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If You Like... Left 4 Dead

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What’s this? An entirely new genre, you say? Well, arguably that’s exactly what Valve presented to the public in 2008 with the original Left 4 Dead, and its superlative sequel the following year. But was it really a new genre?

IYL will be a short series of articles delving into various genres and looking at the best examples in each. I’ll follow a standard layout. I’ll start with a bit of history about the most famous game representing the genre. Next, I’ll cover a game that’s very similar to the original, then (hopefully!) any games that have surpassed it since, and finally any games that do things in a unique way, but still tipping their hat to the original. Then it’s over to you to tell me how wrong I am, in the comments!

Well, that gets a little tricky, but I’m going to say yes. For example, the original Killing Floor, which has a similar basis, was originally a mod for Unreal Tournament 2004 and debuted in 2005. But true to the base game, Killing Floor didn’t feature a story, and the entire “mission” was a single area with random trader spawns after each “wave”. I’m not sure that formula justifies being called genre-defining.

Meanwhile, Left 4 Dead launched with so many unique features, it’s hard to keep track of it all! Player characters had… character. They had multiple situational voicelines, prompts and interactions during play that went beyond the usual “RELOADING” scream. They had back stories which, while not relevant to gameplay, gave the whole world a sense of realism.

A realism which was echoed by zombie animations which even today remain sensational. This was Havoc physics… but without the jank. In fact, it turns out that the Source’s physics engine that powers that animation, called VPhysics, is actually based on early Havoc builds, back before it was owned by Intel or Microsoft and was actually open-source. The good old days. Seeing the zombies lean into turns, stumbling out of fires, or tripping over objects is something you rarely see, even in modern games.

And that physics engine is used everywhere - you can break windows, blow up barriers, see chairs or TVs flying around from the power of your gunfire. The zombie “tank” has a melee attack that sends cars flying - an instant KO if one hits your character!

Then there’s the dynamic lighting and shadows, the scene setting and sound design, the idle animations, the themed zombie types (military, hospital, etc) and the complete lack of a loading screen from the start of a mission to the end and an AI “Director” that changes the difficulty depending on how well you do, encouraging replay. Combined, it delivered an atmosphere that inspired a believable sense of dread and panic.

And the multiplayer didn’t just stop at the survivors. No, Valve also let you play PvP, putting  you in the shoes of multiple types of “special” infected, from Hunters that leap huge distances, or Chokers who throw their tongues out from afar to reel in the player, to the slow moving but devastating bloater that will summon a horde of zombies to the player, even in death. This all makes for a fascinating blend of tense strategy, forced cooperation and genuine jump scares.

And as usual for these articles, I haven’t covered mods… but they’re there. Oh, they’re so, so there, all 120 thousand or so!

A direct clone - Back 4 Blood [Steam]

And then there was Left 4 Dead 3! At least, that’s the reputation Turtle Rock Studios were flattered with when the mainstream gaming media proclaimed them the “creators of Left 4 Dead” and hyped Back 4 Blood, an attempt at modernising the Left 4 Dead experience.

It didn’t quite work out that way, however, when it launched in October 2021. Turtle Rock Studios are still asking £49.99 for Back 4 Blood, despite its “mixed” review status on Steam. Throw in a touch of Denuvo DRM, a silver rating on ProtonDB (including a lack of EAC support that kills the multiplayer), janky AI, and a complete lack of mod support and frankly, it’s amazing that quite a few media outlets rated it as high as 8/10. User reviews on metacritic were harsher, scoring it 5.4 overall.

I won’t spend any more time on this one, except to quote this comment from “Neon357” from this daming Youtube video which compares the two games.

The best thing that Back for Blood accomplished was making people realize how good Left 4 Dead really was

Games that do it better - Deep Rock Galactic [Steam]

I nearly didn’t buy Deep Rock Galactic. As a man born in the 70’s, I grew up learning first hand what a hive of scum and villainy the internet actually is. It started with Doom, then Quake, Quake 2, Unreal Tournament and ultimately Call of Duty. It was probably CoD that finally killed any interest I had to play with “randos” (random people on the internet). And here was Deep Rock Galactic, a game that forces four randos together and the only hope of their survival is cooperation. That… just can’t happen these days, right?

