Immersion Corporation sues Valve over Steam Deck and Valve Index haptics tech

particularly in the medical field.

medical? what a bunch of a** holes


Last edited by elmapul on 17 May 2023 at 5:06 pm UTC

The truth is stranger than fiction.

-Mark Twain

Microsoft literally funded the 20 year lawsuit against Linux through SCO to try to snuff us out.

Fuck Microsoft. They are likely at it again after the Microsoft ASUS ROG Ally

https://lwn.net/Articles/924577/

Microsoft, which had not yet learned to love Linux, funded SCO and loudly bought licenses from the company.

IDK. Copyright ils definitely way too long, and it's absurd that it outlasts patents.

Patents on the other hand, are quite interesting, though they have been subverted with time (as with anything when lawyers get involved). They offer companies to publish their trade secrets against time-limited exclusivity. Sounds like a good deal, as it avoids "well, that is something only company X knew how to do, but they went belly up 50 years ago" situations. Also, you need to pay (more and more with time) to extend them, up to 20 years.

I'm looking into patenting an electronics circuit myself (PhD results), which is quite innovative. If the patent sale or licensing could give me a few funds to pursue more research, I'd be happy with that. In this situation, I see the patent system as "outsourcing R&D".

I'm a bit sad that you need a lawyer to draft them up though, that makes patents expensive to do for individuals like me (yeah, patenting through my lab is... complicated, and I'm not employed anymore anyway).
Also, most companies take the approach of "describing as little as you can", which is against the spirit.

And then there's patent trolls and patents of little substance. You're not supposed to be able to patent an idea, and I believe patents to last way too long for software, where time-to-market is much, much shorter than, say, the 5-10 years it generally takes in electronics or other industrial domains (not even counting the time to obtain funding if you are starting a product from scratch as a startup).

I can't really judge for this situation, maybe their claims are legitimate? I'd have to read the

Judging from their Wikipedia page I'd wager they're patent trolls. They have tens of millions in revenue while having only 26 people employed and owning tens of thousands of patents by buying up companies, particularly in the medical field. They actually worked with Microsoft in the late 90s but the sued them in 2002... Here's the kicker. They sued based on a patent they acquired from another company in 98.

This is 100% a patent trolling company.

Immersion used to be THE company people would license their tech/API out from for forefeedback joysticks. Have you seen any forcefeedback joysticks being made in a long time? The only ones still made are the wheels, flight sticks generally don't have it anymore (with some very few and very expensive exceptions). It's solely because of these ass clowns either requiring a patent deal or suing those who don't. Not sure where the Haptics come into play, but I bet they 'think' they have rights to everything that gives any sort of feedback, like vibration motors in game pads...

The worst part about patents is that by now, the Patents Office makes zero effort to *actually* grant valid patents, leaving the courts (aka lawyers, aka the deepest pockets win) to attribute valid and legitimate ones and troll ones.

So, a sub-strate of filthy scumbags (patent lawyers) thrives on the apathy of the aforementioned office, sucking dry innovative, but resource-strapped entities and encourage the creation of patent trolling companies.

The few, real, tangible benefits of granting commercial exclusivity to ingenous people and companies is FAR outshadowed by this disgusting by-product.

The American Patent system: The reason nobody can ever have nice things.

Man, Immersion Corporation! I haven't heard that name in a while! I instantly remembered the name as being associated with patent-trolling - glad to see that I had the correct company.

then i think you should watch the rog ally presentation.
not only they have an device to compete with the deck (an partnership with the vendors of one) but they spread FUD and miss information there.

i mean, they implied you cant do your homework on steamOS... (they said you can do it on the ally because its running windows)
implied you cant use xcloud (despite the fact that they thenselves officially support it)
implied you cant use netflix.
implied that windows is more compatible (when we know its the opposite, games that are compatible with it not the other way arround)

A fellow GOL'er showed me this a couple of days ago: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/save-dollardollardollar-on-the-rog-ally-by-resetting-and-trading-in-your-steam-deck-gaming-handheld/ar-AA1b4Wka

How convenient!

The truth is stranger than fiction.

-Mark Twain

Microsoft literally funded the 20 year lawsuit against Linux through SCO to try to snuff us out.

Fuck Microsoft. They are likely at it again after the Microsoft ASUS ROG Ally

https://lwn.net/Articles/924577/

Microsoft, which had not yet learned to love Linux, funded SCO and loudly bought licenses from the company.

Just like netbooks all over again...


