The original SteamOS-like Linux distro HoloISO now dead, replaced with immutable version

Update: 30/01/24 - version 1.1 now released supports migrating. Annoyingly they're only posting such changes info in Telegram.


Last edited by Liam Dawe on 30 January 2024 at 9:59 am UTC

Do you have any sources on that? This is the first I've heard of it and don't want to support the project if that is the case.

The HoloISO devs are Russian. They mostly give updates on Telegram. See https://t.me/HoloISO/467. Additionally, see https://t.me/HoloISO/415 - and, look, I'm a proud BA enjoyer, but even I don't want that kind of memes in update & announcement communication channel.

The steamos solution to that is to use flatpaks, which is pretty much only for _released_ graphical software (and few cli tools, but no libraries). So steamos and immutable distros in general are for consuming, not producing. Which sucks because some people see the steam deck as a possible laptop/desktop replacement, but this immutable part forces you to throw the whole distro into the trash and install another distro instead.

Not really? I've been layering my stuff to the Bazzite image just fine (both directly to the image, and on top of the image with `rpm-ostree install`), and for everything else, I just use Nix Home-Manager, Distrobox, or Conty which allows me to still use whatever I want, however I want.

The only thing that's annoying to do is when you need something like kernel mods and dealing with stuff like DaVinci Resolve and VMware or GPU-Passthrough. It's doable, but I just don't want to read all that stuff, man.

Personally, I've been really loving it. Makes updating much easier - I don't even have to monitor it, I just let it run in the background. Sure, sometimes issues occurs, but I can just ignore it since if it didn't build it won't get shipped to me, until I have the time to look at it. I actually got an email about a build failing 3 days ago, ignored it, then finally read the log today, then fixed it. The log makes it clear and means I don't have to immediately attend to it since it was never shipped to me!


Last edited by fenglengshun on 30 January 2024 at 10:59 am UTC

Thanks for the recommendation, going to try it out

You can do it with an rpm-ostree rebase from a normal Fedora immutable install, if you want, but you can also make your own repo to get a personalized image which is pretty easy to do! I outright just layer in my own skel files so that everything I want is there, right from install, including how I setup my KDE panel and everything.

I wonder what's keeping Valve from just officially releasing SteamOS for general use.

They answered many times already - it's not ready yet.

Yeah... how many years would that count as an argument?

It's Valve... So we operate in Valve time :-D For example "Hopefully Next Week" means "9 Months Later"
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time

Why even bother with linux at all if you remove all aspects that makes it linux? you are turning linux into android.

No, what makes Linux Linux is that it is open source and can be adapted to fit specific use cases. In this case it is to provide a simple to update / roll back stable experience for an appliance type device. It succeeds here for what it is intended, and to be honest I have not heard of any system updates breaking things in the 2 years since it launched.

I really don't get why people are so weird about it.

No, what makes Linux Linux is that it is open source and can be adapted to fit specific use cases. In this case it is to provide a simple to update / roll back stable experience for an appliance type device. It succeeds here for what it is intended, and to be honest I have not heard of any system updates breaking things in the 2 years since it launched.

I really don't get why people are so weird about it.

That exact same argument can be used for android. So why bother with linux at all and not use android x86 (if it supported steam)? have you forgot why you use linux? what really matters is the users freedom, not the proprietors

Immutable system partitions do not take away any freedom from the user. They can unlock the immutable drive and disable the image updates. Or they can install ChimeraOS or anything else. Your arguments are short-sighted and useless. Zealot level sour gatekeepy nonsense that has no place in the Linux community.

That exact same argument can be used for android. So why bother with linux at all and not use android x86 (if it supported steam)? have you forgot why you use linux? what really matters is the users freedom, not the proprietors

You could say the same thing for Chromebooks. Why not Android or Windows?

Linux here is still being used freely. SteamOS is just Arch with a KDE desktop. And you can disable read-only. If you have a problem with being limited, that's completely fair from your point of view since I think you see it as just another distro.

But Valve is using Linux as a basis for their own operating system. And they are targeting a specific audience: people who are trying to get into PC gaming with a low entry barrier. Disabling write permissions in that regard makes sense. After all, some users (me included) are booting up Linux for the first time. What if they mess something up and don't know what to do? They don't have the experience you do with these issues. They may not know what to Google or what the problem even is.

And the vast majority of steam deck users would benefit if steam deck ran windows by default instead of steamos.

I really don't think they would, though. The Windows UI works badly for that use case and cannot (because it's like, closed source and controlled by a vast unresponsive corporation) be readily adjusted to make it work any better.

A locked down linux distro is no different than using a proprietary distro

That statement is categorically false. It most certainly is very different. Nobody so far as I know has claimed Valve is violating the GPL or any other free software licenses. So, the source is available and if someone wanted to grab them and release a version that was identical to SteamOS (with presumably a different name) but not immutable, there is nothing to stop them.

I can have whatever opinion I want about software I use without you telling me what I should think.

Um, no. You can have whatever opinion you want, and indeed state it. But by the same token, just as you are telling other people what they should think, they can also tell you what to think. You don't get to have it only go one way. Really, this sounds amazingly bad from someone who just a couple posts ago was telling people

What an asinine remark.

