Were you hoping to easily play Fortnite on the upcoming Steam Deck? Well, Tim Sweeney the Epic Games CEO has made it clear that it's not going to happen officially. The thing to remember right now is that both Easy Anti-Cheat and BattlEye do support Linux. Both for native Linux builds and for Windows games run through Steam Play Proton. However, it's all user-space with no Kernel modules.
On Twitter, user Stormy178 asked if there were plans to make Fortnite compatible with Steam Play Proton to which Sweeney replied:
Fortnite no, but there's a big effort underway to maximize Easy Anti Cheat compatibility with Steam Deck.
The questioning continued and when asked why, Sweeney followed up with:
We don’t have confidence that we’d be able to combat cheating at scale under a wide array of kernel configurations including custom ones.
Another user mentioned it seemed that Epic's CEO didn't trust their own product, Sweeney obviously couldn't let that remain unanswered with:
With regard to anti-cheat on the Linux platform supporting custom kernels and the threat model to a game of Fortnite's size, YES THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT!
In a number of ways, he's actually right. Windows is closed source, so is the NT Kernel and usually 99% of drivers for it are too. Client-side anti-cheat obviously relies a lot on security by obscurity, so people can't see everything it's doing. This is part of the problem on Linux, where the Kernel and practically all development on it is done right out in the open and it changes rapidly. Developing anti-cheat against such an open Kernel probably isn't going to be even remotely easy. There will be ways though, especially if something like the Steam Deck had a fully signed Kernel and some sort of guarantee it's being used - probably numerous ways smarter people know of.
Really though, overall it doesn't give a lot of confidence for developers who might be looking to hook up their anti-cheat ready for their games to work on the Steam Deck.
The big difference it seems, is the size of the playerbase and how much of a target each game is. Sweeney is not saying it's not suitable as a whole, just that Fortnite is a massive target for cheaters:
The threat model for anti-cheat varies per game based on the number of active players and ability to gain profit by selling cheats or gain prominence by cheating. Hence anti-cheat which suffices for one game may not for another game with 10, 100, or 1000 times more players.
One user followed up by suggesting it was just a case of Sweeney not wanting Fortnite on a "rival's platform", to which Sweeney gave this answer:
Epic would be happy to put Fortnite on Steam. We wouldn't be happy to give Steam 20-30% of its revenue for the privilege. Supporting Steam Deck hardware is a separate issue, but the market for non-Steam-hosted games on limited availability Steam Deck hardware is how big exactly?
With that in mind, you're going to need Windows or to stream it via GeForce NOW on the Steam Deck. At least for games without such anti-cheat, you should be able to use the Heroic Games Launcher on the Steam Deck.
It does mean there's space open for another game to take its place on the Steam Deck officially.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
Last edited by Appelsin on 9 February 2022 at 11:47 am UTC
Quoting: F.Ultrathere is no need for cheaters to force Fortnite to work on the Steam Deck in order to cheat, they can cheat right now using Windows
Soooo... Your logic is that since they also have a challenge to tackle cheats on other platforms, they might just as well expand the attack vector?
I mean... That is what you are saying here.
Last edited by Beamboom on 9 February 2022 at 1:27 pm UTC
Quoting: AppelsinFortnite won't come to the Steam Deck because it is the Steam Deck, not because of "issues" with EAC. I think it's that simple.
The EPIC is driven by money, so if the Steam Deck will be success (and I hope it will be), they will probably change their decision.
They can even create a proper EPIC Store client for Linux, if there is a demand for it. Man can just dream :-)
SirBubbles Feb 9, 2022
Quoting: GuestQuoting: SirBubblesNot at all. It would only be verified as supporting the SD kernel. That kernel would also be available for other users on other distros, so it would hardly lock FortNite (shudder) to the SD distro alone.
You can't transplant a kernel to any other system like that because it's the build that's verified, not the source. It might possibly work in some cases, and would most definitely not in others. There are other reasons it wouldn't work and be pointless anyway from a technical perspective (let alone be incredibly bad for a multitude of moral reasons).
That's a bit of a problem, wouldn't that involve digitally signing an entire SteamOS install? What if someone installs a few flatpaks from the package manager, or removes something? Or changes something in the configuration?
Unless you meant something else, I think it's difficult to verify an entire distro as a single signed version, when there are going to be changes of some kind inevitably.
Also, regarding the kernel, that would entirely depend on how it was certified. Considering that is a moot point, as Epic aren't going to do it regardless, it's not a big deal.
I was only trying to establish that the claim by Sweeney about distro/kernel fragmentation was provably wrong in that way, and that somehow enabling Fortnite for the SD wouldn't lock it to SteamOS alone.
