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PayPalUpdate 29/05: According to Pierre Bourdon on Mastodon, who was Dolphin's treasurer for the foundation backing the project (Bourdon is stepping down), Valve actually initiated the conversation to check in with Nintendo on this. So this is not a DMCA takedown request but Nintendo said it would violate the DMCA anti-circumvention provisions, so Valve took it down. So there's technically nothing for Dolphin to counter here.
Kotaku also got a statement from Nintendo on this:
“Nintendo is committed to protecting the hard work and creativity of video game engineers and developers,” a spokesperson for Nintendo told Kotaku in an email. “This emulator illegally circumvents Nintendo’s protection measures and runs illegal copies of games. Using illegal emulators or illegal copies of games harms development and ultimately stifles innovation. Nintendo respects the intellectual property rights of other companies, and in turn expects others to do the same.”
The article title was updated to better reflect the situation.
Original article below for context:
Back in March the plan was announced for the Wii and GameCube emulator Dolphin to release on Steam, along with some useful Steam features but now that seems unlikely to happen.
The Dolphin team has now announced that their Steam page was taken down, as Nintendo sent a cease and desist notice to Valve about it. Here's the statement they released:
It is with much disappointment that we have to announce that the Dolphin on Steam release has been indefinitely postponed. We were notified by Valve that Nintendo has issued a cease and desist citing the DMCA against Dolphin's Steam page, and have removed Dolphin from Steam until the matter is settled. We are currently investigating our options and will have a more in-depth response in the near future.
We appreciate your patience in the meantime.
Such a shame.
Why now though? Dolphin has been around since 2003 for GameCube, adding basic Wii support in 2007, so Dolphin was there during the time the Wii was still being fully supported. Nintendo also only went after the Steam page, not the project as a whole as it can still be found on GitHub and official site. According to a comment from the Citra developer on Reddit, it's due to Dolphin including decryption keys with the project.
Really, it's not going to do Nintendo much good, it's put Dolphin all over the news and even more people will now know about it and end up using it.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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ElectricPrism May 29, 2023
I'd love to see somebody make a MiniDVD ROM jetpack for the Deck and have players post pictures of them playing gamecube discs on Deck.
1 Likes, Who?
“People who emulate games are all committing piracy.”
I can't remember somebody saying this. Could you cite it please?
Right, "game preservation", by which most people mean "free games".
3 Likes, Who?
Just as a side note, and I know that it is not a fair use in any way, but having those games around "for free" is also part of what I'd call preservation. I mean, who has the money to buy a vintage Catlevania? Retro gaming has entered a new era when professional collectors entered the game and prices are skyrocketing across all platforms.“People who emulate games are all committing piracy.”
I can't remember somebody saying this. Could you cite it please?
Right, "game preservation", by which most people mean "free games".
I am a "retro gamer" myself and still buying games for my Sega systems from time to time, but for example buying PAL Saturn games is something you can't reasonably afford nowadays.
Also supplies are getting scarce because of CD rot, hardware failure and life hazards, so what can be done about this?
Add in community patches and translation that would have never happened either way, and you've got the big picture.
I am all for developers and editors charging for their IPs, but as of today there is no complete offer from any historical hardware maker, so that's where our good old geek community comes to help. That may sound ugly and I apologise for saying "piracy" may in some corner cases be of "public interest," and I still think some additional legislation should be put into place so that we are able to get to a middle ground where everyone is satisfied, but in the mean time we should be thankful this exists at all...
1 Likes, Who?
“People who emulate games are all committing piracy.”
I can't remember somebody saying this. Could you cite it please?
Right, "game preservation", by which most people mean "free games".
"Most" and "all" is a huge difference, and you know that.
1 Likes, Who?
That’s the nice thing: you don’t need to! You just have to murky the waters and blur the line between emulation, game preservation and piracy. You only need to place one group near to the other and subsequently insinuate that there is no difference between both groups at all. Sooner than not game preservationists are deemed criminal and Nintendo’s upper management opens a bottle of champagne to celebrate the successes of the hard-working minions in forums and comment sections.“People who emulate games are all committing piracy.”
I can't remember somebody saying this. Could you cite it please?
I prefer people citing what has actually been said and react to that instead of making up quotes. It always makes it look like they wouldn't trust their arguments enough.
0 Likes
ssj17vegeta May 29, 2023
As a non-american, just asking : can Nintendo be sued for this ? Is there such a thing in US law as a "counter-DMCA" or "abusive use of copyright laws" ?
2 Likes, Who?
As a non-american, just asking : can Nintendo be sued for this ? Is there such a thing in US law as a "counter-DMCA" or "abusive use of copyright laws" ?
The question is not uninteresting, but as things went, it seems they didn't do anything "official" in the first place, just answering Valve's question, so in this case, it's very unlikely.
1 Likes, Who?
ripper81358 May 29, 2023
I use Dolphin myself. Having it available on steam is not critical to me. I have Dolphin installed as a flatpak on my end. So any steamdeck user can easily install it that way too.
1 Likes, Who?
I use Dolphin myself. Having it available on steam is not critical to me. I have Dolphin installed as a flatpak on my end. So any steamdeck user can easily install it that way too.
That's just not how most people will use such a device IMHO.
1 Likes, Who?
I use Dolphin myself. Having it available on steam is not critical to me. I have Dolphin installed as a flatpak on my end. So any steamdeck user can easily install it that way too.
That's just not how most people will use such a device IMHO.
Usually, I'd agree, but I think any crowd comfortable with tinkering with emulation will be absolutely fine booting into desktop mode to install a flatpak. I'm not much a tinkerer, but Liam's article on adding Decky Loader support is so easy to follow and complete that it's absolutely trivial. I doubt many emulation fans will even care that Dolphin is off Steam.
