Linux Mint Debian Edition 6 'Faye' enters Beta

Quoting: slaapliedjeHonest question; what do they do different that would make me want to switch to Mint DE over just Debian? Debian has a much more flexible installer (still one of the best if you need software raid, or anything funky).

Probably nothing that would make you want to switch to Mint DE (or any other kind of Mint). But I don't want flexible or anything funky, I want simple no muss no fuss. And I want all my media to already work, and all that kind of stuff.
As a side note, I don't actually use Cinnamon. I use Mate.


Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 13 September 2023 at 11:20 pm UTC

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: slaapliedjeHonest question; what do they do different that would make me want to switch to Mint DE over just Debian? Debian has a much more flexible installer (still one of the best if you need software raid, or anything funky).

Probably nothing that would make you want to switch to Mint DE (or any other kind of Mint). But I don't want flexible or anything funky, I want simple no muss no fuss. And I want all my media to already work, and all that kind of stuff.
As a side note, I don't actually use Cinnamon. I use Mate.

Ha, was going to set them up side by side. (LMDE vs Debian MATE Live)
LMDE seems to only have a Cinnamon ISO?

The Debian 12 LiveCD with MATE failed to install with UEFI set for Gnome-boxes.

But installer-wise, Mint has more options for partitioning (for encyrpting home). but are otherwise pretty much the same. (speaking of Calamares, you can also pick the standard Debian installer, which is a 'no fuss, no muss, you can also just select 'set up the drive for me.')


Last edited by slaapliedje on 14 September 2023 at 4:10 am UTC

Just the fact, on the debian link you provide, that we fall on a website comin' straight from the last millennium, where you have to find the iso you need on an unordered list of tons of files DEMONSTRATES that out of guys that have plenty of times and competences to install their PC, nobody will use it.

Quoting: slaapliedjeHonest question; what do they do different that would make me want to switch to Mint DE over just Debian?

This is not complete and just from memory:
- non-libre video codecs
- non libre wifi drivers (that's still not out of the box/with a checkbox in Debian right? One has to know the package to install IIUC)
- a software center by default, (type VLC in synaptic and show the results to a non IT person)
- flatpak setup by default. Important for non IT people to not end up with a years old Minetest of 0ad and not being able to play with friends.
- update notifications, important to have any hope a system is updated by non IT people
- major upgrades possible with a GUI tool (WIP, that's new, not prompted by default, one has to install and run it)
- things to check on Debian: laptop power management, MTP support, simple-scan installed by default
- anything else someone here know about?

Cinnamon is decent looking and complete functionally by default but just search for screenshots for Debian and Mint with Mate and XFCE and the difference will be striking. Root of the issue is Mate and XFCE not having different presets whose use is recommend for general public distros. A user-friendliness barrier for Debian, Fedora, openSUSE.

Overall a lot of stuff that will make a big difference for random people on the street. A lot of people coming at install parties have no particular IT knowledge and interest in tech, but a political one for libre software. (the rest is people wanting free IT help :-( and the remainder are some techies ^o^)

Quoting: tuxayo- non-libre video codecs
- non libre wifi drivers (that's still not out of the box/with a checkbox in Debian right? One has to know the package to install IIUC)
- a software center by default, (type VLC in synaptic and show the results to a non IT person)
- flatpak setup by default. Important for non IT people to not end up with a years old Minetest of 0ad and not being able to play with friends.
- update notifications, important to have any hope a system is updated by non IT people
- major upgrades possible with a GUI tool (WIP, that's new, not prompted by default, one has to install and run it)
- things to check on Debian: laptop power management, MTP support, simple-scan installed by default
- anything else someone here know about?

With the exception of a GUI tool for major updates and the need for manual install of out-of-tree wifi drivers, Debian, at least on the GNOME side, comes with all of these as far as I can tell.

In fact, things like full support for media codecs have been shipping by default in Debian for years and years.

Anyhow, most of us are just curious, not trying to question or attack Mint . I checked the website but besides shipping a more recent version of Cinnamon and screenshots of the upgrade GUI there's very little information about what makes Mint different from Debian (or previously Ubuntu).

Quoting: tuxayo

Quoting: slaapliedjeHonest question; what do they do different that would make me want to switch to Mint DE over just Debian?

This is not complete and just from memory:
- non-libre video codecs
- non libre wifi drivers (that's still not out of the box/with a checkbox in Debian right? One has to know the package to install IIUC)
- a software center by default, (type VLC in synaptic and show the results to a non IT person)
- flatpak setup by default. Important for non IT people to not end up with a years old Minetest of 0ad and not being able to play with friends.
- update notifications, important to have any hope a system is updated by non IT people
- major upgrades possible with a GUI tool (WIP, that's new, not prompted by default, one has to install and run it)
- things to check on Debian: laptop power management, MTP support, simple-scan installed by default
- anything else someone here know about?

