For people who watch SteamDB updates, there's been a little bit of confusion on how Valve has been testing titles ready for the release of the Steam Deck on February 25. They've now fully clarified.
The issue surrounds what version they will pick for Deck Verified when games have a Native Linux build. There were a number that appeared on SteamDB, noting Steam Play Proton as the runtime picked instead (meaning the Windows build was used). As example, an update for Portal 2 on SteamDB (their own game) shows the recommended runtime being Proton. Turns out, this was not intended.
Valve shared via email (making clear this was not embargoed info): "early on, there were a limited number of titles that were tested via Proton before Linux before we made some policy changes. Since then all of those titles are already back in the queue for re-testing using their Linux builds".
Additionally, the developer documentation has been updated (right at the bottom) to state:
If my game has a native Linux version and is selected for review heuristically, will the compatibility review take place on the Linux build or under Proton?
By default, we will test a Linux build if one is available. If the Linux build fails compatibility tests or otherwise experiences significant issues, we'll then test the Windows build of your game running under Proton. Our goal is for customers to have the smoothest experience possible on Deck, so we'll submit whichever set of test results is more favorable.
Your compatibility test results will specify what runtime they were generated on. You can see details in the "Details" section of your report under the "Recommended Runtime" field.
If you believe we tested the wrong version of your product, you can always submit for a re-review and specify the platform you'd like us to test.
Something to remember: nothing is final, and even after the Steam Deck releases the Deck Verified program will be an ongoing thing. No doubt there will be changes to how it's run after release too as they continue to try and give players the best experience.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Quoting: BielFPsBut I wonder how they'll handle cases like Borderlands 2 that, while having a "performant" native build, the last DLC can only be played through Proton.
That's probably one of those cases they don't think of until someone brings it to their notice.
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Quoting: BielFPsI always thought Dying Light really played well under linux. I did a lot of time with my steam machine.QuoteIf the Linux build fails compatibility tests or otherwise experiences significant issues, we'll then test the Windows build of your game running under Proton.Judging by this message, I bet Dying Light will be one of those games who will be opted to run on Proton by default despise having a "native" version.
But somethink like ARK: survival evolved, or ETS, or ATS, I play them on Proton.
They did fine when they were linux native, but now proton seems to work better. Because proton is vulkan, and all these titles are doing opengl.
Maybe that's also the issue with Dying Light. Steam machines always had an nvidia card. So maybe it was an nvidia vs AMD opengl "compatibility" issue. (Made for nvidia)
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Quoting: pete910The native build apparently has controller support so don't se why they would. It certainly runs well on AMD hardware in Linux so no reason why it won't on the deck !
Quoting: slaapliedjeHuh, Dying Light ran awesome natively for me. Granted I don't know if running under Proton makes it run better, as I had no reason to test it.Dying Light port was made using OpenGL, so even the extra hurdle of converting DX -> Vulkan through Proton still performs better. Unfortunately Vulkan wasn't a option back then.
Quoting: pete910BL2's situation is embarrassing to be frank. The port from Asprey runs really well but basically it's abandoned from the looks of it. Whether thats due to Gearbox or whomever I don't know. Could be the deal/license has run out as in the case with some of feral's ports.Gearbox only ordered the Linux port because the Steam Machines hype back then, once the last DLC was release steam machines were already failed so Gearbox didn't want to spend money porting the last one.
Quoting: audiopathikThat's probably one of those cases they don't think of until someone brings it to their notice.That's what I'm thinking too
Quoting: ArdjeMaybe that's also the issue with Dying Light. Steam machines always had an nvidia card. So maybe it was an nvidia vs AMD opengl "compatibility" issue. (Made for nvidia)Back then AMD was in a sorrow state with their drivers on linux so Nvidia was prety much the only option. Personally I'm glad AMD decided to open source their drivers so Mesa developers can do their magic.
Last edited by BielFPs on 18 February 2022 at 2:24 pm UTC
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Quoting: slaapliedjeI always buy nVidia GPUs, but the Feral ports have ran fine for me.
Actually, the one time that I have tried the native port of Tomb Raider (2013) on an NVIDIA card (GTX 1650), it seemed to run fine there for me also (tested near the middle of 2020). I generally would expect the Vulkan based ports to run fine on NVIDIA. I've seen a number of claims about Feral ported games, especially old OpenGL ones, not running correctly on NVIDIA cards, though.
Last edited by CFWhitman on 18 February 2022 at 2:59 pm UTC
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Quoting: CFWhitmanActually, the one time that I have tried the native port of Tomb Raider (2013) on an NVIDIA card (GTX 1650), it seemed to run fine there for me also (tested near the middle of 2020). I generally would expect the Vulkan based ports to run fine on NVIDIA. I've seen a number of claims about Feral ported games, especially old OpenGL ones, not running correctly on NVIDIA cards, though.
