We were so close to seeing another gaming handheld ship with Linux out of the box that isn't the Steam Deck, but it seems AYANEO with the AYANEO NEXT LITE weren't convinced enough and so they've changed their minds.
Originally announced as shipping with SteamOS, but then clarified later it would be HoloISO, which is a Linux distribution that's pretty close to SteamOS. AYANEO aren't entirely dropping it though, as they will still be offering HoloISO Linux (it's like SteamOS), but the device will now instead ship with Windows 11.
Writing on X (Twitter) they put out a statement and here's the relevent bit copied out of the image:
Following the announcement of the operating system for AYANEO NEXT LITE, players and friends have shown great interest and engaged in lively discussions. Some players provided feedback indicating the continued preference for a Windows operating system. "Real Gamers, Know Gamers," and in response to this valuable feedback, we are pleased to announce that AYANEO NEXT LITE will come pre-installed with the genuine Windows 11 64-bit Home Edition operating system. Of course, players can still choose to install HoloISO on their own. AYANEO's official website provides HoloISO system images that are officially adapted and compatible for players to download and experience. The streamlined and efficient HololSO system aims to offer players a more convenient game management, smooth and stable gaming performance, lower overall power consumption, and native compatibility with both controllers and touchscreen operations. This approach aligns with the gaming habits of handheld device users, providing players with a richer selection of operating systems.
Real Gamers, Know Gamers huh? That's…a peculiar thing to say here.
This is a shame to see, as this could have helped to continue the Linux push for gaming. At least they will still be offering it up for download, but as we long-timers know, most people don't generally change their operating system on any device.
Hopefully sometime soon Valve will finally properly release SteamOS 3 for other hardware vendors, as SteamOS carries more weight to it than community-rebuilds like HoloISO. A lot of it is in the name, as players and hardware vendors would likely be more confident with SteamOS directly.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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I thought they got handed a big bag of $ from microsoft, but their praise for Linux ("a more convenient game management, smooth and stable gaming performance, lower overall power consumption") makes me doubt that. They wouldn't be allowed to crap over windows if that was the case.
It feels like they are scared it would flop if users keep asking for windows and they don't deliver, so they do it even though they think it's wasting their device?
I certainly hope they realize no one is going to risk changing the OS on their word that it's better, they'd just return it because it performs bad. They should seriously consider selling the device with either OS, and when word gets out that the Linux one works fine and the windows one doesn't, people will start making the right choice.
It feels like they are scared it would flop if users keep asking for windows and they don't deliver, so they do it even though they think it's wasting their device?
I certainly hope they realize no one is going to risk changing the OS on their word that it's better, they'd just return it because it performs bad. They should seriously consider selling the device with either OS, and when word gets out that the Linux one works fine and the windows one doesn't, people will start making the right choice.
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Mountain Man Jan 25
...it seems AYANEO with the AYANEO NEXT LITE weren't convinced enough and so they've changed their minds.I wonder how much Microsoft paid them?
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It feels like they are scared it would flop if users keep asking for windows and they don't deliver, so they do it even though they think it's wasting their device?
It's not like there's a shortage of handheld PCs that run Windows - even from the same company - so people could just buy one of those instead if they're desperate for Windows, while this device could still get the benefits of using Linux. If they did just get steamrolled by astroturf without getting anything in return then they made quite a serious mistake.
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Aya are a Windows OEM. So they have almost certainly signed an agreement with Microsoft that includes language that in return for lower prices for Windows, they agree to (among other things) obtain a license for Microsoft's patents on every Windows-compatible system they sell. Shipping a licensed Windows install on the device grants the license, anything else pre-installed requires an additional fee paid to Microsoft to license their patents.
They probably thought that if SteamOS (or their own Linux distribution) didn't violate Microsoft's patents they wouldn't have to pay, and Microsoft reminded them that doesn't get them out of the terms of the agreement because those devices can still run Windows so it wouldn't matter.
The only way out of it is to not be a Windows OEM at all, use some kind of Windows-incompatible boot process, or fight Microsoft in court over the terms of a contract they entered into, all of which Aya aren't willing to do.
They probably thought that if SteamOS (or their own Linux distribution) didn't violate Microsoft's patents they wouldn't have to pay, and Microsoft reminded them that doesn't get them out of the terms of the agreement because those devices can still run Windows so it wouldn't matter.
The only way out of it is to not be a Windows OEM at all, use some kind of Windows-incompatible boot process, or fight Microsoft in court over the terms of a contract they entered into, all of which Aya aren't willing to do.
