Every article tag can be clicked to get a list of all articles in that category. Every article tag also has an RSS feed! You can customize an RSS feed too!
We do often include affiliate links to earn us some pennies. See more here.

Fedora considering adding in 'privacy-preserving' telemetry

By -
Last updated: 8 Jul 2023 at 3:56 pm UTC

Quite a controversial topic currently floating around is that a change proposal has been made for Fedora Workstation 40 to have some "privacy-preserving" telemetry to "enable limited data collection of anonymous Fedora Workstation usage metrics".

This has generated quite the buzz across pretty much everywhere I look, with many people on both sides jumping in to argue about it. One thing to remember though, is that this is a proposal, nothing has been set in stone and the whole idea could be scrapped or changed a lot as discussions go on.

In summary:

Fedora is an open source community project, and nobody is interested in violating user privacy. We do not want to collect data about individual users. We want to collect only aggregate usage metrics that are actually needed to achieve specific Fedora improvement objectives, and no more. We understand that if we violate our users’ trust, then we won’t have many users left, so if metrics collection is approved, we will need to be very careful to roll this out in a way that respects our users at all times. (For example, we should not collect users’ search queries, because that would be creepy.).

We believe an open source community can ethically collect limited aggregate data on how its software is used without involving big data companies or building creepy tracking profiles that are not in the best interests of users. Users will have the option to disable data upload before any data is sent for the first time. Our service will be operated by Fedora on Fedora infrastructure, and will not depend on Google Analytics or any other controversial third-party services. And in contrast to proprietary software operating systems, you can redirect the data collection to your own private metrics server instead of Fedora’s to see precisely what data is being collected from you, because the server components are open source too.

As for what they might actually be collecting there's all sorts but they're not yet being exactly clear on what, because approval for it hasn't happened as it's early days for the proposal. If they do get approval, it seems then they will work out a clear idea of what to collect. They did suggest some of it may be things like what IDEs are popular, the click-through rate of recommended banners in GNOME Software, what panels are most used in gnome-control-center, what type of hard drive you have, count how many users use a particular locale so they can optimize language support and so on.

Telemetry is not actually a bad thing but the way it has been used in the past is what gives it a bad name. Some companies absolutely abused data collection in the past, and plenty still do. There are ways to do it properly though which they seem to be trying to do by fully informing people here.

What's a little confusing though is their part about opt-in versus opt-out. The way it has been explained could have been better. It seems they want to go for opt-out, with it turned on to collect the data by default but not actually upload anything until you've gone through a privacy page when installing Fedora to confirm it. Disabling it will then send them nothing but it will still collect it locally ready for if you turn it on later. For existing users upgrading, it will be opt-in though, as they don't currently have a mechanism for getting user consent through upgrades. This opt-in / opt-out also has it's own discussion area since it's a big thing.

How do you feel about this idea? Let me know in the comments.

Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
14 Likes
About the author -
author picture
I am the owner of GamingOnLinux. After discovering Linux back in the days of Mandrake in 2003, I constantly checked on the progress of Linux until Ubuntu appeared on the scene and it helped me to really love it. You can reach me easily by emailing GamingOnLinux directly. You can also follow my personal adventures on Bluesky.
See more from me
The comments on this article are closed.
All posts need to follow our rules. For users logged in: please hit the Report Flag icon on any post that breaks the rules or contains illegal / harmful content. Guest readers can email us for any issues.
57 comments Subscribe
Page: 1/3»
  Go to:

PublicNuisance 8 Jul 2023
My thoughts would be that if it's opt out instead of opt in by default then it's a terible idea. Also saying "privacy preserving telemetry" is an oxymoron to me. If you are giving up any data then it is not preserving your privacy.
Raaben 8 Jul 2023
I've been using Fedora for a decade, currently on OpenSUSE after I broke something horribly (long story), and keep thinking about going back but things like this make me a bit hesitant now. It's not bad over here and if this is the direction they want to head esp. opt out vs opt in, I might just get comfy where I am. "Privacy-preserving telemetry" made me sigh out loud.
dziadulewicz 8 Jul 2023
This is how it always starts. IBM has never been a Linux company, they have shady past in the 30's 40's Germany and Red Hat is but a name now from what it used to be.