Rock and Stone, brother! I can’t explain it. I really can’t. But when you land in a hosted session in this game and burst out of your delivery pod, you press V to shout “Rock and Stone” and wave your axe in greeting, and instantly all other players will do the same. It’s uncanny. Yet so wholesome and heart warming. You’re a team, after all.

There’s rarely any voice chat in DRG either. Cooperation is instead enabled and encouraged through the use of your laser pointer with which you can tag resources or enemies, calling them out for all the other players. That cooperation is absolutely necessary too, as most hosts will enforce a balanced team, ensuring one player of each class - driller, scout, engineer, and gunner. The driller can tunnel through the environment, the scout can grapple and light the area up, the engineer can place pancake-like platforms and turrets, and the gunner… does what you'd expect, but also features a nice line grapple that can help navigate the depths, and a short-lived shield to protect his brother dwarves when the fighting gets thick.

You need all four to be successful, and somehow, it works. There’s no light in the dank caverns on the planet Hoxxes, so your dwarf throws a series of regenerating flares which slowly fade over time. The scout is crucial here, as they have a massive light flare that lasts much longer and lights up a huge area, but the tension created by frequently needing more light is superb. It encourages you all to stick together, and play together.

DRG’s replayabilty is next level too, with a variety of mission types, an often-complex mission structure for each, and random events, all coupled with an organic, random map generation system which can only be described as evil incarnate. I’ve lost count of how often I’ve made my way to the bottom of a mission only to realise that I don’t have any good way to get back out! Follow that digger, who will often drill as close to “straight up” as they can manage, while desperately trying not to overheat their drill bits, letting the rest of the team fight off multiple hordes before the timer runs out.

Meta progression is also superb. The perk system allows for gameplay choices to be made (run faster, carry more, sense enemies, etc) and each class will advance in levels allowing for gear unlocks and upgrades. Cash can also be spent on customising your dwarves with new hairstyles, beards, side burns, hair colour, caps, armour and more.

Even the simple hub area is a chance to bond with your squad before setting out on another mission, with games to play, beer to drink (for mission-based perks) and music to “dance” to.

And there’s so much more I haven’t really covered. The end-game “deep dive” missions, the weapon customisation, the hilarious voice acting, the boss fights, the single-player mode (if you simply can’t abide randos, even friendly ones), or Molly the “minecart”. If you haven’t tried DRG yet, you owe it to yourself to give it a shot. You owe it to Karl.

Something a little different: Aliens: Fireteam Elite [Steam]

Game over, man! How can I recommend Aliens Fireteam Elite when it barely scores higher than Back 4 Blood? Well, the simple fact is that I really, really bought into the Aliens atmosphere this game delivers in spades. Whether that’s the film-like military comms between you and Sergeant Herrerra in Tactical, the nicely recreated Aliens-style sci-fi bunkers and hangars, or the strong sound design recreating the sweet sweet rapid-fire of your M56 Smartgun, the whole thing feels like the films. There’s also the now-iconic echoing blip of your gun’s movement scanner to raise the tension. And the aliens’ elephant-like death scream just never gets old.

Similarly, if you’ve played Alien: Isolation, you’ll appreciate the Weyland Yutani synth units and their creepy, lifeless voices. Indeed, play single player and you’ll get two such combat synths to join you on your mission. And yep, I said two units - oddly enough, this is a three-player game, not a four-player game.

That incredibly authentic in-mission atmosphere does suffer a little when you get back to the main hub, a space craft in orbit around LV-895, an Engineer planet and the setting for the game. Despite Cold Iron Studios being a 60+ person outfit, and despite the excellent voice-acting, none of the character’s faces are animated, which is actually weirdly unsettling in a 2021 game. But many of the in-game dramatic reveals and set pieces are genuinely jaw-dropping, such as when Lieutenant Ko’s dropship clears a bridge of aliens as you run across it in a rocket barrage that can only be described as spectacular overkill.