I think maybe people who live in asinine houses shouldn't throw stones.

You know exactly what I mean by the statement.

I was doing you the courtesy of assuming you meant what you said--a courtesy you are clearly not extending to me. Good day, sir.

It's hard to take people seriously when comments are basically 'Windows good, Linux bad' --

I felt this was a good counter-argument:

The Windows UI works badly for that use case [Small form factor touch devices]

it's [...] closed source and controlled by a vast unresponsive corporation

Another gem, imagine [Valve] wanting to be business partner with a company [Microsoft] that (1) doesn't care what Valve wants and (2) wants you dead (so Microsoft Windows Store can have 100% of profits and answer to no one.)

A locked down linux distro is no different than using a proprietary distro

That statement is categorically false. It most certainly is very different. [...] GPL

This was a fantastic counter-argument as well. SteamOS and Linux-distros can be legally forked and developed by anyone for any reason or for no particular reason either. Microsoft Windows cannot be forked, it's (1) take it or (2) leave it -- and, if they do things users don't like user's options are (1) whine harder into the void or (2) be quit about it, or (3) take it. "No different" lmao. What bad faith of a self acclaimed expert.

If someone wanted to [...] release a version that was identical to SteamOS [...] but not immutable, there is nothing to stop them.

As it was pointed out above in the thread, SteamOS immutability can be turned off. It's literally just Arch-Linux but frozen with extras. I literally had turned off the immutability when I was modding my SteamOS for research purposes.

And I'm sure if I added the official mirrors to `/etc/pacman.conf` `/etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist` and did a software update `pacman -Syu` it would diverge in the same way that I turned Sabayon into a Gentoo back in the day simply by using `emerge`.

--

His avatar is literally the Wayland Logo in a trash can, he obviously has strong opinions and is quick to judge -- but the real funny part is when people are willing to dish out harsh criticism but can't take their own medicine.

Paper skin, glass homes.

But hey 'Wind0ze good, Lunix bad' -- is basically a straw-man -- I'll take that claim any day because it's a "belief" that's extremely easy to defeat using logic and reasoning similar to "one size fits all" -- it's not even offensive -- it just comes off as Microsoft shill bate, gatekeepers angry at the influx of new people, and an inferior enemy (Microsoft) loosing the battle.

And as for his 'I'm a great Linux Warrior of many years and da open source' claims -- his profile is set to private, and I would like to know exactly what "Great battles" and "Great achievements" he was referencing. Like okay move over Lennart Poettering, if you want to be a aggro belligerent genius with a narcissism personality disorder -- that's fine by me -- people will tolerate you to an extent -- but _only_ if you deliver. So far all the logical arguments are "not delivering" and "not standing up" at all -- which makes it baseless vitrol. So far, in the end everyone's time was wasted, the popcorn eaters got theirs, and I guess the recompensation would be the "fitness gains" of another walk in the park debate, piece of cake.

Making SteamOS read/write doesn't solve your problem? An OS update will wipe your changes, but that'll just make you better prepared to redeploy your software.

What an asinine remark. If microsoft said that to developers they would be hanged at the gallows.

Also, "SteamOS being immutable is the absolute worst part of steam deck": well, perhaps for you, but for the vast, vast majority of SD users it's either irrelevant or very beneficial, depending how you look at it.

And the vast majority of steam deck users would benefit if steam deck ran windows by default instead of steamos. A locked down linux distro is no different than using a proprietary distro, or even android. Why even bother with linux at all if you remove all aspects that makes it linux? you are turning linux into android.

Haha, you are clearly lost. Let me point the way for you: www.microsoft.com

And as for his 'I'm a great Linux Warrior of many years and da open source' claims

He claims he has used Linux longer than me without knowing how long I have used Linux. If that's not a sign of talking out of his butt, I don't know what is.

I have used linux since the 90s, you most likely haven't.

The joke is on you then. I taught Linux at a college in 1999 after having used it for some years. I worked at an ISP before that that had many servers using Linux, BSD, Irix. Before that, my first introduction to Linux was in 1994 because it was used on one of the terminals I used to dial into for email, irc, usenet etc. This was not the norm. Many systems at the time still used operating systems like Vax. Sadly I could not install Linux on my Amiga then, but the GNU tools were ported, so I got familiar that way before my first PC a year or two later.


Last edited by rustybroomhandle on 31 January 2024 at 1:17 pm UTC

You have no right to talk about what belongs in the linux community

I dont know why you are so mad that people have their own opinions.

You have no right to talk about what belongs in the linux community

I dont know why you are so mad that people have their own opinions.

>shut up, people with opinions like yours dont belong in the linux community
>under what authority do you tell people where they belong or not?
I rephrased it for you if you didn't get it the first time

I totally understood what you said: You're entitled to an opinion, others (at your choice) are not. The following is enough answer to what you said:

I dont know why you are so mad that people have their own opinions.

Last edited by Eike on 1 February 2024 at 5:19 pm UTC

The first quote was a meta question, trying to silence others

And that's the problem.