World of Goo 2 launches in May on the Epic Store - but Linux support from their website

Instabuy as far as I'm concerned. Takes me back to the early and pre- Humble Bundle days. I remember a time where there were a couple of companies porting games to Tux, more open source games, (almost) no Triple-A's requiring super fast machines, and when we were hoping the desktop Linux would take over the world ! (instead of having the Linux kernel on top of GAFAM ecosystems everywhere).

Well, everything was not that great, we were still struggling with Flash and drivers. It was sometimes a PITA to get games running (binary distributions and neverending WINE/Cedega/... tweaking). And the early KDE 4 era was such a mess ! But at least I had the time to play all those games and that was good enough to me (better for my focus and overall philosophy) but I'm not representative AT ALL ;)

Meanwhile, back to my Amiga 1200, many games & demos still being released :)


Last edited by bidinou on 22 Feb 2024 at 2:21 pm UTC

I saw many reports about issues with Proton.

You're not wrong but times have changed. Proton used to be buggy but now it's practically seamless. Like in my earlier example, I only had problems with Ghostrunner and that was only because I was running it from Heroic. If I had bought the game from Steam, it would be a one-click option.

It's just not too entertaining for me to play games for Windows.

??? Do you mean that you have more fun setting up games for Linux than actually playing games? I mean, if that's true, that's cool, but otherwise, I'm not sure what you mean??? Games are fun regardless of the OS. If you primarily play games on Windows, that's cool. If you play games mainly on Linux, that's cool too.

Windows is better for these games, and above 90% of Windows users can confirm it - this operating system sells so well.

The only reason that Windows sells well is because every OEM ships their PCs and laptops with it. Plus, people are used to Windows so they're going to pick the one that they're most familiar with. That doesn't mean that Windows is better; the Steam Deck's success proves that Linux is ultimately better. Especially since you can dual boot the Deck with Windows. I did that with mine and honestly, it's not worth it.

OK, I don't think much of some of the stuff gbudny is saying.

But there is an issue with old Linux native games not running on modern Linux (to be fair, even Windows' once-impressive backward compatibility has been slipping in recent versions). But it seems to me like it could be a pretty solvable issue. I mean, all the code from then is available, right? And the Linux kernel itself as I understand it is very backwards-compatible, so it's all about libraries and stuff, yes? So, like, shouldn't it be possible to make Flatpak-ish sandboxes that reproduce various vintages of Linux, using old libraries (or, where they'd actually work fine, new libraries renamed to look like old ones)?

OK, I don't think much of some of the stuff gbudny is saying.

But there is an issue with old Linux native games not running on modern Linux (to be fair, even Windows' once-impressive backward compatibility has been slipping in recent versions). But it seems to me like it could be a pretty solvable issue. I mean, all the code from then is available, right? And the Linux kernel itself as I understand it is very backwards-compatible, so it's all about libraries and stuff, yes? So, like, shouldn't it be possible to make Flatpak-ish sandboxes that reproduce various vintages of Linux, using old libraries (or, where they'd actually work fine, new libraries renamed to look like old ones)?

My immediate thought is that this is a problem Distrobox is designed to solve. Obviously, there needs to be a more user-friendly solution in the future.

Yes, this is a real issue. I don't play that many games, but I've had to manually patch half of the ones I played last year, without guidance from the developer (they have no clue how to fix it either), just based on error messages. Issues ranged from needing older libraries (I compiled from the AUR), needing newer libraries (I deleted the bundled libraries), to "the game engine is EOL so the developer can't update the game easily, but Linux's fontconfig introduced a breaking change a few years ago, so I need to download a newer version of the bundled library, replace it, and hope it works with the other bundled libraries".

one of the first games to support linux

I find it weird that people find it weird that a company supports our platform of choice. I wish more devs had an option to bypass the bullshit stores. Why is it so necessary to put the game on these stores?

Because Proton, which is only usable by most people on Steam, provides a better experience in most cases than a native Linux version.

That's not necessarily my experience, although I recently had to install old libraries to get Loop Hero from GOG to work again, but a lot of Linux users do say as much. I also had to manually patch a library for another native Linux game from Itch. And delete some old bundled libraries for a Ren'Py game from Itch...

