .PSD/.AEP/.INDD compatibility, even if there are better alternatives, like Affinity Creative Suite (which also isn't on GNU/Linux). The problem, of course, is a reliance on an application-specific format (a moving target, never intended to be exchanged, quite complex) just like Microsoft Office instead of an exchange format like Open Raster.
And these are the popular applications—people I know are entrenched in much less popular Windows-only applications that would also make a different OS a deal-breaker.
Honestly, I see a darker future than that. Here are the headlines from 2035's newspapers (most countries have stopped publishing newspapers in print by this point and you can only get them online, and you still can't cancel without ringing up and being put on hold for 2 hours):
Microsoft makes brave new move. Takes a page from Google and starts selling Microbooks.
These laptops run on a locked down version of Fuchsia, and after the customer pays with Google Pay, Apple Pay, or Microsoft Pay, they can gain access to Windows 365 and run a computer in the cloud! Great option for those on a budget. Microsoft also offers the same experience with Soft Desk, a tower PC option. ASUS, Acer, and other manufacturers have come out with similar CAAS (Computing-as-a-Service) hardware clients with their own branding.
Traditional computing systems are falling out of favor and are left to the hobbyist market to assemble themselves. To install Windows, Microsoft requires a security peripheral be installed and present at all times to guarantee a genuine experience.
Personally, and I try to be optimistic, I think the core problem isn't the applications, although that is a part of it. People can get over that. They do with macOS software. The real problem is a lack of interoperability between applications in the same field. The film industry has this with .AAF exchange format files, though not working in that field, I couldn't tell you how well it works. If there were a reliable, open exchange format for Microsoft Office, Adobe Photoshop, Adobe inDesign, and Adobe After Effects, I would have absolutely no reason not to use 100% free software for my personal life and work. It would certainly allow for a more even playing field for underdogs like Affinity Serif.
As it stands, After Effects only supports AAF import on Windows, and recently removed the ability to import AAF from macOS versions.
Chromebooks have won the battle for some users by taking all these workflows to the web, where Linux shines, but there are some workflows that will never be able to be taken to the web...at least not for a long time. I mean, I guess there is Photopea...
I think the battle is in quality exchange formats that every application is pressured to support, not in porting over proprietary applications to GNU/Linux.
Of course, for those niche Windows-only workflows and software, some people will still have to have it around. But that's a far better position to be in; it's the one macOS is in now (minus hobbyist gaming; they're doing pretty well with mobile gaming).
I don't mean to be harsh; just realistic.
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Both of those help to prove my point. Raspberry Pi is well-known and the official OS is Linux. Steam Deck is already well known, will likely sell well and runs Linux.
Raspberry Pi is a computer for people that treat it as a toy. I don't even think about commercial games because we know that Runesoft was almost completely ignored by them.
https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=23253
I don't even see too many posts on their forums about Conquest of Elysium 4.
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Pinephone is ridiculously far from being a mainstream device. Their target market is pretty clear: Linux users and FOSS fans. Comparing them to an iphone is a bit ridiculous.
And not even FOSS enthusiasts are raving about it. Yes, they're selling, but they're not turning heads.
Literally everything goes back to the same thing: bigger names putting them in front of people, the point of the article.
No, Google knew what they wanted to offer. Chrome OS doesn't do anything new, they just pulled an Apple and packaged it nicely so the consumer would like it. The consumer for Chrome OS is not a computer enthusiast, the mainstream consumer isn't, they just want a browser and an OS that doesn't get in their way when they're browsing Facebook.
People don't buy Chromebooks because of the brand recognition, Google advertises the fact that they boot fast, have a long battery life and have an immutable root filesystem. I don't think any Linux enthusiast would be thrilled about the latter.
Both of those help to prove my point. Raspberry Pi is well-known and the official OS is Linux. Steam Deck is already well known, will likely sell well and runs Linux.
The Raspberry Pi was not a big name, it was something that people wanted. It's small, cheap and versatile, which is exactly what they need to be for their application. They're a great way to automate stuff or even play retro games, but it's not a good desktop platform and it hasn't replaced basic Windows machines there either. I would consider the Pi to be a smash success for Linux, without having ever really catered to the mainstream.
If somebody wants to use a Pi to automate something, they have to learn Linux and get acquainted with the Philosophy. The Pi is not trying to be something it isn't. It's a tinkering device and it doesn't try to be anything but that.