Last edited by Pengling on 18 May 2023 at 1:07 am UTC

A fellow GOL'er showed me this a couple of days ago: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/save-dollardollardollar-on-the-rog-ally-by-resetting-and-trading-in-your-steam-deck-gaming-handheld/ar-AA1b4Wka

How convenient!

LOL half of me is worried that this marketing stunt can be effective, the other half cant stop laughing at how desperate microsoft is!
actually... i think im more into the laughing side.


"The Steam Deck is still quite popular and so a used Steam Deck 512GB SSD in good condition can be sold for $500 to $600 on average. Meanwhile, a 256GB Steam Deck in good condition tends to go for $400 to $450, and the 64GB Steam Deck is typically worth $350 to $400 if in good condition."
LOL they are implying you can sell it for almost as much money as you spend on a new one direct from valve!
if they truly believe that, then we can assume they are admiting that the value perception of the deck wasnt affected by the announcement of their own product.

and will be able to play Steam games as well as games on Nvidia GeForce Now, Game Pass, and more.

thos *** holes are still implying you cant use GFN on a steam deck.


Last edited by elmapul on 18 May 2023 at 3:11 am UTC

A fellow GOL'er showed me this a couple of days ago: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/save-dollardollardollar-on-the-rog-ally-by-resetting-and-trading-in-your-steam-deck-gaming-handheld/ar-AA1b4Wka

How convenient!

I hoped that Microsoft would change. But it seems I do have to migrate anything on github away from github as Microsoft still seems to be this incredible FUD poison. They literally made hell for me for 30 years starting with their crap that they called operating system. As a software developer I ended up maintaining client pc's because of this CRAP OS instead of delivering software that tracks pollution in the ground, in that time rather unique.
Then they started to shit FUD all over us Linux users, while I as an agnostic mostly unix type user needed Unix and Linux systems due to severe lack of working compilers from and for Microsoft platforms.
The more I stepped away from that terrible microsoft world, the harder they began to scream.
In hindsight: a linux system would have cut down development time by years and it would still work today. But the world changed into a world were you had to keep your network open to crap, despite microsoft trying hard to monopolize networking by staying away from tcp/ip.
f*ck... I need to stop ranting.
But even now: I setup incredible cloud systems that are capable of running loads of vms and containers, yet these windows developers can not think any further than everything and all needs to be running on the sql server vm and hence the sql server vm needs to have *all* resources of the cloud and then they are angry because they did nothing to prevent crap filling the disks and they can't reindex the tables now and are angry that despite them filling all of the cloud they can not quickly order some usb disk to attach to the server so they can do backups.
Really the mind of most windows developers are so constrained because they never are able to venture outside their desktop.
The difference between "The Network is the Computer" and "My desktop is the Computer".
Sh*t I ranted again. 30 years of microsoft fud.

Skimming over the Patents, it's really absurd that stuff like that can even be patented...

And of course they wait two years to sue so that the 'damage' is worthwhile. Disgusting parasites...

This seems slightly iffy, but I'm sure it will work itself out. And worse case, Valve will probably have to pay a fine, which, let's be honest, isn't really going to hurt them.

A fellow GOL'er showed me this a couple of days ago: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/save-dollardollardollar-on-the-rog-ally-by-resetting-and-trading-in-your-steam-deck-gaming-handheld/ar-AA1b4Wka

Am I the only one that thinks that the headline sounds like a typical scam email? “Save $$$ on…” – delete.

thos *** holes are still implying you cant use GFN on a steam deck.

Ha, Geforce Now even works on the Atari VCS...

"Intellectual property" is just plain stupid and should be scrapped altogether.

Valve should also remove haptic modules from their products, they add nothing of value.


Last edited by thykr on 18 May 2023 at 4:33 pm UTC

This seems slightly iffy, but I'm sure it will work itself out. And worse case, Valve will probably have to pay a fine, which, let's be honest, isn't really going to hurt them.

this is a civil case so there will be no fines, if Valve is deemed guilty then they will have to pay whatever that Immersion says is their license fee for every single unit of Steam Decks sold. It could easily be billions.

Immersion also want the court to forbid Valve from selling more Steam Decks and Index:es.


Last edited by F.Ultra on 18 May 2023 at 6:55 pm UTC

Immersion also want the court to forbid Valve from selling more Steam Decks and Index:es.

There. You have it. Everything happens at the same time. Asus releases the Ally with a big marketing push from Asus and Microsoft for a garbage experience handheld and Immersion patent trolls Valve to stop them from selling the Steam Deck. You'll tell me it's not all coordinated?

They know it's impossible to beat the Steam Deck. Microsoft wants to burry it and probably kill the handheld market.

Afterall, for MS, gaming = Xbox, not PC.