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but it seems AYANEO with the AYANEO NEXT LITE weren't convinced enough and so they've changed their minds
Shocker.....
Like nobody knows what's gone off behind the scenes there
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What a cop out. This isn't about gamers. They either buckled to MS pressure, or loud-voiced social pressure.
I have no respect left in the tank for this outfit. Long live Stream Deck, basically.
I have no respect left in the tank for this outfit. Long live Stream Deck, basically.
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Of course another thing that they're going to have to consider is whether they're going to have to increase the price of their SteamOS HoloIso Windows 11 device to account for the licensing fee or whether whatever deal they managed to get for folding to Microsoft pressure will let them keep the same price point.
"Worse than a Steam Deck for more money than a Steam Deck" isn't a great place to position your product.
"Worse than a Steam Deck for more money than a Steam Deck" isn't a great place to position your product.
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Some players provided feedback indicating the continued preference for a Windows operating system.Market-players, with a preference for splashing lots of cash, I'm sure.
What a cop out. This isn't about gamers. They either buckled to MS pressure, or loud-voiced social pressure.Likewise. I'm as disappointed about this as I was when GPD had their hissyfit about the Steam Deck (and in GPD's case, I actually own some of their hardware - it's nice and I would've liked to see them embrace something that fit it well).
I have no respect left in the tank for this outfit. Long live Stream Deck, basically.
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Honestly, it's not worth getting involved with most of the chinese handhelds. Ayaneo especially have terrible customer service.
So, Asus and Lenovo are both Chinese as well. Is their customer service also bad, or is it only worth mentioning it's Chinese if it's bad?
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So, Asus and Lenovo are both Chinese as well. Is their customer service also bad, or is it only worth mentioning it's Chinese if it's bad?
Right, we should use something like "small handheld manufacturers/companies" when referring to the likes of AYANEO, OneXPlayer, etc.
Let's not foster the subtly racist idea that "Chinese made/managed = inherently bad".
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ElectricPrism Jan 25
AYANEO NEXT LITE no longer ships with SteamOS-like HoloISO Linux - Windows 11 instead
Alternate title: People pretending to be communist-socialists ship device with fascist operating system instead of you know... a more communal, globally developed one XD.
I see this kind of last minuet reverse-uno all the time. Makes you wonder what powers that be do behind closed doors to make sure the future stays on track for the authoritarian-fascists to win.
Whatever small interest I had in their devices is now null, I'll keep my eyes open for more worthy selections in the future, preferably one that has CoreBoot.
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I remember, what people from Poland do with Facebook plans to implement XMPP. They hound plans and Facebook on official forums. They do not know, how world working. They claims Facebook should implement support for Gadu-Gadu, closed source competitor of Facebook/XMPP. If Gadu-Gadu agree, that would be kill for it. People does not understood Gadu-Gadu protocols are closed source (so agreement, etc. needed) and XMPP are free. It brinks me think about discussion with Windows users on forums. Mental slayers of closed source/Microsoft/etc. They known nothing about software or how world works, but they pretend to be specialist for many different kind of knowledge, like politics, IT, psychologist, economics, etc. I think, that many Windows users forces producer of this device to deliver it with Windows. Simple: by scamming.
that reminds me of a few things, discussions i had with people who couldnt understand how microsoft was locking then and that its microsoft that should implement open standards not the open source tools that should do reverse enginering to support an proprietary standard or protocol...
as well as the people who claimed that consoles (including steam machines) were just pcs with aditional restrictions put into then so the companys can make a profit by seling those features separatedly or stuff like that.
they cant understand that features have a cost to develop, the reason why n64 didnt came with an cd player was not "greeedy" from nintendo...
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TruckStopSantaClaus Jan 25
And all my doubts are proven valid.
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Avehicle7887 Jan 25
"Real Gamers, Know Gamers,"
I guess being a Linux gamer doesn't make me a real gamer. With that said, I don't own any modern gaming handhelds but if I had to choose one, it definitely won't be an Ayaneo.
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ElectricPrism Jan 25
Honestly, it's not worth getting involved with most of the chinese handhelds. Ayaneo especially have terrible customer service.
So, Asus and Lenovo are both Chinese as well. Is their customer service also bad, or is it only worth mentioning it's Chinese if it's bad?
AFAIK ASUS, MSI, (NVIDIA to a large degree) and a bunch of others are Taiwanese, which technically is Old China pre-1,900s pre-cultural-revolution (Also known as the destruction of Thousands of Years of Chinese History, Artifacts, and Culture).