There are only 3 missions plus a DLC mission, which each consist of 3 story sections, amounting to around 20-30 minutes per section of gameplay. Honestly, that’s pretty short and you’ll clear the bulk of the content in around 6 to 10 hours at the lowest difficulty. Sure, it’s reasonably priced at £25.99 (without DLC), and personally, I managed 65 hours in this beautiful shooter… but I can’t lie when I say I wanted more, which is actually an endorsement of how fun the shooting actually is! Sadly, the lack of mod support definitely hurts here, especially when there’s so little variety in playthroughs (minor randomisation only).

But there’s a lot to like here. Superb and meaningful progression for up to 7 classes (which play very differently), lots of mods for your weapons, heaps of perks that can be upgraded in a satisfying jigsaw puzzle as you level up. A large variety of weapons, from pistols to SMGs, shotguns to smart-guns, rifles to flamethrowers, there’s something for everyone. The clever “Battle Card” system is great too, introducing a massive variety of special buffs and debuffs for enhanced rewards. Some of these are incredibly inventive too, like the one that makes the whole mission look like the helmet-cams from the film, or one where if you move into a team mate, it stumbles them. Difficulty can be set too, introducing varying levels of friendly fire and intensity of the hordes.

If you can find two friends to play with, it’s an engrossing experience.

And the rest

World War Z [Steam]

I haven’t played this one, but it gets decent reviews on Steam and certainly captures the sheer size of the hordes you see in the film of the same name. Some complaints about the grind, but definitely one to look into further.

Killing Floor 2 [Steam]

Slicker follow up to the original game and features more classes and more progression along with a little more enemy variety coupled with new maps and bosses. Ultimately very, very similar and that’s going to be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your opinion on the first game!

Outriders [Steam]

I’d love to describe this as a sleeper hit - it’s made by the same team that produced Painkiller Black Edition and Bulletstorm, it’s published by Square Enix, and yet no-one has heard of it. Truth is though, despite being excellent, it’s stupidly overpriced. I enjoyed it, it’s good, but it’s typically around £50… on sale for the full game (with DLC)! Worth checking out, but I only played for around 30 hours in the end, so I have serious reservations over the value for money I got.

Warhammer Vermintide 2 [Steam]

While the game itself plays fine to a platinum level, sadly Fatshark couldn’t wrap their head around how to enable the anti-cheat properly. So while you can host a game on Linux, you can’t actually join games. Fatshark swear it’s either Epic, or Valve’s fault, and with their new (largely panned) sequel now out, it’s unlikely this will ever be fixed. Which is a shame, because there’s some nice progression and pretty graphics on show here. If you have 3 Windows-using friends and you’re prepared to host every session, this might be fun. For the rest of us though, it’s a pass.

The Anacrusis [Steam]

Made by Stray Dog, a studio created by an ex-Valve staffer who worked on Left 4 Dead (sound familiar?) this is the true indie version of Left 4 Dead, complete with jank. It gets generally good reviews despite some lobby issues, and it looks like it captures the spirit of the game, if not the polish.

GTFO [Steam]

A little bit different, this one! Yes, it’s 4 player-coop, yes, you fight off hordes of alien-like creatures and yes, it’s dark and full of horror. However, a lot of GTFO is actually based on stealth, and requires absolute coordination between players. Absolute. If you end up shooting for any length of time, your run is likely over! Steep learning curve but it has a cult following and still garners more players per day than Back 4 Blood. Also recommended by streamer, GTFO expert and GOL supporter, Corben!

No More Room in Hell [Steam]

This was originally a Half Life 2 mod, launched in 2011, but made it to a full release via Steam’s Greenlight scheme in 2013. It’s free to play and still supported today, with bug fixes and feature releases every few months. If this 8-player, native co-op shooter takes your fancy, keep your eyes peeled for the upcoming sequel.

Phew, we’re done. I feel like I need a lie down after all that tension. As usual, feel free to educate me on what I’ve missed or gotten wrong in the comments. I still lean towards single-player games, but writing this article has reminded me of all the fun to be had when you team up with some friends (or dwarves) for the greater good. Hopefully this gives you some ideas yourself!

Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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About the author -
author picture
I'm Neil, an avid Linux user since 2006 and a Linux-only gamer since 2013. I used to contribute to GOL's Funding Crowd articles, but now contribute the odd article directly, most recently the Play It Now series, and the IYL articles.

I also occasionally dabble a bit in Python, I do Internet Security for a living and finally, I'm a big fan of Neil Degrasse Tyson. And not just because he has a cool first name.
See more from me
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20 comments

drjoms May 25, 2023
B4B, sunk 500 hours into it. Its a good game.
Before leaping into higher difficulties, complete whole game on a lower one. There IS learning curve. Game requires some inteligence and deck building. Which I love, but not everyone will agree.
Game does not forgive errors of one player on higher difficulty levels.
On harder difficulties It will punish all 4 of you for mistakes of one, 3 seconds AFK can be VERY punishing for all your team.
Expect, as such, nerdy dedicated randos in your team. So randos can be toxic. I know i will straight tell people who join harder games, that they don't know what they do and need to play on lower difficulties. And this is kind approach...

Aliens Fireteam is also fun. BUT. No communication with randos that join you. Hence can't be toxic. Game is relatively polished, but a bit on a cheaper side.
Would recommend.

Deep Rock Galactic - most noob friendly game from that list for sure.
Great community, but i am not that keen on Fantasy setting. Albeit its more sciency fictiony than fantasy.
Still good game and would recommend.

Would also recommend both world war z, and Killing Floor 2.

All in my list but Aliens Fireteam support FSR, so free fps boost!
Drakker May 25, 2023
Same here, I don't get all the hate that Back 4 Blood gets. Sure, its not as polished as L4D, the physics are really basic and bodies and items won't fly all over the place, but the gameplay is solid. It's a lot more hardcore than L4D, you need careful consideration when crafting your deck, and a bit of grinding is required to get all the better cards, but there are so many possibilities, L4D can't do that. Of course, if you only play casually once in a while with other casual players, stick to L4D, its a way better game for casual play. L4D is way easier to learn for new players and doesn't require a considerable time investment to craft decks that will allow you to survive on the harder difficulty levels that B4B offers. I think both games are great, and both have their places. I know I will continue to play them both for the years to come.
dpanter May 25, 2023
If you don't rock and stone, you ain't coming home!

DRG is simply one of the greatest games of all time.

Starship Troopers: Extermination deserves mention, 16-player co-op fps in the universe we all know and love.
StoneColdSpider May 25, 2023
Even though I played Left 4 Dead 1 and 2 for hundreds of hours...... The only two things I can really remember are....

1. "PILLS HERE.... I GOT PILLS HERE......"
2. Carrying that stupid gnome through the carnival......

Sadly most of my gaming "friends" are now either married or divorced and I dont have any contact with them...... So I dont play these types of games any more......

The last co-op game I played was Payday 2......
a0kami May 26, 2023
Anyone played Zombie Master from the hl² mods era ?
One of my best MP zombie experience, let me talk about it a bit.

TL;DR: many FPS-camera playing survivors against one RTS-camera playing mastermind who command hordes of zombies, there is a native linux build of the mod.

Zombie Master was a multiplayer source engine mod where a random single player who is elected Zombie Master fights all the other players who are survivors and wish them (un)dead.
A round on a map works as a campaign much like L4D, survivors (playing with a FPS view) gotta try to escape by any mean, repair/refuel a generator, find keys/batteries/equipment, smash a wall, whatever..
BUT the zombie master solely plays with a RTS-style, earning some kind of credits over time and can spend them to
1) spawn from specific sites different kind of zombies and direct them toward players or plan ambushes, weak ones, huge and strong but slow ones, very dangerous fast ones..
2) set or activate environment traps, break platforms, debris falling from ceiling, electric hazards, or even mad contraptions and so on..