Didn't meet a problem with any Feral port I played, always native, always on Nvidia.
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Feral's stuff should run fine on Nvidia. Thats the only card they've always supported, IIRC. Older ports didn't always release with "AMD support" , do to the driver situation, as mentioned by someone above.
While I'm personally still pretty skeptical about the Deck, both in commercial success terms and Valve's long term support, I am genuinely excited that this endeavor seems to be a bit of a pusg to improve Linux gaming on the Steam Ecosystem, which benefits all of us, regardless of the Deck's success.
While I'm personally still pretty skeptical about the Deck, both in commercial success terms and Valve's long term support, I am genuinely excited that this endeavor seems to be a bit of a pusg to improve Linux gaming on the Steam Ecosystem, which benefits all of us, regardless of the Deck's success.
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Quoting: headless_cyborgI'm curious about Rise/Shadow of the TR because their Feral native ports are IMO perfect so they should be the way to go.
They're good ports but not perfect. Shadow of the Tomb Raider is still receiving updates that Feral hasn't added. They could go back and update all their games, but it's probably not profitable at this point.
Wine/Proton is an open source solution, while Feral's wrapper was not. Dare I say this is a better solution?
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slaapliedje Feb 18, 2022
Quoting: denyasisFeral's stuff should run fine on Nvidia. Thats the only card they've always supported, IIRC. Older ports didn't always release with "AMD support" , do to the driver situation, as mentioned by someone above.So the nice thing about a static hardware platform like Steam is they won't need to be chasing constant kernel / mesa updates to get all the features of the GPU enabled. As long as the current kernel / Mesa versions support everything in SteamOS 3.0, then it should be shiny.
While I'm personally still pretty skeptical about the Deck, both in commercial success terms and Valve's long term support, I am genuinely excited that this endeavor seems to be a bit of a pusg to improve Linux gaming on the Steam Ecosystem, which benefits all of us, regardless of the Deck's success.
The problem, in my mind, is usually when a new AMD card comes out, and then you have to use kernels outside what your distribution normally supports (hence can cause random issues that are more difficult to poke around) and bleeding edge mesa libraries. This is the reason I use nvidia. Get a new card, update the nvidia driver (or wait for the distro to update their packages) and boom, you have support.
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slaapliedje Feb 18, 2022
Quoting: BielFPsDying Light port was made using OpenGL, so even the extra hurdle of converting DX -> Vulkan through Proton still performs better. Unfortunately Vulkan wasn't a option back then.Using OpenGL doesn't instantly make something perform worse. nVidia has always had fantastic OpenGL support. Didn't Dying Light get a Vulkan patch at some point? (Too many games did, but they supported that game very well, so I was thinking it had).
Found this; https://github.com/MakaVeliYo/DLVK so maybe not a native thing.
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Quoting: slaapliedjeQuoting: denyasisFeral's stuff should run fine on Nvidia. Thats the only card they've always supported, IIRC. Older ports didn't always release with "AMD support" , do to the driver situation, as mentioned by someone above.
While I'm personally still pretty skeptical about the Deck, both in commercial success terms and Valve's long term support, I am genuinely excited that this endeavor seems to be a bit of a pusg to improve Linux gaming on the Steam Ecosystem, which benefits all of us, regardless of the Deck's success.
So the nice thing about a static hardware platform like Steam is they won't need to be chasing constant kernel / mesa updates to get all the features of the GPU enabled. As long as the current kernel / Mesa versions support everything in SteamOS 3.0, then it should be shiny.
The problem, in my mind, is usually when a new AMD card comes out, and then you have to use kernels outside what your distribution normally supports (hence can cause random issues that are more difficult to poke around) and bleeding edge mesa libraries. This is the reason I use nvidia. Get a new card, update the nvidia driver (or wait for the distro to update their packages) and boom, you have support.
That's a very good point. Also historically, the same reason I've used Nvidia in my Linux build as well.
I was actually meaning something different in my mind when I said support. I was not clear with that, my apologies.
I was thinking more along the lines of commercial/institutional support (I hope that's the right word), as opposed to more kernel/driver support.
Basically how quickly will they discontinue the product/stop supporting it, fixing issues specific to it, etc.
Sorry for being confiusing
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Quoting: melkemindQuoting: headless_cyborgI'm curious about Rise/Shadow of the TR because their Feral native ports are IMO perfect so they should be the way to go.
They're good ports but not perfect. Shadow of the Tomb Raider is still receiving updates that Feral hasn't added. They could go back and update all their games, but it's probably not profitable at this point.
Wine/Proton is an open source solution, while Feral's wrapper was not. Dare I say this is a better solution?
Dare whatever you feel like.
But Wine/Proton is an open source solution... using a proprietary API to run closed source .EXE and .DLL files on Linux.
Which does not sound too great in my ears.
