Skullgirls got review-bombed on Steam after some art changes

Quoting: elmapul

Quoting: Metallinatus

Quoting: elmapulnowadays companies are mora acountable when they censor stuff because we have internet and can get informed about it, but still, most people dont know about censorship that happened in the past, for example i went to one of the biggest anime conventions from Brasil called "Anime Friends" , there was going to happen an show from the artist "Rica Matusmoto" who many openings, endings from pokemon and other animes, and dub the main character satoshi (ash), there were people there cosplaying pokemon characters... you probably would guess that those people who went to the event knew her right? or knew about the censorship that hapened in this anime, the soundtrack replacement etc right? nope, most didnt, to this day.

*Sigh* it had to be a Brazilian...

A few season 1 episodes got censored here, and that is a popular bit of anime/Pokémon trivia on the internet, so it's silly to think that your average young anime fan doesn't know about it. But you think they don't know about it just because they don't know about the singer of endings that only aired in Japan? Dude.

And to make it worse you are comparing that to censorship? You really need to pick up a dictionary, dude. The Pokémon that aired here is (or was? I don't watch it anymore) the 4Kids version. They censored a bunch of crap in every anime you could imagine, everybody knows that, but replacing the Japanese themes with localized ones is definitely not censorship.

i count as censorship, they didnt believed the original songs would make an success and didnt give it a chance to show its potential.
but regardless, that was not the only change they made.
for example, in they cut "violence" when kasumi (mist) slaps the main character, among other things, replaced all the dialouges from the first movie and many dialougues in other episodes, censored an pen because it was an real product among other things.
i wont list all the changes, there is the webpage dogasu for that, take a look at the kangaskhan episode for example.

what is censorship in your opinion? censoring political opinion?

Everything else you mentioned can be censorship, 4Kids was trigger happy on censorship, everyone knows it, but the opening and ending themes? Is it also censorship when Disney localize the songs in their movies for international release?

Quoting: Metallinatus

Quoting: elmapul

Quoting: Metallinatus

Quoting: elmapulnowadays companies are mora acountable when they censor stuff because we have internet and can get informed about it, but still, most people dont know about censorship that happened in the past, for example i went to one of the biggest anime conventions from Brasil called "Anime Friends" , there was going to happen an show from the artist "Rica Matusmoto" who many openings, endings from pokemon and other animes, and dub the main character satoshi (ash), there were people there cosplaying pokemon characters... you probably would guess that those people who went to the event knew her right? or knew about the censorship that hapened in this anime, the soundtrack replacement etc right? nope, most didnt, to this day.

*Sigh* it had to be a Brazilian...

A few season 1 episodes got censored here, and that is a popular bit of anime/Pokémon trivia on the internet, so it's silly to think that your average young anime fan doesn't know about it. But you think they don't know about it just because they don't know about the singer of endings that only aired in Japan? Dude.

And to make it worse you are comparing that to censorship? You really need to pick up a dictionary, dude. The Pokémon that aired here is (or was? I don't watch it anymore) the 4Kids version. They censored a bunch of crap in every anime you could imagine, everybody knows that, but replacing the Japanese themes with localized ones is definitely not censorship.

i count as censorship, they didnt believed the original songs would make an success and didnt give it a chance to show its potential.
but regardless, that was not the only change they made.
for example, in they cut "violence" when kasumi (mist) slaps the main character, among other things, replaced all the dialouges from the first movie and many dialougues in other episodes, censored an pen because it was an real product among other things.
i wont list all the changes, there is the webpage dogasu for that, take a look at the kangaskhan episode for example.

what is censorship in your opinion? censoring political opinion?

Everything else you mentioned can be censorship, 4Kids was trigger happy on censorship, everyone knows it, but the opening and ending themes? Is it also censorship when Disney localize the songs in their movies for international release?

if they do an proper translation? no.
if they replace the lyrics or the music with something else? yes.

Quoting: elmapul

Quoting: Metallinatus

Quoting: elmapul

Quoting: Metallinatus

Quoting: elmapulnowadays companies are mora acountable when they censor stuff because we have internet and can get informed about it, but still, most people dont know about censorship that happened in the past, for example i went to one of the biggest anime conventions from Brasil called "Anime Friends" , there was going to happen an show from the artist "Rica Matusmoto" who many openings, endings from pokemon and other animes, and dub the main character satoshi (ash), there were people there cosplaying pokemon characters... you probably would guess that those people who went to the event knew her right? or knew about the censorship that hapened in this anime, the soundtrack replacement etc right? nope, most didnt, to this day.