The fact that hordes of shamblers up my ass were deliberately controlled by a single player trying to think a few steps ahead to corner me specifically, adrenaline rushing as I'm running out of bullets, finally getting to climb that damn hill or cross that damn crypt, finding a shelter after a fellow survivor saved my ass and to whom I returned the favour slightly later, as they'd eventually end up dead in a unfortunate trap a few meters ahead. This was hl² flat graphics, but this was intense.
On the opposite, wiping your first team of survivors when playing as the master unleashed that mischievous sense of achievement.
The fun was mostly thanks of really well crafted or surprising maps, a few memorable tributes to zombie movies as well.

I wish there would be some people working on that concept with current industry standards, though there's a mod revival project "Zombie Master: Reborn", yet it would seem to be huge amount of work in bugfixing and overhauling and the community is pretty small.
Anyway it's open source and community driven effort and there's a native linux build as of 2021.
scaine May 26, 2023
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Quoting: drjomsB4B, sunk 500 hours into it. Its a good game.
Quoting: DrakkerSame here, I don't get all the hate that Back 4 Blood gets.
I'm curious if the ProtonDB reports are false then? Is EAC working consistently now? There are still recent reports that EAC kicks you out on Linux, although many SteamDeck reports that it's okay? Or are you both playing on Windows?

Regardless, after watching that comparison video, it's obvious that there just isn't the same quality or attention to detail that L4D has. But thanks for pointing out the higher-difficult modes and deckbuilding, which definitely adds strategy and stronger class-based options than L4D can offer.

I still wouldn't touch it with a bargepole due to Denuvo (and the price), but I suspect I've been far too harsh on the gameplay aspects, given both your comments!
Drakker May 26, 2023
I don't have Windows. I got B4B in the ukraine bundle, around when proton was updated to support their anti cheat. Works fine. All my friends are on windows and we have zero problems in multiplayer. I ended up buying all the expansions and they all work fine too. The only problems is with the in game movies, they start to stutter after a while, but its a very minor problem and once you have seen them, you always skip them afterward anyway.
Tchey May 26, 2023
In the same genre i’d say, a new game to come that seems great : Helldivers 2.
scaine May 26, 2023
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Quoting: TcheyIn the same genre i’d say, a new game to come that seems great : Helldivers 2.

They're doing a sequel? The first game was a LOT of fun. Almost like bits of Magicka, but mixed into a sci-fi universe, in a mission-based, satisfying shooter hellscape. This is GREAT news.

Although, now that I see it - different studio, different style entirely (over-the-should third-person, instead of Diablo-like). Still, very exciting!!
MiZoG May 27, 2023
if you like... a good read
Excellent content. Keep it up.
drjoms May 28, 2023
Quoting: scaine
Quoting: drjomsB4B, sunk 500 hours into it. Its a good game.
Quoting: DrakkerSame here, I don't get all the hate that Back 4 Blood gets.
I'm curious if the ProtonDB reports are false then? Is EAC working consistently now? There are still recent reports that EAC kicks you out on Linux, although many SteamDeck reports that it's okay? Or are you both playing on Windows?

I still wouldn't touch it with a bargepole due to Denuvo (and the price), but I suspect I've been far too harsh on the gameplay aspects, given both your comments!

Its EAC which you mentioned earlier and NOT Denuvo. I understand those are two different things.
I wont talk for everyone, but for myself. I am gentoo user. Later glibc update broke support for me:
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/issues/6051
And recompiling glibc helped with EAC.
So i was affected and recompiling glibc helped me.
itscalledreality May 30, 2023
> The best thing that Back for Blood accomplished was making people realize how good Left 4 Dead really was

I think this is an entirely unfair thing to say and a label that society placed on Back 4 Blood. Turtle Rock Studios never made claims that the game would be Left 4 Dead 3, even though they created Left 4 Dead. It is society’s own damn fault if you can’t get over that connection. They are similar but very different games. This stigma is just juvenile. It still sells at $50 because it still sells at $50.
dpanter May 30, 2023
Quoting: itscalledreality> The best thing that Back for Blood accomplished was making people realize how good Left 4 Dead really was
I think this is an entirely unfair thing to say and a label that society placed on Back 4 Blood. Turtle Rock Studios never made claims that the game would be Left 4 Dead 3, even though they created Left 4 Dead. It is society’s own damn fault if you can’t get over that connection. They are similar but very different games. This stigma is just juvenile. It still sells at $50 because it still sells at $50.