3 Likes, Who?
Mountain Man May 29, 2023
Yes, let's pretend that the overwhelming majority of people using emulators aren't also playing pirated software.Nonsense. Game preservation essentially means keeping games playable on modern hardware. It's not a hard concept to grasp. Emulation is an important part of it, for obvious reasons.Attacking game preservation is unethical. Selling hardware you know is defective is unethical. And those are just two very obvious examples.Right, "game preservation", by which most people mean "free games".
Your "most people" hypothesis is irrelevant in any case as long as this hurts paying customers as well.
You know the truth here, I know it, and Valve and Nintendo know it, which is why Valve offered to remove Dolphin from Steam, and Nintendo, unsurprisingly, said yes. I think what's most surprising about this story is that Valve allowed the emulator on Steam in the first place.
But as far as game preservation is concerned, there's really nothing Nintendo can do to stop it. As long as the internet exists and continues to be minimally regulated by governments, you will be able to download pretty much any game that has ever been created. The only reason the entire Commodore 64 library of games can still be download and played is, ironically, thanks to pirates. While emulation arguably falls into a legal grey area, and downloading pirated software is definitely illegal, it realistically can't be stopped.
1 Likes, Who?
Usually, I'd agree, but I think any crowd comfortable with tinkering with emulation will be absolutely fine booting into desktop mode to install a flatpak.I have personal experience of this. Back when Sony was going after bleem! LLC, it drew major attention to emulation as a whole, and that acted as a springboard - once I and others knew that it could be done there was no issue with learning and tinkering more along the way.
I have no doubt that the attention drawn to this matter by the initial reports will inspire the same in a new generation, who've all just heard "Remember your old GameCube and Wii games? You can play them again on your PC, you know!".
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Yes, let's pretend that the overwhelming majority of people using emulators aren't also playing pirated software.Let's say that is the case, is that wrong? If so why is it wrong? Pirating games that are no longer officially produced or sold on consoles that are no longer officially produced or sold, is that wrong? The only argument that makes sense for copyright law that I've seen is to protect sales, but what sales are there left to protect?
3 Likes, Who?
Mountain Man May 29, 2023
Whether or not you agree with the law as it stands is irrelevant.Yes, let's pretend that the overwhelming majority of people using emulators aren't also playing pirated software.Let's say that is the case, is that wrong? If so why is it wrong? Pirating games that are no longer officially produced or sold on consoles that are no longer officially produced or sold, is that wrong? The only argument that makes sense for copyright law that I've seen is to protect sales, but what sales are there left to protect?
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Ah, so to you it is irrelevant if it is morally correct or not (or the actual purpose of the law), but whether it is legal or not. I hope you will reflect on how you gauge what is wrong if the law ever tries to outlaw something like End-to-End Encryption (they have a few times and thankfully failed)Whether or not you agree with the law as it stands is irrelevant.Yes, let's pretend that the overwhelming majority of people using emulators aren't also playing pirated software.Let's say that is the case, is that wrong? If so why is it wrong? Pirating games that are no longer officially produced or sold on consoles that are no longer officially produced or sold, is that wrong? The only argument that makes sense for copyright law that I've seen is to protect sales, but what sales are there left to protect?
Last edited by JordanPlayz158 on 29 May 2023 at 4:45 pm UTC
2 Likes, Who?
Yes, let's pretend that the overwhelming majority of people using emulators aren't also playing pirated software.Let's say that is the case, is that wrong? If so why is it wrong? Pirating games that are no longer officially produced or sold on consoles that are no longer officially produced or sold, is that wrong? The only argument that makes sense for copyright law that I've seen is to protect sales, but what sales are there left to protect?
What if the owning company decides to release them tomorrow, but everybody who's interested already pirated them yesterday?
Not convinced...
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I believe there was a certain study by the EU that found that piracy only affected sales in one area and that was movie sales. But feel free to provide your own evidence or correct me on the findings of that study.Yes, let's pretend that the overwhelming majority of people using emulators aren't also playing pirated software.Let's say that is the case, is that wrong? If so why is it wrong? Pirating games that are no longer officially produced or sold on consoles that are no longer officially produced or sold, is that wrong? The only argument that makes sense for copyright law that I've seen is to protect sales, but what sales are there left to protect?
What if the owning company decides to release them tomorrow, but everybody who's interested already pirated them yesterday?
Not convinced...
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No, I don't really think it's that huge. "Most people doing X are Y" is enough that for any given person doing X, you would assume they're a Y. So as an insult or an instigation of a moral panic, it's pretty much equivalent.“People who emulate games are all committing piracy.”
I can't remember somebody saying this. Could you cite it please?
Right, "game preservation", by which most people mean "free games".
"Most" and "all" is a huge difference, and you know that.
4 Likes, Who?
I would have figured that the main difference of having it available on Steam with no muss and no fuss would be precisely that a whole lot of people who are not "comfortable with tinkering with emulation" would be comfortable just downloading something from Steam.I use Dolphin myself. Having it available on steam is not critical to me. I have Dolphin installed as a flatpak on my end. So any steamdeck user can easily install it that way too.
That's just not how most people will use such a device IMHO.
Usually, I'd agree, but I think any crowd comfortable with tinkering with emulation will be absolutely fine booting into desktop mode to install a flatpak. I'm not much a tinkerer, but Liam's article on adding Decky Loader support is so easy to follow and complete that it's absolutely trivial. I doubt many emulation fans will even care that Dolphin is off Steam.
1 Likes, Who?
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