GOG suspends all sales in Russia and Belarus

I understand people behind sanctions but things do not work this way here. People will just consolidate and finally China will benefit from everything. That is because everyone here is in special kind of information bubble in which Putin is right and nation hero. So to avoid same thing happenning again there should be something which makes people see what is really going on. Thinking people already protesting but that is in vain because they have zero support.

If most of the world stopping trade with Russia and providing support to Ukraine, companies pulling out of the country, Putin preventing Russians from leaving the country, etc. doesn’t make them realize that something is wrong with their country, I don’t know what will. All the sanctions play into that. We are pushing the Russian population on the brink so that they take things into their own hands, because a direct military intervention by other countries could trigger a nuclear war that would be way more catastrophic than anything Putin could do to Ukraine, if you look at the bigger picture.

Things are absolutely going to suck for the individual Russian, and we well know that they are not to blame for this, but this is something that they have to fix. We’re buying them time, but we can’t do much more. I certainly hope that the world will be there to help them rebuild their economy and democracy when the conflict has ended. They are victims too, though of a different kind.

I find it sad that most countries and institutions who tries to sanction Putin are simply sanctionning Russian people. Their President despite this awkward "special operation" still has support from the majority. Isolating citizens for isolating their chief, not only will not work, but can be counter productive for the general opinion in Russia.

I know polish authorities has reason to be scared, but at least GOG could give a way to russian to still be connected in a good way to the outside world.

This is a nice gesture from GOG, but I doubt it will have much of an impact as most of their games are single player, so many Russians who want them will turn to piracy and still be able to play.

More impactful would be if the publishers of all the popular online multiplayer games & MMOs (WoW, CoD, Valorant, Fortnite, Minecraft etc) withdrew service from customers in Russia.

I understand this would upset ordinary Russians, but that is the point. Putin's illegal war on Ukraine is killing thousands of innocents. Pressure must be applied via every available avenue to wake up the Russian people to resist.

Far worse is coming in the next few months as the Russian economy collapses if they don't overthow Putin _now_ (mass unemployment, food shortages, much increased violent repression of any dissent).

Putin and Lukashenko are solely to blame for the suffering their actions have caused on their citizens. So, if the citizens are unhappy, they should know well who to send their complaints.

This is the same logic used to justify terror bombing—or "strategic bombing" when you do it to other countries:

The aim of the Combined Bomber Offensive ... should be unambiguously stated [as] the destruction of German cities, the killing of German workers, and the disruption of civilised life throughout Germany ... the destruction of houses, public utilities, transport and lives, the creation of a refugee problem on an unprecedented scale, and the breakdown of morale both at home and at the battle fronts by fear of extended and intensified bombing, are accepted and intended aims of our bombing policy. They are not by-products of attempts to hit factories.

...

But they are strategically justified in so far as they tend to shorten the war and preserve the lives of Allied soldiers. To my mind we have absolutely no right to give them up unless it is certain that they will not have this effect. I do not personally regard the whole of the remaining cities of Germany as worth the bones of one British Grenadier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Arthur_Harris,_1st_Baronet#Second_World_War

Sir Arthur Harris later commented that the bombing did not have the desired effect because Nazi Germany was too well run a police state; they were already being terrorized by their current government, and they still didn't feel they could act against it. I can't find a source for it now, but from memory he still believes the bombing was justified, if only to prove that it didn't work.

Here's a more recent article explaining why strategic bombing often has the opposite effect:

Rather than breaking popular morale in London, Berlin, Tokyo or Hanoi, it usually strengthened it. Confronted by a common deadly threat, civilians rally around the only leaders who can do anything to protect them, even if those leaders are widely disliked.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/why-strategic-bombing-doesnt-seem-to-work/article19928220/

Yes, these are video games, not civilian lives, but it's punishing solely civilians all the same for the actions of their government—civilians, perhaps, who are already being punished by their government. I'm sure Putin will be hit hard by not being able to play DRM-free games anymore. If this strategy actually works in Russia, it certainly wouldn't work in North Korea, which is far too well-run to allow this to happen.

The way I see it, the reason strategic bombing didn't work in Germany and Japan in the '40s is very simple: they didn't care about their citizens, and the citizens didn't feel they could overthrow the government, or perhaps even that it was the right choice. Even as cities continued to be fire bombed, there was no coup against the existing government. In fact, when the emperor wished to broker peace with the US using Nagasaki as an excuse, there was an ill-fated coup attempt to stop the emperor and his sympathizers from doing so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%ABj%C5%8D_incident

As a natural consequence of conflict, lives will be affected—especially the innocent ones. But going out of your way to target civilians instead of Putin and the government seems counter-productive from my perspective.

Of course, Russian citizens will simply torrent these games anyway.


Last edited by pleasereadthemanual on 3 March 2022 at 11:26 pm UTC

Isolating citizens for isolating their chief, not only will not work, but can be counter productive for the general opinion in Russia.

This is exactly how it is happening now.

Pressure must be applied via every available avenue to wake up the Russian people to resist.

You are the smartest person, as I see, since you are calling people to civil war and extremism..