Oh boy.
Back 4 Blood was a failure any which way you look at it. Steam reviews rate it mixed, which is a really bad score. The asking price for this clunker is 60€ (base), 90€ (deluxe, 100€ (ultimate) and it has 'annual pass' for another 40€ and three dlc for 15€ each. This is a lazy cash grab and the reviews panned it for so many good reasons, chief among them - it's simply not a good game.

B4B is not selling much at all, people aren't playing. It died of mediocrity only a few months after release. Quick check on SteamCharts shows 1266 avg/2675 peak players in the last 30 days, or roughly 4% compared to launch month. For reference, L4D2 (rated Overwhelmingly Positive) had 20490 avg/37915 peak players same period, and it costs less than 10€.

The reason B4B gets compared to the far superior games of the same type/genre is because it is of the same type/genre. It doesn't matter what TRS said or didn't say. The game is boring, uninspiring, tedious, lackluster, unpolished, in all ways a subpar entry that will never match L4D2. And they want how much money?! Yeah, no, it's dead.
Feel free to enjoy it if you like, it changes nothing of what I wrote here. How you spend your time is your choice.
itscalledreality May 31, 2023
Quoting: dpanter
Quoting: itscalledreality> The best thing that Back for Blood accomplished was making people realize how good Left 4 Dead really was
I think this is an entirely unfair thing to say and a label that society placed on Back 4 Blood. Turtle Rock Studios never made claims that the game would be Left 4 Dead 3, even though they created Left 4 Dead. It is society’s own damn fault if you can’t get over that connection. They are similar but very different games. This stigma is just juvenile. It still sells at $50 because it still sells at $50.

Oh boy.
Back 4 Blood was a failure any which way you look at it. Steam reviews rate it mixed, which is a really bad score. The asking price for this clunker is 60€ (base), 90€ (deluxe, 100€ (ultimate) and it has 'annual pass' for another 40€ and three dlc for 15€ each. This is a lazy cash grab and the reviews panned it for so many good reasons, chief among them - it's simply not a good game.

B4B is not selling much at all, people aren't playing. It died of mediocrity only a few months after release. Quick check on SteamCharts shows 1266 avg/2675 peak players in the last 30 days, or roughly 4% compared to launch month. For reference, L4D2 (rated Overwhelmingly Positive) had 20490 avg/37915 peak players same period, and it costs less than 10€.

The reason B4B gets compared to the far superior games of the same type/genre is because it is of the same type/genre. It doesn't matter what TRS said or didn't say. The game is boring, uninspiring, tedious, lackluster, unpolished, in all ways a subpar entry that will never match L4D2. And they want how much money?! Yeah, no, it's dead.
Feel free to enjoy it if you like, it changes nothing of what I wrote here. How you spend your time is your choice.

Oh girl.
Okay well you just soak up as much stigma and complaints that the zombies don’t have dynamic stumbling, meanwhile I’ll be having fun with friends and strangers who don’t care about that. Really hold it up to whatever comparison you want, calling it not as popular or unique. As you can see by your numbers, some people don’t have a stick up their bum about it and do indeed still play it, even pay for it.

ITS NOT THE BEST OR COOLEST OR THE MOST PLAYED isn’t a valuable metric in a consumer hobby. Sorry you wrote it off so easily.
scaine May 31, 2023
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Quoting: itscalledreality> The best thing that Back for Blood accomplished was making people realize how good Left 4 Dead really was

I think this is an entirely unfair thing to say and a label that society placed on Back 4 Blood. Turtle Rock Studios never made claims that the game would be Left 4 Dead 3, even though they created Left 4 Dead. It is society’s own damn fault if you can’t get over that connection. They are similar but very different games. This stigma is just juvenile. It still sells at $50 because it still sells at $50.
TRS might not have claimed to be making L4D3, but the media certainly did, right alongside implying that TRS were the "creators of L4D", which they obviously lapped up. Remember that TRS, back then, was only 6 members of the 200 or so Valve staff that created or contributed to L4D. They wanted ALL the associations so that people would buy into their game.