Quoting: pbQuoting: elmapulhave we checked the size and weight of that thing? if linus from linus tech tips complained that his hand were too small to press some buttons with confort, imagine that thing in the hands of a kid!
i think this device might not be apropriate for kids, it may not be targeted at it either, so its not only not gonna direct compete with an switch, but will be too much affected by the lack of fortinite.
It's just a portable gaming PC, you can connect any controller and put the deck on the table or connect it to a tv. If the grip is too big for a kid, it doesn't mean the device is useless. Anyway lots of teens are pretty big I'd say. ;-)
by useless i mean to be used in it intended main use case (portable), it cant replace an gameboy when you are in school recess for example.
but you're right i forgot about the other use cases
Last edited by elmapul on 9 February 2022 at 4:10 pm UTC
Quoting: SirBubblesWhen FortNite comes crashing down (as it must at some point) Epic will likely go with it, as that is what mostly funds Epic as a whole.
better not hold your breath then, it may be a fad that people forget after a few days, or may become part of pop culture like pokemon, mario and zelda and be there to stay, forever.
maybe not as popular as its now, but with so many crossovers as they're doing, i think its very unlikely that they will lose popularity
slaapliedje Feb 9, 2022
Quoting: F.UltraSo did a quick google (since Fortnite is not a game that I have ever played, and since I don't use cheats) and the first response was to https://www.iwantcheats.net/fortnite-hacks-cheats-glitches-aimbot/ which have a long list of cheats for Fortnite, that works on Windows 10 and Windows 11./me puts on his conspiracy generator hat;
The cheats are sold for money so there are monetary incentives to break EAC which points back to my earlier post that Windows is open source if you are a hacker. Not only does the closed source of Windows help it in any way possible, we can also see that Epic is lying out their teeth, there is no need for cheaters to force Fortnite to work on the Steam Deck in order to cheat, they can cheat right now using Windows (and they also carry cheats for consoles).
EAC only keeps out the amateurs, and the amateurs wouldn't know where to begin to create Linux kernel drivers in the first place either so this is all moot.
Maybe it is less about the hacking of Windows than it is Sweeney & Co selling an 'API' to EAC so that people can create tools to break it, so they can cheat. I mean Fortnite should be making money with whatever means are necessary, right? And if the tools to cheat are sold, it's potentially to recoup any funds spent on getting access to the keyhole, so to speak.
Since the motives are there to make a ton of money, this is a conspiracy that'd make sense. Isn't Fortnite one of those 'Free' games? Got to monetize it from every aspect point...
slaapliedje Feb 9, 2022
Quoting: GuestJust a 'eac-dkms' package? :P Granted that would likely violate something, and people generally don't like seeing that their kernel is tainted with some non-GPL code :PQuoting: SirBubblesQuoting: GuestQuoting: SirBubblesNot at all. It would only be verified as supporting the SD kernel. That kernel would also be available for other users on other distros, so it would hardly lock FortNite (shudder) to the SD distro alone.
You can't transplant a kernel to any other system like that because it's the build that's verified, not the source. It might possibly work in some cases, and would most definitely not in others. There are other reasons it wouldn't work and be pointless anyway from a technical perspective (let alone be incredibly bad for a multitude of moral reasons).
That's a bit of a problem, wouldn't that involve digitally signing an entire SteamOS install? What if someone installs a few flatpaks from the package manager, or removes something? Or changes something in the configuration?
Unless you meant something else, I think it's difficult to verify an entire distro as a single signed version, when there are going to be changes of some kind inevitably.
Also, regarding the kernel, that would entirely depend on how it was certified. Considering that is a moot point, as Epic aren't going to do it regardless, it's not a big deal.
I was only trying to establish that the claim by Sweeney about distro/kernel fragmentation was provably wrong in that way, and that somehow enabling Fortnite for the SD wouldn't lock it to SteamOS alone.
I was referring to that a compiled kernel from one distro cannot simply be copied into the boot process of another distro and be expected to work. It might work, and for many cases indeed will with a little bit of messing around, but it's not exactly guaranteed and there can easily be a large proportion of the OS that will simply fall over if tried.
Sweeney has half-truths in his statements, but there there are reasons that e.g nvidia might often need to push out a new driver to support new kernels. API, ABI, glibc versions, etc etc etc. It's certainly more maintenance effort, but he's also very misleading in trying to blow it incredibly far out of proportion, not to mention that any anti-cheat trying to hook into the kernel that needs such a level of maintenance is a _very_ Bad Idea(tm) for security.
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