Far worse is coming in the next few months as the Russian economy collapses if they don't overthow Putin _now_ (mass unemployment, food shortages, much increased violent repression of any dissent).

I'll tell you a terrible secret (just don't tell anyone) -

Spoiler, click me

when the government is overthrown, the economy will fall into dust even more.

I understand people behind sanctions but things do not work this way here. People will just consolidate and finally China will benefit from everything. That is because everyone here is in special kind of information bubble in which Putin is right and nation hero. So to avoid same thing happenning again there should be something which makes people see what is really going on. Thinking people already protesting but that is in vain because they have zero support.

If most of the world stopping trade with Russia and providing support to Ukraine, companies pulling out of the country, Putin preventing Russians from leaving the country, etc. doesn’t make them realize that something is wrong with their country, I don’t know what will. All the sanctions play into that. We are pushing the Russian population on the brink so that they take things into their own hands, because a direct military intervention by other countries could trigger a nuclear war that would be way more catastrophic than anything Putin could do to Ukraine, if you look at the bigger picture.

Things are absolutely going to suck for the individual Russian, and we well know that they are not to blame for this, but this is something that they have to fix. We’re buying them time, but we can’t do much more. I certainly hope that the world will be there to help them rebuild their economy and democracy when the conflict has ended. They are victims too, though of a different kind.

People won't understand anything and will feel oppressed both by government and West and will join government, which will lead to same thing happening again in future. Shunning nations never worked and never provided any good result.

No, I think this is the right thing to do.
Stop everything (beside internet access) with russia as possible. All russian people should start to demonstrate against Putin and force him to resign.

I will just say: don't feed a hate for Russian people. Not everyone of them are guilty of what Putin is doing, and saying "do something" is easy to be say than to be done in the current Russian context.

IMO, the only valid strategy against Putin and anyone that supports their invasion is to keep adding macro economic sanctions. Giving weapons and sending fighters to the Ukrainian theater of war is probably a bad idea.

No, I think this is the right thing to do.
Stop everything (beside internet access) with russia as possible. All russian people should start to demonstrate against Putin and force him to resign.

I will just say: don't feed a hate for Russian people. Not everyone of them are guilty of what Putin is doing, and saying "do something" is easy to be say than to be done in the current Russian context.

IMO, the only valid strategy against Putin and anyone that supports their invasion is to keep adding macro economic sanctions. Giving weapons and sending fighters to the Ukrainian theater of war is probably a bad idea.

I disagree, helping Ukraine stand now will save both Ukraine and Russia. Losing Ukraine will end up as long standing
problem for both Europe and world. Also China will benefit from everything.

I disagree, helping Ukraine stand now will save both Ukraine and Russia. Losing Ukraine will end up as long standing
problem for both Europe and world. Also China will benefit from everything.

It all depends on what you refer as "helping". Helping to evacuate is one thing, giving more guns and forcing people to fight a war they don't want to is another.


Last edited by x_wing on 4 March 2022 at 1:58 am UTC

As far as I know, sanctions are supposedly done to punish a regime. It's an effective way to mounting pressure to a regime or warlord without having to do a full blown war. Unfortunately, since there are people living under the rules of said regime, obviously they will be affected by the sanctions as well.

With that said, while I feel sorry for Russians people, I agree with some of the sanctions and bans:

• Banning Russia from payment system can be used to prevent oligarch to run or funnel their money. Same with freezing their assets.
• Banning some exports to Russia for vital products like semiconductors, cement, iron etc is understandable as well since those can be used by Russia to enforce their military.
• Blocking some Russian account from social media, while a bit icky for me, is understandable as well to prevents propaganda from Russia government.

However banning people from purchasing game is not only useless but also evil. Who does GOG think purchasing their games? Putin? The oligarch? The military?

I understand GOG as Polish company wants to contribute to Ukrainian people, but banning purchase is not a way to go. This is why while I don't support pirating apps, I still believe it needed in this world.

So, if the citizens are unhappy, they should know well who to send their complaints.

Aren't there already a lot of demonstration in Russia? According to Reuters there are already 5,500 peoples detained since the start of invasion.

They should also block sells for NATO/OTAN members who participated in war intervention in Iraq,Yemen,Afghanistan,Libya,Syria...
it's all "good" PR, war profiteering.

a life is equal to a another life, war is hell they are no "good guys" in this, I'm tired of the total hypocrisy of the "West".

a life is equal to a another life, war is hell they are no "good guys" in this, I'm tired of the total hypocrisy of the "West".

The fact that other countries are hypocrite doesn't remove the blame on who is the aggressor here. I mean, I'm almost sure that the "East" condemned "West" in all the other "interventions" you mentioned (not to mention that both Syria and Afghanistan had "interventions" from both sides). "East" and "West" work the same way, maybe is time that both remove their masks, look directly to the eyes and create rules in order to avoid all this war shit show.

look directly to the eyes and create rules in order to avoid all this war shit show.

That will go against both ruling class interest, they don't care about human life only there owns interest anyone that challenge either hegemony is getting pardon my french ASSFUCKED by either sanctions, coup or "intervention".