Cinnamon is decent looking and complete functionally by default but just search for screenshots for Debian and Mint with Mate and XFCE and the difference will be striking. Root of the issue is Mate and XFCE not having different presets whose use is recommend for general public distros. A user-friendliness barrier for Debian, Fedora, openSUSE.

Overall a lot of stuff that will make a big difference for random people on the street. A lot of people coming at install parties have no particular IT knowledge and interest in tech, but a political one for libre software. (the rest is people wanting free IT help :-( and the remainder are some techies ^o^)

Good post.

Mint team fix paper cuts where it counts which is in the immediate end user experience by providing useful defaults, applications and update mechanisms.

Im on Arch on one of my machines, using EndevourOS which is a heavily promoted Arch distros by the community. And it does not have sane defaults and chunks of obvious settings are missing by default. I like it still because im a tweaker but at times it has not been fun. It's just an arch install after all and that's the difference between a manicured distro like Mint and a utilitarian one like Arch.

One big point of criticism i have for Mint is that their forums still look out of date and aren't anywhere near as helpful as the Big Arch forums. With the amount of monthly donations they receive it wouldn't take long to change this to a more modern system.

Quoting: whizseAnyhow, most of us are just curious, not trying to question or attack Mint .

Could have fooled me, to be honest.

Quoting: whizseI checked the website but besides shipping a more recent version of Cinnamon and screenshots of the upgrade GUI there's very little information about what makes Mint different from Debian (or previously Ubuntu).

Well, I couldn't really tell you. But I will say this . . . a year or two ago when I got a new desktop computer I thought, "I'll just try Ubuntu on it. I mean, it's supposed to be user friendly too and all, why would there really be much difference between Ubuntu and Mint?"
And . . . there kind of was. It was just subtly more annoying, for me. I can't put my finger on it exactly, but I found myself with little things bugging me on Ubuntu, just occasional grumbles and curses and in-the-way feelings so that after a while I said screw this, wiped it and put in Mint. It wasn't nearly as bad as Windows, mind you.


Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 14 September 2023 at 5:22 pm UTC

Quoting: tuxayo

Quoting: slaapliedjeHonest question; what do they do different that would make me want to switch to Mint DE over just Debian?

This is not complete and just from memory:
- non-libre video codecs
- non libre wifi drivers (that's still not out of the box/with a checkbox in Debian right? One has to know the package to install IIUC)
- a software center by default, (type VLC in synaptic and show the results to a non IT person)
- flatpak setup by default. Important for non IT people to not end up with a years old Minetest of 0ad and not being able to play with friends.
- update notifications, important to have any hope a system is updated by non IT people
- major upgrades possible with a GUI tool (WIP, that's new, not prompted by default, one has to install and run it)
- things to check on Debian: laptop power management, MTP support, simple-scan installed by default
- anything else someone here know about?

Cinnamon is decent looking and complete functionally by default but just search for screenshots for Debian and Mint with Mate and XFCE and the difference will be striking. Root of the issue is Mate and XFCE not having different presets whose use is recommend for general public distros. A user-friendliness barrier for Debian, Fedora, openSUSE.

Overall a lot of stuff that will make a big difference for random people on the street. A lot of people coming at install parties have no particular IT knowledge and interest in tech, but a political one for libre software. (the rest is people wanting free IT help :-( and the remainder are some techies ^o^)

- For codecs... I'm not sure, I haven't ran into codec issues in a LONG time...
- Wifi firmware is fixed with Bookworm / 12
- It DOES have a software center by default (has had one for the last few releases. Gnome-Software and Discover are both there for Gnome / KDE
- Flatpak is currently like two commands to enable
- update notifications are there. Not sure if they are out of the box (I just update whenever I use my computer, though I also am using Debian Sid). Or you can just enable the unattended ones.
- I think the software center might prompt for a dist-upgrade? I usually upgrade shortly before it's available though (that counts for any distro really).
- For this point; laptop management, yup. MTP support, yup. Pretty sure simple-scan is also installed by default.

Debian doesn't muck with the DEs and gives you what the DE developers give you. This is a good thing in my mind, but may not be the best for other's opinions. For example, I can't stand the Ubuntu bastardization of Gnome, and much prefer a default install that I can then pick and choose the extensions I want (like I add wobbly windows, move the dock to the left, and that's about it. I want the 'dash' to be hidden.)

I'm still not sure what the difference is anymore between Mint / Cinnamon. At one point they were both supposed to be Gnome-2 like, and one was GTK2 based and one was GTK3 based.. they're now both GTK3/4(?) based. The defaults seem to be a bit different (the two panel vs one). But you can also still use the Gnome flashback if you want the old gnome 2 style setup... But hey, more choices is good anyhow.

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: whizseAnyhow, most of us are just curious, not trying to question or attack Mint .

Could have fooled me, to be honest.

That does make feel bad and I want apologize. I'm not sure what it was in my reply that came of as antagonistic?

Turns out the Wikipedia entry for Mint is a bit more descriptive. It specifically list the MintTools suite developed specifically for the distro,