*Sigh* it had to be a Brazilian...

A few season 1 episodes got censored here, and that is a popular bit of anime/Pokémon trivia on the internet, so it's silly to think that your average young anime fan doesn't know about it. But you think they don't know about it just because they don't know about the singer of endings that only aired in Japan? Dude.

And to make it worse you are comparing that to censorship? You really need to pick up a dictionary, dude. The Pokémon that aired here is (or was? I don't watch it anymore) the 4Kids version. They censored a bunch of crap in every anime you could imagine, everybody knows that, but replacing the Japanese themes with localized ones is definitely not censorship.

i count as censorship, they didnt believed the original songs would make an success and didnt give it a chance to show its potential.
but regardless, that was not the only change they made.
for example, in they cut "violence" when kasumi (mist) slaps the main character, among other things, replaced all the dialouges from the first movie and many dialougues in other episodes, censored an pen because it was an real product among other things.
i wont list all the changes, there is the webpage dogasu for that, take a look at the kangaskhan episode for example.

what is censorship in your opinion? censoring political opinion?

Everything else you mentioned can be censorship, 4Kids was trigger happy on censorship, everyone knows it, but the opening and ending themes? Is it also censorship when Disney localize the songs in their movies for international release?

if they do an proper translation? no.
if they replace the lyrics or the music with something else? yes.

Replacing something with something else ≠ censorship.

And even if they kept the lyrics the exact same, the singer would still be different, because it's not a matter of lyrics, but a matter of having a song in the country's language.

Quoting: MetallinatusReplacing something with something else ≠ censorship.

And even if they kept the lyrics the exact same, the singer would still be different, because it's not a matter of lyrics, but a matter of having a song in the country's language.

again, im not against translation.
but changing the musis as well?

as for "not censorship" back in the days many businessmen didnt believed that japanese shows could make an sucess in the US without changing a lot of things, that is why they made power rangers for example, instead of showing the original shows as they were.
if you cant broadcast your show as is without any modification that dont count as censorship?

Quoting: elmapul

Quoting: MetallinatusReplacing something with something else ≠ censorship.

And even if they kept the lyrics the exact same, the singer would still be different, because it's not a matter of lyrics, but a matter of having a song in the country's language.

again, im not against translation.
but changing the musis as well?

as for "not censorship" back in the days many businessmen didnt believed that japanese shows could make an sucess in the US without changing a lot of things, that is why they made power rangers for example, instead of showing the original shows as they were.
if you cant broadcast your show as is without any modification that dont count as censorship?

They can, they chose not to because they realized their core audience in the west aren't japanese speaking people. And even dubbing a show is modification, so by your definition, if 4Kids decided to air Pokémon in English because 99% of viewers wouldn't understand anything in japanese, that's censorship too. Even if it's an exact translation, it's a modification they had to do for the product to sell.

We are running in circles with this discussion.

Quoting: MetallinatusWe are running in circles with this discussion.

that is stupid, of course translations arent changing, and while dubing change how the anime "feel" it still wouldnt count as censorship, we cant have an 1:1 experience, if the new audience have to read subtitles then they will have a different experience and that is specially bad for kids who are learning how to read (or dont know) if it remain unstranslated it still an different experience because you have no idea what they are saying, if its dubbed then the different voices, voice acting and sound of sylabes is different.

yet, i dont count any of those as "censoring" and i dont think anyone would.
the best experience for people is the original, followed by subs if they can read and then dubs, but even then im not saying im against the pratice of dubing and some people prefer the dubbed version.

the issue is when they completely change what the character said, i dont pay cable for that.

Quoting: elmapulthat is stupid

That's how I few about labeling different openings/endings as censorship.

Quoting: elmapul

Quoting: MetallinatusReplacing something with something else ≠ censorship.

And even if they kept the lyrics the exact same, the singer would still be different, because it's not a matter of lyrics, but a matter of having a song in the country's language.

again, im not against translation.
but changing the musis as well?

as for "not censorship" back in the days many businessmen didnt believed that japanese shows could make an sucess in the US without changing a lot of things, that is why they made power rangers for example, instead of showing the original shows as they were.
if you cant broadcast your show as is without any modification that dont count as censorship?