Funny I have never seen them halt sales to the United States citizens any time their military kills innocent civilians. Weird how that works.

So, if the citizens are unhappy, they should know well who to send their complaints.

You have no idea how people work, do you?
They will only see that they suffer due to sanctions of the West. Because that's what they are being told - and most do not have the knowledge, desire or possibility to get "better" information in Russia/Belarus.
So they won't be hating on their government, they'll be hating on the West.

Sanctions ultimately only increase the support for their government.
It's still the right thing to do as it might be the only thing to bring regimes to their knees besides violence, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking we'll make any friends that way in affected regions.

Sanctions ultimately only increase the support for their government.
It's still the right thing to do as it might be the only thing to bring regimes to their knees besides violence, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking we'll make any friends that way in affected regions.

Bold of you to assume I want to make friends. Here's a hint: I don't.

In the best case scenario we sanction their economies to crap just enough that someone in Putin's inner circle puts a bullet into the madman's brain. If along the way we make some of ordinary people realize they are being the baddies by making their lives uncomfortable, then that's a win in my book. If we don't convince anyone but we make Putin paranoid that they might be convinced, then that's a win in my book.

In the worst case scenario the only thing we accomplish is accelerating the natural life cycle of a fascist regime. Which always, without a fail, ends in the death of the regime.

Addendum: there is also the benefit of companies learning to live without Russian and Belarussian money. We're seemingly finally finding a moral line beyond which even companies aren't willing to tolerate dealing with nation states.


Last edited by Samsai on 4 March 2022 at 8:34 am UTC

Yeah, I don’t agree with gog here. They should keep selling the games and donate all proceeds they make from those sales to Ukraine. And put up a big banner telling their Russian costumers they’re doing it, let them vote with their wallets.

the internet is the only way for russians the SEE/READ the truth instead of Putins propaganda.

Aaah, mentioning "the truth". ... as if we didn't know today that's a very relative concept.

I suppose you feel that you always are on the side of the truth, and others, with different opinions and feelings, are always on the side of propoganda?

War, war never changes. First victim of war, the empathy. First winners of war, a self-centred view of the world and the fact that the "others" gradually, but quickly, pass from 'another me' to 'stupid aliens'.

No political leaders are clean in this (his)story, and, if we have to rank the dirtiers, Putin is for sure at the top of this list. But so many why? (example: why NATO after the end of USSR continues to behave as if it was not ended? Why Ukraine could not remained a neutral country?).
The trouble for russian people is that Putin is basing its propaganda on true facts (even if minor to our western eyes: far-right ukranian militias that killed russian and this Dombass war that is running for now more than 8 years, with some ukrainian army exactions). Putin, ukrainian and western leaders are both ranking the importances of some more or less minor true facts to justify their own decisions.
Rational external people (European people for example), should send them back-to-back and support every path that favours de-escalation, for the sake of life, civilians. ...But also for the sake of some of these young russian conscripts that clearly don't want to do this war (and that can be our own children...they didn't choose to be soldiers). I prefer these russian conscripts in tanks that refuse to crush ukrainian that block their way or deliberately obey orders the more stupid way to make their tanks and squadrons impotent than these young europeans joining the ukrainian resistance with the will to truly fire and kill invaders. An invading army can't keep an invaded country, especially with such unmotivated police and soldiers. But go give reasons to these unmotivated russian conscripts to avenge a friend or a beloved, or to feel stuck between the need to save their lives and their will to not arm civilians, and we will be all fucked.

"West" is walking on a very narrow path, with massive consequence for European (and less for Americans...it is quite far from them). Russian people may aggregate even more around this politically-finished so little time ago (and rumour says with declining health, terminal-cancer) Putin, or revolt against him. I would not be the western leader that bets on one of these two possible options with insurance and determination, currently. Not on what should or will do russian people about Putin, and not betting if this KGB mad mind will or not send nuclear missiles when he will end cornered (by his economy or his people).
In addition, russian people are resilient people. Russia just signed free trade with china (some researchers on geopolitics even say that it would be the true cause of this war): they have food, gas and oil, they can trade with the world-factory that is china, without any dollar/swift and without any interference from the rest of the world, ... I won't even bet on the fact that they will care of commercial sanctions.

...so carrying on GOG decision? Same results: will it upset russian people against Putin or against GOG and western companies that fit and give reality to Putin's propaganda?

let me step in, i'm from Belarus. I understand the GOG's move but i must clarify the situation in Belarus. We protested against lukashenko in 2020-21 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_Belarusian_protests. Personally i was in a custody because of it. There were tortures and at least 15 people were killed during protests. We are UNDER OCCUPATION now by fascist regimes. People of Belarus do not support war! They hate and despise putler/lukashenko. We live like in GULAG now. And even now people try to protest. 800 were detained in one day at anti-war protests. Some even began a rail war by destroying rw infrastructure to break russian troops supply chain.

The only thing which would really work is helping Ukraine now, everything else is full of shit. Don't replace real action with activism, do something. Sanctions have delayed effect if at all, but Ukraine needs your help NOW.