Windows drivers roll out for Steam Deck but Valve won't support it

Least of our worries. Valve have plenty of $$$, what they want is future-proofing and Microsoft cannot give them that and would not if it could.

Friendly reminder that most of Valve's income is selling games for Windows users


Last edited by BielFPs on 10 March 2022 at 9:52 pm UTC

there is an advantage on windows, at least on general hardware:
windows can hot-swap drivers, linux cant AFAIK.

Actually, you can not only swap them on linux, but even keep them together and choose what to use runtime, at least with amd.


Last edited by kokoko3k on 10 March 2022 at 9:59 pm UTC

If valve doesn't provide a dual-boot friendly installer in a few weeks, someone from the community will. Goes without saying, I probably won't try windows, but I haven't invested in windows-only gaming.


Last edited by const on 10 March 2022 at 10:27 pm UTC

Least of our worries. Valve have plenty of $$$, what they want is future-proofing and Microsoft cannot give them that and would not if it could.

Friendly reminder that most of Valve's income is selling games for Windows users

Separate issue. Valve might (although I don't really think so) reorient the thing more towards Windows for the sake of all the Windows users in their customer base, if they get sufficiently restless. They will not do so because Microsoft gives them $$, which is what you were suggesting.

Least of our worries. Valve have plenty of $$$, what they want is future-proofing and Microsoft cannot give them that and would not if it could.

Friendly reminder that most of Valve's income is selling games for Windows users

Valve's income is selling PC games. With the Steam Deck able to play a very high number of Windows games now...

I am curious about the performance difference. But no matter the results, I will never ever install Windows.

Well a lot of games already run better on Linux, and given how vale should be able to optimize the OS specifically for the hardware and that windows will not be so optimized I would be surprised if windows is noticeably faster at anything.

there is an advantage on windows, at least on general hardware:
windows can hot-swap drivers, linux cant AFAIK.
that is quite usefull because you can use the best driver for each game or even make an driver specifically for an single game, and that do happen automatically without the user noticing.

i dont think that feature will apply to the deck, but it cant be under estimated.

nor can not having an translation layer.

You can *most definitely* hot swap drivers (i.e. kernel modules) on Linux... as long as the driver isn't busy serving a user. You might be referring to the graphics driver, which _seems_ like it can't be swapped, but that's because the GUI is using it. If you log out, you can hot swap the graphics driver too (but at that point you might as well take a 10s hit and restart).

That said, what you said doesn't make much sense. You can have per game optimizations inside the same driver, so you don't need to swap drivers. Even if you did, all that logic would be in the user-mode driver; that's the heavy part of the graphics driver which lives as a user-space library. The kernel driver is very thin. There is absolutely no problem swapping user-mode drivers on top of the same kernel-mode driver (if such a thing even made sense).

Separate issue. Valve might (although I don't really think so) reorient the thing more towards Windows for the sake of all the Windows users in their customer base, if they get sufficiently restless. They will not do so because Microsoft gives them $$, which is what you were suggesting.

Using $ on the equation doesn't always mean "I'll pay you to support my OS", this could be a scenario which Microsoft says "Hey Valve, we had some engineer to curate Windows on steam deck hardware, so we only a$k you to make an small effort on your client in order to users get a similar experience if they opt to install windows". In this scenario, Valve still makes more money by selling hardware and software to more potential costumers (without have to support / maintain this use case alone) and Microsoft keeps users bounded to their system. In this scenario would be a win/win situation for Valve and Microsoft in my opinion.

Of course, Microsoft could also do this without any of Valve's help, or even do the opposite and launch a "xbox deck" to compete with.

All am I'm saying is that personally I don't think this "Windows not supported" scenario will last for a long time.

I hope Microsoft doesn't a$k Valve to reconsider

I have altered the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further!

Installing Windows in 2022 on the Steamdeck is like installing Linux 10-15 years ago. Some parts work, some don't.

Also, exactly like installing Windows 10-15 years ago. Like 2 or 3 comments above you just said most people have no idea how difficult it can be to do a clean install of Windows especially with a retail disc and not an OEM disc. Especially 15-20 years ago!

Installing Windows in 2022 on the Steamdeck is like installing Linux 10-15 years ago. Some parts work, some don't.

Also, exactly like installing Windows 10-15 years ago. Like 2 or 3 comments above you just said most people have no idea how difficult it can be to do a clean install of Windows especially with a retail disc and not an OEM disc. Especially 15-20 years ago!

Also, exactly like installing windows right now. You install it, then half the hardware doesn't work until you download and install drivers (and wifi is one of them, so you need to boot to Linux to get the wifi drivers first :P).

It's only Linux that once you install it, everything just works.

Valve is providing an official way to install Windows as well as put SteamOS back. The dual-boot wizard seems to also be in the work. Hopefully Windows users will also get the new SteamOS interface on Windows as a Big Picture mode replacement. That's plenty of support.

any steam client can run the new interface its just a matter of tweak a few config files, people already figured out how.

Do you have a link how to do this?

Least of our worries. Valve have plenty of $$$, what they want is future-proofing and Microsoft cannot give them that and would not if it could.