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And not even FOSS enthusiasts are raving about it. Yes, they're selling, but they're not turning heads.Don't know why you keep on at this. Like I said, it's nothing to do with mainstream and it's not their target. You are, however, proving my point. Simply targeting the existing market isn't enough.
No, Google knew what they wanted to offer...*snip*If you think downplaying that Google, one of the biggest companies on the planet isn't responsible for selling products based on the fact that they're one of the biggest you're mad. Names sell, it's true of everything.
I'm also not arguing for plain Linux. Look at System76 as an example, they're heavily investing into Pop to make it appeal to more people, and it's clearly working for them. They're constantly growing and expanding, because they're not just trying to pull in Linux fans.
People don't buy Chromebooks because of the brand recognition, Google advertises the fact that they boot fast, have a long battery life and have an immutable root filesystem. I don't think any Linux enthusiast would be thrilled about the latter.Again, you're just helping my point here. They're not targetting plain Linux users. You said this that Linux "tries to cater to the mainstream too much", I say very clearly: not enough, not even close...yet. Work is being done towards it but it's not enough.
The Raspberry Pi was not a big nameNo, but again, they appealed to a much more mainstream audience and not normal Linux users.
Honestly, I'm just repeating myself. Bigger names doing Linux and appealing to the mainstream. It's not enough to make Plasma or GNOME good, there needs to be the devices out there for people to buy easily and recognisable. I won't personally debate it any further, as I will just end up repeating myself again and again ;)
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Adobe Creative Suite is not available on GNU/Linux.
FWIW Adobe is starting to explore having their Creative Cloud suite on the web, including barebones variants of Photoshop and Illustrator. It is quite likely that over time, these will become more fully fledged options and the rest of CC will follow. As much as I'm not a fan of everything moving over to the cloud, the trend will make Linux a more viable option in the mainstream.
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pleasereadthemanual Dec 14, 2021
After Effects is painful enough on fairly beefy native hardware, without a monstrosity that Parabola keeps out of their repositories because it was too large and complex to verify it was fully free software (Chromium) between it. Premiere Pro, for similar reasons, I don't see happening for a long, long time. Photoshop and Illustrator, I can see.Adobe Creative Suite is not available on GNU/Linux.
FWIW Adobe is starting to explore having their Creative Cloud suite on the web, including barebones variants of Photoshop and Illustrator. It is quite likely that over time, these will become more fully fledged options and the rest of CC will follow. As much as I'm not a fan of everything moving over to the cloud, the trend will make Linux a more viable option in the mainstream.
inDesign...the web is going to need a lot more optimization before I can start laying out books in a webapp.
Photoshop is in the best state of all of the Adobe applications, really. You've got web-based solutions like Photopea already, and Affinity Photo has great support for .PSD (except for editable text, which may or may not be a deal-breaker).
But, if they somehow manage to work it out, that would certainly be great for me. Especially if I don't have to have so many Adobe background processes...
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Again, you're just helping my point here. They're not targetting plain Linux users. You said this that Linux "tries to cater to the mainstream too much", I say very clearly: not enough, not even close...yet. Work is being done towards it but it's not enough.
You're making the point that what matters to a Desktop Linux user is what matters to a mainstream user. The mainstream user wants Chrome OS and I want Debian, and none of us would be happy with the other's platform. I would argue that there's no platform that will make both of us happy.
I'm also not arguing for plain Linux. Look at System76 as an example, they're heavily investing into Pop to make it appeal to more people, and it's clearly working for them. They're constantly growing and expanding, because they're not just trying to pull in Linux fans.
Well, Linus sure hated it anyway. The problem was not that Pop is bad, but the fact that he had the wrong expectations for it. Linux isn't a drop in replacement for Windows.
Yet, System76 is the only vendor that has an appealing product to proper enthusiasts in the desktop space. At least in my opinion. The Thelios line is expensive but looks premium and would make me proud to own and I wouldn't feel like a second class citizen among peers. It's like the Mac Pro of Linux. And they have those amazing looking keyboards too. I feel like they understand what enthusiasts want and buy.
As a polar opposite, my Tuxedo machine was a horrible disappointment. Poor choices in materials, cheap components and I replaced it really soon as my daily driver.
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