Never Grave from the Palworld developer looks a lot like Hollow Knight

Is this what the gaming industry has become? 'Developers' rip off well known projects, rename, repackage and push out the door in a not-terrible-asset-flip way, trying to be clever enough to dodge the inevitable lawsuits and DMCA takedowns.

We'll need a new name for it...
Clone-likes.

This developer specializes in "looks a lot like". Their previous effort, Craftworld, was marketed using "looks a lot like" Breath of the Wild, even though the mechanics were very different, and we all know about Palworld. They've learned that "looks a lot like" sells, so they've been leaning into it.

Expect more, for sure.

They're not the first though, remember Crowsworn.


Last edited by Liam Dawe on 29 January 2024 at 2:17 pm UTC

So what... an artstyle can only be used in one game now before people scream "clone!"?

Want me to tell you about Doom "clones"?

I don't really see a lot of the Hollow Knight specific art style in this game. This looks more like a traditional cartoony style. And while some of the mechanics look similar to Hollow Knight, the gameplay as a whole looks quite different. I mean, ladders? :) Crownsworn definitely looks closer.

So inspiration is a crime now, so maybe we should make our own unique food recipes, our own unique clothing style, or our own unique musical genre.

Hollow Knight had a lot of qualities, but the bland monochromatic look of the environment was not one of its strengths... Its far from the grandiose colorful areas of other metroid style games.

Quoting: jams3223So inspiration is a crime now, so maybe we should make our own unique food recipes, our own unique clothing style, or our own unique musical genre.

According to corporations and fan(atics) of specific (media) products - YES

It is not criminal offense, but this feels too much on nose. Yes, there are tons of clones of very popular games. But this developer has very clearly stated that it's goal is to profit from estabilished formulas, and is very ignorant about effects overall. Yes, it is legal, but it is just not cool.
Fact that corporations try to do verified formulas is one thing, but openly stating that is your goal kinda invalidates me ever checking your games.

Quoting: EhvisI don't really see a lot of the Hollow Knight specific art style in this game. This looks more like a traditional cartoony style. And while some of the mechanics look similar to Hollow Knight, the gameplay as a whole looks quite different. I mean, ladders? :) Crownsworn definitely looks closer.

If you can't see some of the screenshots on their store page that look like a blatant rip off of Hollow Knight then you either have no idea how Hollow Knight looks or you didn't actually look at the images. The art style isn't exactly the same, it's a bit more cartoony, but some of the shots make the environment look like they literally copy pasted from HK.

Keep in mind, the developer posted these shots to sell the game. When a handful of those images they posted can raise questions like this it's enough to be suspicious at the very least.

Time has changed since some games created new genres. Doom-like? Quake-like? Metroidvania? I guess today they would be called "rip off" "scams" or whatever.


Last edited by DerpFox on 29 January 2024 at 6:00 pm UTC

I'm going to do a... what is it that kids today call it...? A hot take, here: This is what gaming used to be like, and I'm actually happy to see this sort of thing making a comeback to get genres evolving again and keep everyone on their toes. It's certainly better than the morass of grey-and-brown slop that's been the focus for the last couple of decades!

Some oldey-timey examples, since you know I love my pictorial references in cases like this;

















This is no different to indies creating games like Freedom Planet, Shovel Knight, Bombing Bastards, and other games inspired by existing properties.

What next, it's not ok to use the term "Metroidvania" anymore because Metroid belongs to Nintendo and Castlevania belongs to Konami?

While I can absolutely see the Hollow Knight influences (Queens Garden, Forgotten Crossroads, perhaps a bit of Royal Waterways/City of Tears?) in a few of the screenshots, the game overall seems to have it's own (in my opinion) very pretty looking art style.

Honestly feel like folks wouldn't have been as bothered about this, perhaps not even have noticed the announcement at all, had Palworld not suddenly hit such a wildly critical mass. So long as it isn't ripping assets straight out of Hollow Knight, I see no issue.

Quoting: PenglingWhat next, it's not ok to use the term "Metroidvania" anymore because Metroid belongs to Nintendo and Castlevania belongs to Konami?

So we need to call them "Ninamis"???......


Last edited by StoneColdSpider on 29 January 2024 at 9:10 pm UTC

Quoting: LacSlyer

Quoting: EhvisI don't really see a lot of the Hollow Knight specific art style in this game. This looks more like a traditional cartoony style. And while some of the mechanics look similar to Hollow Knight, the gameplay as a whole looks quite different. I mean, ladders? :) Crownsworn definitely looks closer.