That's what I think.

Edit: If they succeed in killing the Steam Deck, the Ally II will not be sold at 700$ and it's going to be the end of handhelds. They are probably selling it at a loss because of M$ money.


Last edited by Mohandevir on 18 May 2023 at 10:19 pm UTC

Immersion also want the court to forbid Valve from selling more Steam Decks and Index:es.

They want Valve to be prohibited unless they pay the tithe. Some fee on the units they've sold to date is much less attractive than the fee on the (15? maybe?) millions of future units, plus the fees on Deck 2/Index 2/Controller 2 in the future. They want to just kick back and collect rent; the threat of an injunction is the stick to make everyone get a licence.

Immersion also want the court to forbid Valve from selling more Steam Decks and Index:es.

They want Valve to be prohibited unless they pay the tithe. Some fee on the units they've sold to date is much less attractive than the fee on the (15? maybe?) millions of future units, plus the fees on Deck 2/Index 2/Controller 2 in the future. They want to just kick back and collect rent; the threat of an injunction is the stick to make everyone get a licence.

This is where I'm a firm believer that the patent system needs to be changed so that if you are not making a physical product based upon a patent you have filed away, then you lose claims to that patent and it becomes public domain. It's that way for Trademarks, basically.

hi let's hope that Valve has the backbone to tell this patent troll where to stick their patents and they make a steam controller 2 or they start making the steam controller 1

I think the time is over to think of MS as the pure evil in a company form.

NO M$ is pure evil in a company form why do you think you can not remove telemetry or disable auto updates without hacking the system this is getting into a rant about why I HATE !!! M$ embrace extend extinguish today's M$ is the same M$ as old pure evil

Immersion also want the court to forbid Valve from selling more Steam Decks and Index:es.

They want Valve to be prohibited unless they pay the tithe. Some fee on the units they've sold to date is much less attractive than the fee on the (15? maybe?) millions of future units, plus the fees on Deck 2/Index 2/Controller 2 in the future. They want to just kick back and collect rent; the threat of an injunction is the stick to make everyone get a licence.

Perhaps, I'm not savvy enough with the lawyer speak in their filing, all I saw was that they have this in their prayer for relief:

B. that the Court enter an injunction prohibiting Valve and its agents, officers,
servants, employees, and all persons in active concert or participation with Valve from deploying,
operating, maintaining, testing, and using the Accused Handheld Instrumentalities and Accused
VR Instrumentalities, and from otherwise infringing any of the Patents-in-Suit;

Perhaps that is as you say intended to be interpreted as just being until they pay some license, but I could not find any text in the actual filing making that demand explicitly.

edit: ok so reading up on it a bit more I think maybe possibly that just asking for a injunction is temporary while they would have asked for a "permanent injunction" if it was to ban them outright from selling the product again.


Last edited by F.Ultra on 19 May 2023 at 7:28 pm UTC

Immersion also want the court to forbid Valve from selling more Steam Decks and Index:es.

They want Valve to be prohibited unless they pay the tithe. Some fee on the units they've sold to date is much less attractive than the fee on the (15? maybe?) millions of future units, plus the fees on Deck 2/Index 2/Controller 2 in the future. They want to just kick back and collect rent; the threat of an injunction is the stick to make everyone get a licence.

This is where I'm a firm believer that the patent system needs to be changed so that if you are not making a physical product based upon a patent you have filed away, then you lose claims to that patent and it becomes public domain. It's that way for Trademarks, basically.

I think that it's a bit more complicated than that, yes patent trolls use this all the time, they have no products and no employees so that they will never ever be hit by a countersuit. But then you could be a lone inventor that just invents new interesting stuff that you then license out to industry that have the capacity to create the stuff that you yourself doesn't and such a rule would hurt such individuals.

hi let's hope that Valve has the backbone to tell this patent troll where to stick their patents and they make a steam controller 2 or they start making the steam controller 1

I think the time is over to think of MS as the pure evil in a company form.

NO M$ is pure evil in a company form why do you think you can not remove telemetry or disable auto updates without hacking the system this is getting into a rant about why I HATE !!! M$ embrace extend extinguish today's M$ is the same M$ as old pure evil

Well the problem for Valve is that Immersion seems to have standing, I mean they have the patents, the patents are valid and have been enforced before (so the likelihood of this court invalidating them is less than 0) AND they filed in the patent friendliest court in the US of A so Valve is kinda shafted here. I don't see any other way for them than doing some out of court settlement for X amount of millions and get e perpetual license for all of Immersions patents.


Last edited by F.Ultra on 19 May 2023 at 7:34 pm UTC