GOG suspends all sales in Russia and Belarus

Quoting: slapinI understand people behind sanctions but things do not work this way here. People will just consolidate and finally China will benefit from everything. That is because everyone here is in special kind of information bubble in which Putin is right and nation hero. So to avoid same thing happenning again there should be something which makes people see what is really going on. Thinking people already protesting but that is in vain because they have zero support.

If most of the world stopping trade with Russia and providing support to Ukraine, companies pulling out of the country, Putin preventing Russians from leaving the country, etc. doesn’t make them realize that something is wrong with their country, I don’t know what will. All the sanctions play into that. We are pushing the Russian population on the brink so that they take things into their own hands, because a direct military intervention by other countries could trigger a nuclear war that would be way more catastrophic than anything Putin could do to Ukraine, if you look at the bigger picture.

Things are absolutely going to suck for the individual Russian, and we well know that they are not to blame for this, but this is something that they have to fix. We’re buying them time, but we can’t do much more. I certainly hope that the world will be there to help them rebuild their economy and democracy when the conflict has ended. They are victims too, though of a different kind.

I find it sad that most countries and institutions who tries to sanction Putin are simply sanctionning Russian people. Their President despite this awkward "special operation" still has support from the majority. Isolating citizens for isolating their chief, not only will not work, but can be counter productive for the general opinion in Russia.

I know polish authorities has reason to be scared, but at least GOG could give a way to russian to still be connected in a good way to the outside world.

This is a nice gesture from GOG, but I doubt it will have much of an impact as most of their games are single player, so many Russians who want them will turn to piracy and still be able to play.

More impactful would be if the publishers of all the popular online multiplayer games & MMOs (WoW, CoD, Valorant, Fortnite, Minecraft etc) withdrew service from customers in Russia.

I understand this would upset ordinary Russians, but that is the point. Putin's illegal war on Ukraine is killing thousands of innocents. Pressure must be applied via every available avenue to wake up the Russian people to resist.

Far worse is coming in the next few months as the Russian economy collapses if they don't overthow Putin _now_ (mass unemployment, food shortages, much increased violent repression of any dissent).

Quoting: SamsaiPutin and Lukashenko are solely to blame for the suffering their actions have caused on their citizens. So, if the citizens are unhappy, they should know well who to send their complaints.

This is the same logic used to justify terror bombing—or "strategic bombing" when you do it to other countries:

QuoteThe aim of the Combined Bomber Offensive ... should be unambiguously stated [as] the destruction of German cities, the killing of German workers, and the disruption of civilised life throughout Germany ... the destruction of houses, public utilities, transport and lives, the creation of a refugee problem on an unprecedented scale, and the breakdown of morale both at home and at the battle fronts by fear of extended and intensified bombing, are accepted and intended aims of our bombing policy. They are not by-products of attempts to hit factories.

...

But they are strategically justified in so far as they tend to shorten the war and preserve the lives of Allied soldiers. To my mind we have absolutely no right to give them up unless it is certain that they will not have this effect. I do not personally regard the whole of the remaining cities of Germany as worth the bones of one British Grenadier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Arthur_Harris,_1st_Baronet#Second_World_War

Sir Arthur Harris later commented that the bombing did not have the desired effect because Nazi Germany was too well run a police state; they were already being terrorized by their current government, and they still didn't feel they could act against it. I can't find a source for it now, but from memory he still believes the bombing was justified, if only to prove that it didn't work.

Here's a more recent article explaining why strategic bombing often has the opposite effect:

QuoteRather than breaking popular morale in London, Berlin, Tokyo or Hanoi, it usually strengthened it. Confronted by a common deadly threat, civilians rally around the only leaders who can do anything to protect them, even if those leaders are widely disliked.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/why-strategic-bombing-doesnt-seem-to-work/article19928220/

Yes, these are video games, not civilian lives, but it's punishing solely civilians all the same for the actions of their government—civilians, perhaps, who are already being punished by their government. I'm sure Putin will be hit hard by not being able to play DRM-free games anymore. If this strategy actually works in Russia, it certainly wouldn't work in North Korea, which is far too well-run to allow this to happen.

The way I see it, the reason strategic bombing didn't work in Germany and Japan in the '40s is very simple: they didn't care about their citizens, and the citizens didn't feel they could overthrow the government, or perhaps even that it was the right choice. Even as cities continued to be fire bombed, there was no coup against the existing government. In fact, when the emperor wished to broker peace with the US using Nagasaki as an excuse, there was an ill-fated coup attempt to stop the emperor and his sympathizers from doing so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%ABj%C5%8D_incident

As a natural consequence of conflict, lives will be affected—especially the innocent ones. But going out of your way to target civilians instead of Putin and the government seems counter-productive from my perspective.