There are plenty of alternatives out there.
PublicNuisance 8 Jul 2023
This is how it always starts. IBM has never been a Linux company, they have shady past in the 30's 40's Germany and Red Hat is but a name now from what it used to be.

There are plenty of alternatives out there.

Exactly. Many people always complain about how many different Linux distros are out there but this is the time when that becomes a huge positive. Try something else.
Steven 8 Jul 2023
I test Fedora from time to time hoping to find it functional for my use. Now, I will not consider it. If you need to improve your product, get your customers talking and sharing.
Grogan 8 Jul 2023
My thoughts would be that if it's opt out instead of opt in by default then it's a terible idea. Also saying "privacy preserving telemetry" is an oxymoron to me. If you are giving up any data then it is not preserving your privacy.

My goodness, it's a trend these days, isn't it. Words mean things... gaslighting buzzwords and phrases piss me off.
eldaking 8 Jul 2023
I believe that the only way to obtain data ethically from software is to not automate it. Users should always be aware and explicitly choose what they share. Thus, if you want usage data, make it as easy and convenient as possible for people to go and answer a survey or post their reports, and encourage them (the simple goodwill of FOSS users posting bug reports and contributing solutions is a great example or "encouragement"). Anything the user can't measure and understand himself should not be shared, as they can't evaluate what sharing that data would mean. Yes, all this means a lot less data and a self-selected sample, and I think that is unavoidable. Simply put: asking for a blank check from users is objectionable even if you don't plan to do anything wrong with it. You should not even ask people for that much trust.

Now, if it is opt-in I don't care as much. The status quo is so bad in various respects that I'm willing to settle for this compromise (even though I still think it is far from ideal)... especially for FOSS projects, where we have more transparency and more assurances. In particular, it is more likely that the interests of users and devs align. When you give data to a proprietary developer to "improve the software", their idea of improvement is likely to be ways to manipulate you and squeeze more money out of you; it is not in your best interest to give them whatever data they want, because your goals are not necessarily theirs.
m2mg2 8 Jul 2023
All my computers are Fedora, we have like 11 in the house (big family). They would all be another distribution shortly after opt out telemetry was enabled. Reading through the threads thankfully it's looking like it won't happen. I agree with many others that telemetry should be packaged separately and shouldn't even be installed unless the user opts in. I'm amazed at how prevalent malicious design has become. How can we train users to spot and avoid malicious activity by malicious individuals when the same methods are used by "legitimate" sources? IMO any design that is intended to circumvent the users intentions and choices is malicious.


Last edited by m2mg2 on 8 Jul 2023 at 7:59 pm UTC
slaapliedje 8 Jul 2023
My question is; after IBM's most recent FU to the open source community... is anyone still going to use Fedora, let alone want to give them any data?
mr-victory 8 Jul 2023
KDE Plasma added opt-in telemetry and life went on. Fedora is considering telemetry and it blew up for some reason.
m2mg2 8 Jul 2023
KDE Plasma added opt-in telemetry and life went on. Fedora is considering telemetry and it blew up for some reason.

The big problem is installing it and activating it by default, giving the option to disable after the fact but you can click through it without even reading it or actually making a choice to authorize it. Opt out

They want to trick people into allowing it. Honestly I may change distros even if they don't move forward just because they are even seriously considering this and their developers are actively pushing for it.


Last edited by m2mg2 on 8 Jul 2023 at 8:20 pm UTC
slaapliedje 8 Jul 2023
KDE Plasma added opt-in telemetry and life went on. Fedora is considering telemetry and it blew up for some reason.