IMHO, it's a "better than mostly nothing", but not a "Wow, FLOSS!"
Last edited by Eike on 18 February 2022 at 5:56 pm UTC
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Quoting: melkemindRegardless of the open-source vs proprietary argument, certain game ports will run better compared with Proton. And in this case, the ports of both ROTTR and SOTTR run better than the Proton counterparts.Quoting: headless_cyborgI'm curious about Rise/Shadow of the TR because their Feral native ports are IMO perfect so they should be the way to go.
They're good ports but not perfect. Shadow of the Tomb Raider is still receiving updates that Feral hasn't added. They could go back and update all their games, but it's probably not profitable at this point.
Wine/Proton is an open source solution, while Feral's wrapper was not. Dare I say this is a better solution?
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Quoting: EikeGiven that the context is "Best way to play commercial closed source games", I don't think noting that the open source way to do it . . . plays commercial closed source games . . . is a serious criticism.Quoting: melkemindQuoting: headless_cyborgI'm curious about Rise/Shadow of the TR because their Feral native ports are IMO perfect so they should be the way to go.
They're good ports but not perfect. Shadow of the Tomb Raider is still receiving updates that Feral hasn't added. They could go back and update all their games, but it's probably not profitable at this point.
Wine/Proton is an open source solution, while Feral's wrapper was not. Dare I say this is a better solution?
Dare whatever you feel like.
But Wine/Proton is an open source solution... using a proprietary API to run closed source .EXE and .DLL files on Linux.
Which does not sound too great in my ears.
IMHO, it's a "better than mostly nothing", but not a "Wow, FLOSS!"
3 Likes, Who?
Quoting: slaapliedjeUsing OpenGL doesn't instantly make something perform worse. nVidia has always had fantastic OpenGL support.OpenGL doesn't work well with multithreading, which was one of the reasons DirectX dominated the market. It's a limitation of OpenGL itself. Also @Frawo already quoted you with benchmarks here so I won't extend myself on the topic.
Quoting: slaapliedjeFound this; https://github.com/MakaVeliYo/DLVK so maybe not a native thing.No ideia what this project does, but seems to rely on DXVK anyway
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Quoting: FrawoQuoting: slaapliedjeHuh, Dying Light ran awesome natively for me. Granted I don't know if running under Proton makes it run better, as I had no reason to test it.It definitely does run better in Proton, see Liams and Xpanders videos on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11dZ0iuzH-M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKdT3RuL9jQ
Even if the game runs "good enough" with the native version, I think they still will prefer Proton as it seems to be more efficient and should draw less power from the battery.
It could also be because of the controller support. I don't know about Dying Light, but controller support in the native version of Trine is pretty much broken, while in Proton it works as expected.
IIRC liam has a 2080ti in the first vid ?
Here is a rx5700 non xt running dying light on a AMD R3 3300 CPU compared to windows .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j7LXbD0IN8
As you can see on AMD windows is only slightly better and this was 2 years ago, Mesa has improved a great deal since then!
If that is Liams rig in the first vid it is looking a bit pants compared to a lowly 5700 GPU. How much was a 2080ti, 1200ish?
Last edited by pete910 on 18 February 2022 at 10:24 pm UTC
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Whoa...GoL got mentioned as a source and linked in PC Gamer article. Maybe it happened before but it's the first time I noticed it. Will probably drive some traffic here. Way to go!
Here is the PCG article: https://www.pcgamer.com/valve-is-testing-native-linux-ports-for-the-steam-deck-in-addition-to-proton/
Here is the PCG article: https://www.pcgamer.com/valve-is-testing-native-linux-ports-for-the-steam-deck-in-addition-to-proton/
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slaapliedje Feb 19, 2022
Quoting: BielFPsQuoting: slaapliedjeUsing OpenGL doesn't instantly make something perform worse. nVidia has always had fantastic OpenGL support.OpenGL doesn't work well with multithreading, which was one of the reasons DirectX dominated the market. It's a limitation of OpenGL itself. Also @Frawo already quoted you with benchmarks here so I won't extend myself on the topic.
Quoting: slaapliedjeFound this; https://github.com/MakaVeliYo/DLVK so maybe not a native thing.No ideia what this project does, but seems to rely on DXVK anyway
But literally some engines work better single threaded. Most of the id software games for sure. Granted they also mostly have used OpenGL historically instead of DirectX. So again, assuming automatically that OpenGL performs worse for every single use case is an incorrect one. Just as Vulkan is not always a better performance than DirectX (I can't recall which, but I'm sure there was a case where OpenGL pipeline was faster than some of the earlier versions of games that had both Vulkan and OpenGL support as well.
That project appears to be a wrapper for DirectX to Vulkan for Dying Light.... so makes sense why it would use DXVK... not sure how that works with the Linux Native version though...