Here's the thing: "Censorship" does have a meaning in English. And it's a meaning that carries a powerful political charge. It's about authorities eliminating people's freedom of expression, or forcing people not to tell the truth.
And, certain segments of the right wing use the word "censorship" for other things, to imply that there is some kind of shadowy liberal "authority" forcing people to, um, behave decently I guess? This allows them to basically claim that certain forms of decent behaviour are in fact tyranny.

So for those of us familiar with the usage of the word "censorship" in both its normal form (like, the Soviet Union practised censorship etc) and its frequent current use by the alt-right, when we see someone use the word "censorship" to describe the acts of executives making decisions about what will sell, it doesn't match the actual definition or usage of the word, and when it comes to the Skull Girls thing really seems to match up with the alt-right usage. So whatever you think you're communicating, by incorrectly using the word "censorship" you are delivering a political message implying outside control by nefarious "liberals". So I think you might want to find a different word.

(There's a big irony in this alt-right position, in that they're describing community enforcement of moral standards as tyranny in some contexts, but are TOTALLY INTO IT in others. So, community enforcement of codes against racism == tyranny, but community enforcement of codes against premarital sex, among other things == good and necessary, and for that matter community enforcement of codes against pedophilia == good when they do it, bad when liberals do it)

Quoting: Mountain ManWe're literally discussing a company that is facing extreme backlash after alienating their core audience with ill advised changes in an attempt to be more "socially aware". But, no, you go ahead and tell yourself that I've somehow been proven wrong.

Who is the "core audience" of Skullgirls? This is what the assertions are always saying. What does the "core audience" value that has been taken out? The racist allegories? The underage pantyshots? Who is this core audience? Coomers and nazis? (A venn diagram that is usually just a circle.)

How about fighting game players, competitors, spectators, tournament organizers and sponsors? This is the *real* core audience of Skullgirls. The people who put in the time to practice and hone it, the people who travel to compete, give it its time in the spotlight, and show the cool stuff you can do it. But if you put Skullgirls on stream and it shows Parasoul summoning an army of red armbands to assail 16-year-old Filia while her panties are on display, well-adjusted people start to think, "damn, I'm not sure if I want anyone to see me playing this". There are so many games like that. There's a good reason those games aren't popular, and a good reason the popular games aren't like that. A lot of good reasons. A lot of it has to do with the audience and the community. They drive regular people away!

Quoting: F.UltraThe SICs always makes this claim but is there any evidence what so ever that the devs made this change for "another audience" and not just because they themselves begun to feel uncomfortable with the original design?

If they themselves began to feel uncomfortable with the original design, that is reason enough. People change. Your sensibilities change. You expand your horizons, you listen to more perspectives, you start to understand how something you didn't put any thought into when you originally made it could be harmful to someone, and then you wish it was different. So they made it different.

The only thing that I disagree with is permanently modifying the art compendium, and that is pretty much only on principle. I think that it would have been a stronger message to archive all the old art and old designs with a note explaining the rationale for the changes. But I also understand that they might have been so uncomfortable with the art that they made before, for a wide variety of possible reasons, that they just wanted to be rid of their association with it. With the ideas behind it... and also with the people who most strongly cling to those ideas.

You see so many people frothing about the changes to Skullgirls. Eventually, you're all eventually just going to shut up and move on. Once you do move on, you will no longer be around to drive away regular folks, which means Skullgirls will be more palatable. Ticking you all off is a *feature*, not a bug.

The are many forms of censorship, when most people think of censorship they imagine state-censorship, but that is only one form.

When a media company translates a program into another language, say French, and then shows it to the French populace because the company would believe the majority of the French would not accept the original English version, then that is indeed a form of censorship.

Nowadays thanks to the internet, you can actually watch nearly all translations and it is left to the individual to decide, so it's no longer censorship so long as the option is available. But, (and I might be showing my age here) when you could only watch what the TV broadcaster gave you, it was very much censorship.

Interestingly enough the edits to the original Star Wars (4, 5, 6 re-edited editions) aren't censorship, as that wasn't done to appease any audience, quite the opposite in fact.

Censorship is not inherently bad, but it can be used for bad very easily.