The big problem is installing it and activating it by default, giving the option to disable after the fact but you can click through it without even reading it or actually making a choice to authorize it. Opt out

They want to trick people into allowing it. Honestly I may change distros even if they don't move forward just because they are even seriously considering this and their developers are actively pushing for it.
Debian has had the popularity contest question for ages during install, but the click through / wnter key is by default off. And all that does is set a cron to show packages installed.

Telemetry in any way that is doing things in the background is, in my opinion, wrong. The only exception to that for me would be a bug reporting facility. Print out the crash data, and ask if it is okay to upload to a bugtracker. The thought of my OS just sending off info kind of disgusts me. See how much crap Windows does is appalling.
RenardDesMers 9 Jul 2023
  • Supporter
I must say I was quite baffled by the proponent's opinion that's basically "We want quality data, opt-in is useless data so if it's not opt-out, I don't want it".
ElectricPrism 9 Jul 2023
Good for Debian, Arch and others, bad for Fedora. (making people agitated that is)


Last edited by ElectricPrism on 9 Jul 2023 at 6:00 am UTC
Adutchman 9 Jul 2023
I do agree with most people that this should be opt-in, but I disagree that telemtry cannot be private. In a literal sense this is true, but I don't think that Fedora knowing which setting I use is privacy-invading. Data is so valuable for developers to see what all users are doing, not just power users. No need to do as if Fedora is evil just for collecting a bit of user data. Imo, they should let the user choose at install, let them know what they collect, but let the default option be on. This way, the telemetry is on with more people and the data is actually useful.
omer666 9 Jul 2023
I think privacy advocacy may be going a little over the top on this subject. I'm all for it, I use a zero-access email provider, do my searches on Duckduckgo, have a LineageOS smartphone without Google services and so on, and yet I don't mind them collecting technical data. It's much less complete than Steam hardware survey and yet I'd bet every Linux gamer will gladly answer this one because they want to improve the system's visibility for game developers. Here the devs want to improve the system, but nope, no sir, this is bad and all.
fenglengshun 9 Jul 2023
I personally want this to be turned on, opt-out by default. I saw the proposed design and it seems fine to me. And the potential benefit to me is that Fedora and Gnome may stop being so out of touch that so many people uses the thing they refuse to ship by default for no reason and see any other user experience issues on the platform.
TheSHEEEP 9 Jul 2023
View PC info
  • Supporter Plus
I think privacy advocacy may be going a little over the top on this subject.
That's what they usually do, so yes.

Really, this seems very beneficial and absolutely harmless.
F.Ultra 9 Jul 2023
View PC info
  • Supporter
Red Hat is now owned by IBM which once aided in committing holocaust. Why does IBM get away with this to modern day? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust

To this and every other "IBM IS BEHIND THIS!!!" posts above I just want to point out that Red Hat representatives have come forward (they did this with the recent GPL thingy) and said that IBM have not directed Red Hat in any way shape or form, they exist as a independent brand under IBM and so far IBM have left them alone.
heidi.wenger 9 Jul 2023
Red Hat is now owned by IBM which once aided in committing holocaust. Why does IBM get away with this to modern day? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust

To this and every other "IBM IS BEHIND THIS!!!" posts above I just want to point out that Red Hat representatives have come forward (they did this with the recent GPL thingy) and said that IBM have not directed Red Hat in any way shape or form, they exist as a independent brand under IBM and so far IBM have left them alone.

That may be, or it may not be that IBM have not adviced Red Hat "in any way shape or form". One thing is clear: Red Hat's ways and behavior has changed drastically in just few months. If IBM is not behind this, the situation could be considered even worse then. Red Hat was one of the bastions of freedom.
While you're here, please consider supporting GamingOnLinux on:

Reward Tiers: Patreon. Plain Donations: PayPal.

This ensures all of our main content remains totally free for everyone! Patreon supporters can also remove all adverts and sponsors! Supporting us helps bring good, fresh content. Without your continued support, we simply could not continue!

You can find even more ways to support us on this dedicated page any time. If you already are, thank you!
The comments on this article are closed.