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slaapliedje Feb 19, 2022
Quoting: FrawoWeird, my brother and I played through the entirety of Trine 1-2 (I want to say 3 as well) on Linux using Gamepads... so it worked at some point.Quoting: slaapliedjeHuh, Dying Light ran awesome natively for me. Granted I don't know if running under Proton makes it run better, as I had no reason to test it.It definitely does run better in Proton, see Liams and Xpanders videos on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11dZ0iuzH-M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKdT3RuL9jQ
Even if the game runs "good enough" with the native version, I think they still will prefer Proton as it seems to be more efficient and should draw less power from the battery.
It could also be because of the controller support. I don't know about Dying Light, but controller support in the native version of Trine is pretty much broken, while in Proton it works as expected.
Not sure why running through Proton would improve battery... Now while on the Deck, I'm sure every little bit of performance to squeeze out of a game is important, I played through the entire game of Dying Light on my desktop system, and there was never any time where I felt I needed more performance... then again that was with an RTX2080.
But yeah we're talking about one single game. There is never a 100% 'this is always faster' measurement that we have. Some are faster with Proton, some are faster as native, and some are faster with OpenGL vs Vulkan. Just all depends on the engine / game.
Controller support I've found is... interesting. Like some games absolutely need to be in BPM for the gamepad to work, others will stop or have weird issues in BPM, but work fine outside of it. Steam Controller mostly needs BPM to work right, etc. Then you have games like Dead Cells, where controller support has worked then not over the time of it's release (native, I don't know about via Proton).
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Quoting: pete910Quoting: FrawoQuoting: slaapliedjeHuh, Dying Light ran awesome natively for me. Granted I don't know if running under Proton makes it run better, as I had no reason to test it.It definitely does run better in Proton, see Liams and Xpanders videos on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11dZ0iuzH-M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKdT3RuL9jQ
Even if the game runs "good enough" with the native version, I think they still will prefer Proton as it seems to be more efficient and should draw less power from the battery.
It could also be because of the controller support. I don't know about Dying Light, but controller support in the native version of Trine is pretty much broken, while in Proton it works as expected.
IIRC liam has a 2080ti in the first vid ?
Here is a rx5700 non xt running dying light on a AMD R3 3300 CPU compared to windows .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j7LXbD0IN8
As you can see on AMD windows is only slightly better and this was 2 years ago, Mesa has improved a great deal since then!
If that is Liams rig in the first vid it is looking a bit pants compared to a lowly 5700 GPU. How much was a 2080ti, 1200ish?
Coincidentally, I tried Dying Light for the first time tonight. Native. Didn't work, got screen distortion and the splash screen videos would only do audio (codec issue?). Switched to proton and it worked just fine.
I'm sure the solution to make native run was probably something simple that I could research. Or I could spend the 15 min and let it redownload for proton...
I can't speak for all of us, but sometimes I just want to play instead of tinkering.
Last edited by denyasis on 19 February 2022 at 6:17 am UTC
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Quoting: denyasisQuoting: pete910Quoting: FrawoQuoting: slaapliedjeHuh, Dying Light ran awesome natively for me. Granted I don't know if running under Proton makes it run better, as I had no reason to test it.It definitely does run better in Proton, see Liams and Xpanders videos on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11dZ0iuzH-M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKdT3RuL9jQ
Even if the game runs "good enough" with the native version, I think they still will prefer Proton as it seems to be more efficient and should draw less power from the battery.
It could also be because of the controller support. I don't know about Dying Light, but controller support in the native version of Trine is pretty much broken, while in Proton it works as expected.
IIRC liam has a 2080ti in the first vid ?
Here is a rx5700 non xt running dying light on a AMD R3 3300 CPU compared to windows .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j7LXbD0IN8
As you can see on AMD windows is only slightly better and this was 2 years ago, Mesa has improved a great deal since then!
If that is Liams rig in the first vid it is looking a bit pants compared to a lowly 5700 GPU. How much was a 2080ti, 1200ish?
Coincidentally, I tried Dying Light for the first time tonight. Native. Didn't work, got screen distortion and the splash screen videos would only do audio (codec issue?). Switched to proton and it worked just fine.
I'm sure the solution to make native run was probably something simple that I could research. Or I could spend the 15 min and let it redownload for proton...
I can't speak for all of us, but sometimes I just want to play instead of tinkering.
Whilst most of us just want to game, some things on a particulars computer can mess up at times which is annoying for the individual.
It may well have been a simple fix unfortunately you wont know.
It may have been a missing lib from a package of your distro of choice for example, Easily rectified via a bug report thus helping the rest of users on that distro. This is how Linux works, No?
Not saying that is the issue it's just an example.
Yet on the other hand I bet you've hunted for fixes on other games in the past that had issues in wine, Witcher 3 for example ?
If you did, Why not install windows and just game rather than tinker ?
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