Friendly reminder that most of Valve's income is selling games for Windows users

And Valve have been VERY VOCAL that they ARE NOT HAPPY with being dependent on Microsoft as a result. If they were happy with the situation, the Deck would've come with Windows. Microsoft has nothing to tempt them with, because they're already printing money, and as long as they're dependent on Windows they have the Damocles' sword of Microsoft cutting off their revenue model at a stroke hanging over their heads. They've been trying to move players away from Windows since they ported Steam to MacOS and Linux. And now that they finally, possibly, have a chance to do so? Yeah, Microsoft has zero leverage over them any more.

Separate issue. Valve might (although I don't really think so) reorient the thing more towards Windows for the sake of all the Windows users in their customer base, if they get sufficiently restless. They will not do so because Microsoft gives them $$, which is what you were suggesting.

Using $ on the equation doesn't always mean "I'll pay you to support my OS", this could be a scenario which Microsoft says "Hey Valve, we had some engineer to curate Windows on steam deck hardware, so we only a$k you to make an small effort on your client in order to users get a similar experience if they opt to install windows". In this scenario, Valve still makes more money by selling hardware and software to more potential costumers (without have to support / maintain this use case alone) and Microsoft keeps users bounded to their system. In this scenario would be a win/win situation for Valve and Microsoft in my opinion.

Of course, Microsoft could also do this without any of Valve's help, or even do the opposite and launch a "xbox deck" to compete with.

All am I'm saying is that personally I don't think this "Windows not supported" scenario will last for a long time.

Personally I think you are mistaken, for the reasons Philadelphus outlined. If they were thinking the way you think they are thinking, they wouldn't have done SteamOS in the first place, they'd have just released on Windows from the start. In fact, they probably wouldn't have done the Steam Deck at all. Two thirds of the point of the whole exercise is to create a big stack of de facto Linux users as a game target. Why would they be undermining their whole strategy for a couple more short term sales?


Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 11 March 2022 at 8:53 am UTC

https://youtu.be/lzjmPmfLB-o?t=2285

holy shit, that is exactly what i was talking about with an better explanation.
looks like they understood the concept better than i, so ignore my last comment and look at this explanation instead.


Last edited by elmapul on 11 March 2022 at 9:34 am UTC

And Valve have been VERY VOCAL that they ARE NOT HAPPY with being dependent on Microsoft as a result. If they were happy with the situation, the Deck would've come with Windows. Microsoft has nothing to tempt them with, because they're already printing money

Supporting another system is different from "being dependent" of it, Valve already reach this objective with SteamOS. My point is that Valve doesn't have any monetary gain by not having windows working on deck, which does not mean they will change SteamOS for windows (they won't)

and as long as they're dependent on Windows they have the Damocles' sword of Microsoft cutting off their revenue model at a stroke hanging over their heads. They've been trying to move players away from Windows since they ported Steam to MacOS and Linux. And now that they finally, possibly, have a chance to do so? Yeah, Microsoft has zero leverage over them any more.

Friendly reminder that most of Valve's income is selling games for Windows users

Again, supporting other SO =/= being dependent, drive people out of windows is not Valve's goal in anyway, this is a consequence of people who already wish to move away from it and now they have more reasons to.

Personally I think you are mistaken, for the reasons Philadelphus outlined. If they were thinking the way you think they are thinking, they wouldn't have done SteamOS in the first place, they'd have just released on Windows from the start.

Two reasons for that: Windows is not a free system, which obviously means they can't distribute that without paying Microsoft and for not being dependent from other company decisions (and they already achieved that unlike their competitors ).

I wish Valve could give a middle finger to Windows just like the next guy here, but I'm old enough to realize Valve as a company has not to gain from doing this because they profit from both of them and right now it's a fact that most of their income comes from Windows users.

Windows on SteamDeck looks like this:
https://youtu.be/greMmdW9Yr8

Installing Windows in 2022 on the Steamdeck is like installing Linux 10-15 years ago. Some parts work, some don't.

Also, exactly like installing Windows 10-15 years ago. Like 2 or 3 comments above you just said most people have no idea how difficult it can be to do a clean install of Windows especially with a retail disc and not an OEM disc. Especially 15-20 years ago!

Also, exactly like installing windows right now. You install it, then half the hardware doesn't work until you download and install drivers (and wifi is one of them, so you need to boot to Linux to get the wifi drivers first :P).

It's only Linux that once you install it, everything just works.

Not to mention that, last time I installed Windows 10 for a test for someone, it took more than an hour to finally get to the desktop. Linux install, on the same PC, took 10 minutes.
It's amazing how shitty Windows can be.
And oh my god, the annoying questions about privacy at the beginning... xD


Last edited by Cyril on 11 March 2022 at 11:56 am UTC

Do you have a link how to do this?

Here ya go:
https://www.geeks.lgbt/diy-steamos-3-0/
Do the last two steps (opt in to beta and pass
-gamepadui to steam)

Not to mention that, last time I installed Windows 10 for a test for someone, it took more than an hour to finally get to the desktop. Linux install, on the same PC, took 10 minutes.
It's amazing how shitty Windows can be.

... and you've got loads of productive software on Linux after this install.

And oh my god, the annoying questions about privacy at the beginning... xD

That's an easy one though ;) : Change every single option and you're fine.

Do you have a link how to do this?

Here ya go:
https://www.geeks.lgbt/diy-steamos-3-0/
Do the last two steps (opt in to beta and pass
-gamepadui to steam)

Thanks!

Though my Firefox doesn't want to load this as they don't support TLS 1.2. :-/