As for selling for $50 because it sells at $50? Well, it doesn't, which is why it's almost permanently on sale for around $15 at other stores and frequently discounted on Steam to around the same price.

Stats like this don't lie.


I love that you love this game, but you're definitely a minority. Which is fine - I have a heap of games I love that aren't mainstream. I'm not sure why you're being, well, slightly aggressively defensive about it.

It's just not one that I'll ever try, thanks to Denuvo.
itscalledreality Jun 2, 2023
Quoting: scaineIt's just not one that I'll ever try, thanks to Denuvo.

I actually don’t care if you want to talk nasty about a game, but you should at least play it first instead of criticizing it with a bunch of half truths and just writing it off because “that’s what a bunch of people on the internet said”.

“A direct clone” is just not true at all.

Quoting: scaineAs for selling for $50 because it sells at $50? Well, it doesn't, which is why it's almost permanently on sale for around $15 at other stores and frequently discounted on Steam to around the same price.

I don’t even know how to respond to this because you are the one who wrote in the article that it still costs around $50 (okay ~50 gbp actually).

Quoting: scaineTurtle Rock Studios are still asking £49.99 for Back 4 Blood, despite its “mixed” review status on Steam.

It’s not the greatest game but I think it deserves a fairer shake.
14 Jun 4, 2023
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I will say that the classes in Outriders play differently enough to make multiple playthroughs worth it, especially with a buddy or two. I have beaten the game twice now, and I would be up for a third time. Also, why would you scare people away by saying it's 50 GBP on sale? You don't need any DLC. You can get the game for $16.

I loved Outriders. There is also a demo, by the way. To me, Outriders felt so good, it was like a brand new Gears of War. I mean the first one that came out and felt like something new and amazing.


Last edited by 14 on 4 June 2023 at 1:29 pm UTC
scaine Jun 4, 2023
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Quoting: 14Also, why would you scare people away by saying it's 50 GBP on sale?

Haha - that wasn't my intention! I loved the game, and there's decent end-game content if you invest yourself in the game. But at the end of the day, if you want the whole experience, nothing I said was a lie. Sure, you can pick up the base game on sale for £13 (or $16 as you note), but if you want the full game, it's never gone below 25% (as it is right now) and that's £50. It's just not great value for money, unless you intend to really, really dedicate yourself to it.

I finished it twice and agree that there is some enjoyment in how differently the characters play. But I didn't feel like doing a third run, and I can't away from the fact that my 30 hours of playthrough for £50 just isn't great value, especially when I stack it next to something like Gunfire Reborn, Deep Rock Galactic, or Noita.

Great fun though, excellent gun play, and some interesting skills and customisation!
14 Jun 5, 2023
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Quoting: scaineI finished it twice and agree that there is some enjoyment in how differently the characters play. But I didn't feel like doing a third run, and I can't away from the fact that my 30 hours of playthrough for £50 just isn't great value, especially when I stack it next to something like Gunfire Reborn, Deep Rock Galactic, or Noita.
Wait, your combined playthroughs only amounted to 30 hours? Mine were 30 hours each! Did you have automatic world level-up turned on?
scaine Jun 5, 2023
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Quoting: 14
Quoting: scaineI finished it twice and agree that there is some enjoyment in how differently the characters play. But I didn't feel like doing a third run, and I can't away from the fact that my 30 hours of playthrough for £50 just isn't great value, especially when I stack it next to something like Gunfire Reborn, Deep Rock Galactic, or Noita.
Wait, your combined playthroughs only amounted to 30 hours? Mine were 30 hours each! Did you have automatic world level-up turned on?

Yep! Well, not for the first couple of levels, then I realised you pretty much need it to keep the challenge up. Now you mention though, I don't think I finished the Worldslayer content on my second playthrough. There were also plenty of side missions I hadn't done - my style with these games is to stay-on-target with the main storyline as much as I can, unless the challenge is too much, then I go back and do side-missions until I'm sufficiently powerful to continue. I wouldn't describe as a boss rush, but I do tend to stay pretty focused. And of course, second time around I knew exactly what I was doing.
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