Of course, Russian citizens will simply torrent these games anyway.


Last edited by pleasereadthemanual on 3 March 2022 at 11:26 pm UTC

Quoting: JahimselfIsolating citizens for isolating their chief, not only will not work, but can be counter productive for the general opinion in Russia.

This is exactly how it is happening now.

Quoting: bonapartePressure must be applied via every available avenue to wake up the Russian people to resist.

You are the smartest person, as I see, since you are calling people to civil war and extremism..

Quoting: bonaparteFar worse is coming in the next few months as the Russian economy collapses if they don't overthow Putin _now_ (mass unemployment, food shortages, much increased violent repression of any dissent).

I'll tell you a terrible secret (just don't tell anyone) -

Spoiler, click me

when the government is overthrown, the economy will fall into dust even more.

Quoting: Salvatos

Quoting: slapinI understand people behind sanctions but things do not work this way here. People will just consolidate and finally China will benefit from everything. That is because everyone here is in special kind of information bubble in which Putin is right and nation hero. So to avoid same thing happenning again there should be something which makes people see what is really going on. Thinking people already protesting but that is in vain because they have zero support.

If most of the world stopping trade with Russia and providing support to Ukraine, companies pulling out of the country, Putin preventing Russians from leaving the country, etc. doesn’t make them realize that something is wrong with their country, I don’t know what will. All the sanctions play into that. We are pushing the Russian population on the brink so that they take things into their own hands, because a direct military intervention by other countries could trigger a nuclear war that would be way more catastrophic than anything Putin could do to Ukraine, if you look at the bigger picture.

Things are absolutely going to suck for the individual Russian, and we well know that they are not to blame for this, but this is something that they have to fix. We’re buying them time, but we can’t do much more. I certainly hope that the world will be there to help them rebuild their economy and democracy when the conflict has ended. They are victims too, though of a different kind.

People won't understand anything and will feel oppressed both by government and West and will join government, which will lead to same thing happening again in future. Shunning nations never worked and never provided any good result.

Quoting: johndoeNo, I think this is the right thing to do.
Stop everything (beside internet access) with russia as possible. All russian people should start to demonstrate against Putin and force him to resign.

I will just say: don't feed a hate for Russian people. Not everyone of them are guilty of what Putin is doing, and saying "do something" is easy to be say than to be done in the current Russian context.

IMO, the only valid strategy against Putin and anyone that supports their invasion is to keep adding macro economic sanctions. Giving weapons and sending fighters to the Ukrainian theater of war is probably a bad idea.

Quoting: x_wing

Quoting: johndoeNo, I think this is the right thing to do.
Stop everything (beside internet access) with russia as possible. All russian people should start to demonstrate against Putin and force him to resign.

I will just say: don't feed a hate for Russian people. Not everyone of them are guilty of what Putin is doing, and saying "do something" is easy to be say than to be done in the current Russian context.

IMO, the only valid strategy against Putin and anyone that supports their invasion is to keep adding macro economic sanctions. Giving weapons and sending fighters to the Ukrainian theater of war is probably a bad idea.

I disagree, helping Ukraine stand now will save both Ukraine and Russia. Losing Ukraine will end up as long standing
problem for both Europe and world. Also China will benefit from everything.

Quoting: slapinI disagree, helping Ukraine stand now will save both Ukraine and Russia. Losing Ukraine will end up as long standing
problem for both Europe and world. Also China will benefit from everything.

It all depends on what you refer as "helping". Helping to evacuate is one thing, giving more guns and forcing people to fight a war they don't want to is another.


Last edited by x_wing on 4 March 2022 at 1:58 am UTC

As far as I know, sanctions are supposedly done to punish a regime. It's an effective way to mounting pressure to a regime or warlord without having to do a full blown war. Unfortunately, since there are people living under the rules of said regime, obviously they will be affected by the sanctions as well.

With that said, while I feel sorry for Russians people, I agree with some of the sanctions and bans:

• Banning Russia from payment system can be used to prevent oligarch to run or funnel their money. Same with freezing their assets.
• Banning some exports to Russia for vital products like semiconductors, cement, iron etc is understandable as well since those can be used by Russia to enforce their military.
• Blocking some Russian account from social media, while a bit icky for me, is understandable as well to prevents propaganda from Russia government.

However banning people from purchasing game is not only useless but also evil. Who does GOG think purchasing their games? Putin? The oligarch? The military?

I understand GOG as Polish company wants to contribute to Ukrainian people, but banning purchase is not a way to go. This is why while I don't support pirating apps, I still believe it needed in this world.

Quoting: SamsaiSo, if the citizens are unhappy, they should know well who to send their complaints.

Aren't there already a lot of demonstration in Russia? According to Reuters there are already 5,500 peoples detained since the start of invasion.