Lenovo is quite literally made in Beijing, the capitol. (This is easy to check on Wikipedia)
One (Lenovo) is under the National Security Law & National Intelligence Law requiring cooperation with government espionage (according to US officials), or prison, and the other (ASUS-Taiwan) is not AFAIK.
Source: When US officials were pressed in early 2019 to provide evidence that Huawei, the Chinese telecommunications giant, had facilitated spying on the US and its allies [...] [ The director referenced in Chinese Law ] the introduction of a new national intelligence law in 2017 [...] The law states that “any organisation and citizen” shall “support and cooperate in national intelligence work”
- The director of the US National Counterintelligence and Security Center
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/25/china-business-xi-jinping-communist-party-state-private-enterprise-huawei
Anyways, those are the facts as I know them.
China is a large geographic region that has something like 47+ different ethnic cultures, similar to how North America and South America have many peoples -- Mongolian, Cantonese (Southern Coastal), Han Chinese, Taiwanese (The Islanders), Technically debatable the Tibetans, now Hong Kong (The British Colony under the Queen), and other areas.
Personally, I buy Taiwanese products -- like the Ergodox Ez, ASUS products, BV-Tech has some network gear with US Military approved certification.
Could the sub-components come from the mainland, or could there be concerns of the mainland effecting Taiwan companies? Sure -- I woulds say the same is possible for Samsung (South Korea) and LG (South Korea) the same as any other tech from the region, even Japan does manufacturing in mainland China for some things.
So in conclusion YMMV and the choice is ultimately yours who you give your hard earned money to. Do your research, and read, and remember if you reward bad behavior the future will suck. It's up to each of us to decide for ourselves.
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Aya are a Windows OEM. So they have almost certainly signed an agreement with Microsoft that includes language that in return for lower prices for Windows, they agree to (among other things) obtain a license for Microsoft's patents on every Windows-compatible system they sell. Shipping a licensed Windows install on the device grants the license, anything else pre-installed requires an additional fee paid to Microsoft to license their patents.I suppose you could spin off a subsidiary to do it. The subsidiary could contract out the manufacturing part to . . . you, what a co-incidence.
They probably thought that if SteamOS (or their own Linux distribution) didn't violate Microsoft's patents they wouldn't have to pay, and Microsoft reminded them that doesn't get them out of the terms of the agreement because those devices can still run Windows so it wouldn't matter.
The only way out of it is to not be a Windows OEM at all, use some kind of Windows-incompatible boot process, or fight Microsoft in court over the terms of a contract they entered into, all of which Aya aren't willing to do.
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I suppose you could spin off a subsidiary to do it. The subsidiary could contract out the manufacturing part to . . . you, what a co-incidence.
Considering how obvious a legal gimmick like that would be, I strongly suspect there is language in the contract to cover that kind of business scheme. Even if there wasn't I doubt it would pass the smell test in front of a court covering contract law, even in China. That would seem like obvious bad faith when agreeing to a contract.
Now if they were legitimately simply selling hardware production to a third-party, where those systems would use the third-parties branding, and not be sold directly by Aya, that would likely be different.
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, I only play serious rules oriented games with people who are.
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Y'know, now that I've thought about it some more, they leveraged the likes of GOL to get free promotion for something that they might never have intended to launch in the way it was first promoted. You don't open pre-orders and then suddenly change the spec unplanned. That's really not cool.
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OOf... I guess the (social) media attraction the announcement of not shipping with Windows got, also attracted Microsoft. And they've spend some $ so they ship with Windows instead. They could have shipped it with HoloISO and offer Windows drivers like Valve does with the Deck. As they do it now the other way round, I guess some money got involved.
Pretty sure that's the case, and will be hard if not impossible to compete against a company that practically has infinite money.
Also paid voices, it's not a secret that there are lots of suspicious accounts on X which act like M$/XBOX is a cult or something, even a former WoW designer have hinted to this, a "legion" which does the dirty job.
There could be also a bit of involvement by the community, maybe because anti-cheat titles and the f'ing gamepass (if you look closely, all Windows-based handhelds advertisement promote gamepass mainly)
All three of the factors point to the same thing: M$ active involvement, it's crazy.
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Could the sub-components come from the mainland, or could there be concerns of the mainland effecting Taiwan companies? Sure -- I woulds say the same is possible for Samsung (South Korea) and LG (South Korea) the same as any other tech from the region, even Japan does manufacturing in mainland China for some things.
The same is possible for most "American" companies, like Apple.
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