If you can't see some of the screenshots on their store page that look like a blatant rip off of Hollow Knight then you either have no idea how Hollow Knight looks or you didn't actually look at the images. The art style isn't exactly the same, it's a bit more cartoony, but some of the shots make the environment look like they literally copy pasted from HK.

Keep in mind, the developer posted these shots to sell the game. When a handful of those images they posted can raise questions like this it's enough to be suspicious at the very least.

I think this is what people are missing here. This isn't about how the game actually plays. It's not about iteration on an existing set of ideas. It's about marketing, and using "looks a lot like" as a strategy, even though the game isn't like the thing it looks a lot like.

Craftopia didn't iterate on Breath of the Wild. Palworld doesn't really do much with Pokémon mechanics aside from capturing in the same way. And this seems to use none of the innovations Hollow Knight brought to the Metroidvania genre. But boy do they want people who know those games to look at screenshots and go "hey, that looks familiar!"

this game is pretty unique ngl... especially judging by the trailer so i really don't understand all the anger... especially if the game is ACTUALLY fun to play.

I can enjoy a modern game that pays homage for ancient games from 20, 30 years ago. You feel nostalgic and stuff. Hollow Knight was released too recently for someone to be "paying homage" too it. This is a blatantly ripoff and one of the motives I abandoned AAA gaming in the first place. I came to indies for their courage to innovate. I'm not gonna give money to devs that behave like big studios that are too scared to create something new, and decide to copy someone's home work.

Quoting: M@GOidI can enjoy a modern game that pays homage for ancient games from 20, 30 years ago. You feel nostalgic and stuff. Hollow Knight was released too recently for someone to be "paying homage" too it. This is a blatantly ripoff and one of the motives I abandoned AAA gaming in the first place. I came to indies for their courage to innovate. I'm not gonna give money to devs that behave like big studios that are too scared to create something new, and decide to copy someone's home work.

While I understand this sentiment, the gameplay for the Palworld dev's new Metroidvania is little to nothing like Hollow Knight aside from the Metroidvania aspects. Artstyles are NOT Copyrightable for a reason.

Additionally, the Palworld dev has specifically noted that he does NOT try to make original games. He takes ideas he likes and makes something new out of it. People like to whine about Palworld being Pokemon with guns, but it's more like a Survivalcraft game with Factorio, monster catching, and guns.

Quoting: Nezchan

Quoting: LacSlyer

Quoting: EhvisI don't really see a lot of the Hollow Knight specific art style in this game. This looks more like a traditional cartoony style. And while some of the mechanics look similar to Hollow Knight, the gameplay as a whole looks quite different. I mean, ladders? :) Crownsworn definitely looks closer.

If you can't see some of the screenshots on their store page that look like a blatant rip off of Hollow Knight then you either have no idea how Hollow Knight looks or you didn't actually look at the images. The art style isn't exactly the same, it's a bit more cartoony, but some of the shots make the environment look like they literally copy pasted from HK.

Keep in mind, the developer posted these shots to sell the game. When a handful of those images they posted can raise questions like this it's enough to be suspicious at the very least.

I think this is what people are missing here. This isn't about how the game actually plays. It's not about iteration on an existing set of ideas. It's about marketing, and using "looks a lot like" as a strategy, even though the game isn't like the thing it looks a lot like.

Craftopia didn't iterate on Breath of the Wild. Palworld doesn't really do much with Pokémon mechanics aside from capturing in the same way. And this seems to use none of the innovations Hollow Knight brought to the Metroidvania genre. But boy do they want people who know those games to look at screenshots and go "hey, that looks familiar!"

Which is something they have likely needed in the past. If you read the translated interview on the dev's site, you'll see that nearly every publisher he approached passed on the game because it didn't play it safe with a popular, trendy game format and genre. It doesn't have MTX, isn't a battle royale/FPS/Action RPG, so publishers passed. So, instead, they created their own marketing by using the art style to get ppl interested and in the door, then use the gameplay to try and get them hooked.

Even with the boatloads of money they've earned on Palworld, they are still nowhere near the resources that a AAA studio/publisher has available to spend on Engineers or Marketing (two of the most expensive parts of Tech/Gaming companies)

Quoting: M@GOidI can enjoy a modern game that pays homage for ancient games from 20, 30 years ago. You feel nostalgic and stuff. Hollow Knight was released too recently for someone to be "paying homage" too it.

Those ancient games themselves were all copying each other's homework too, though - it's what grows genres.

We used to have the phrase "If you like that, you'll like this too." for a reason, before it became taboo for reasons I've never understood.

Quoting: Viesta2015so i really don't understand all the anger...

It feels to me like some indies are allowed a free pass for "Sticking it to THE MAN!", but others aren't for some reason, even though they're doing exactly what this industry has always done.