But I do support devs releasing their games wherever they want. It's just, supporting Linux natively long-term, even with open source engines, seems far more challenging than other platforms.

i had issues with games like open arena and super tux, once i updated my system...
but i havent had much trouble that i can remember of since i set myself to only using LTS.

supporting Linux natively long-term, even with open source engines, seems far more challenging than other platforms.

Which other platforms? Microsoft does a fair job of backwards compatibility with Windows, but certainly Apple does not. macOS developers have to keep up on maintenance, or their customers can't play their games after a few OS updates.

consoles are totally closed platforms with NDA and a lot of i$$ues that make it hard for an open source engine to support then.

I think it's far more important for Microsoft that Linux users have some doubts about all the work done by dead companies like Loki Software. I think about the open source libraries used in creating native games for Linux. This mistrust of Linux users to own companies is beneficial for Microsoft.

except that , this is not how things works.

gaming on linux was dead, we were receiving less and less ports and losing the small marketshare we had, a few people are stubborn and would never use windows but the vast majority of normal people couldnt care less and went back to windows as soon as they realize they were losing access to some incredible games and softwares by using linux.

honestly i almost gave up, we had not game engines so i tried to develop one, we had no video editors, no tools like "substance painter", not to mention the issues to install an game that i had no guarante would work on my video card or if i updated the OS, evne open source native games had issues.

meanwhile an game running on wine, used the native python in case the game had python scripts, the native java in case the game had java code among all the other code on it...
if an game is writen using vulkan wine just passthrough the vulkan calls to the linux drivers.

linux was dying without any hope to recover until valve made proton.
if we grow the marketshare we will have more native ports and an proper support from game engines like unity that currently threat us as second class citizens.

speaking of it, nowadays almost all games use thirdy party game engines, and their support for an platform is as good as the engine support is, its pointless to talk about the good work of companies that support linux like loki, loki probably had full control of their own code, unlike anyone who uses unity.
if unity ignore the native libraries that linux have and make their own libraries and port then in order to support it, then praising our libraries is useless.

It's just not too entertaining for me to play games for Windows.

games are games, i dont see things like "games for windows" they are just games that happens to support windows, consoles if they can (since consoles are an curated market that only accept games from big publishers and sucessfull indies) and in some rare cases mac or linux.

most normal people just wanted to play the games their friends were playing or the ones they saw an ad for, the difference between an gamer and an linux gamer was that linux gamers only cared about the games that supported linux, and the normal gamers cared about games in general , they purchased consoles to play their exclusives if they cared about then, or played on pc if they dont wich means they had access to everything else, and then there is the linux hipster guys who played only a few games that supported linux and claim these are enough despite not knowing what they were missing, sigh.


seriously, i wont deny that i had a lot of fun with the lemings clone that was better than the original (pingus >>> lemings ms-dos) and a LOT of fun with frozen bubble (thanks in part to the awesome musics, but im just adctied to those puzzle games) but come on, ignoring games like ocarina of time because they dont have an port for linux?

let me tell you something, the reason why i and many people love linux and open source , is not because its an beauty ideology that we support but because such ideology fucking works, if we had to chose between playing our musics, animes, movies, games and using linux what you think the vast majority would do?
linux dont have an small marketshare just because people dont know how to install an OS, ask anyone on my country what they did when their computer came with an crap OS like Satux, they shoved an pirated copy of xp on it.
one of the biggest reasons why linux dont grow is that when people finally give it a chance they regreat.
valve is fixing it.

OK, I don't think much of some of the stuff gbudny is saying.

But there is an issue with old Linux native games not running on modern Linux (to be fair, even Windows' once-impressive backward compatibility has been slipping in recent versions). But it seems to me like it could be a pretty solvable issue. I mean, all the code from then is available, right? And the Linux kernel itself as I understand it is very backwards-compatible, so it's all about libraries and stuff, yes? So, like, shouldn't it be possible to make Flatpak-ish sandboxes that reproduce various vintages of Linux, using old libraries (or, where they'd actually work fine, new libraries renamed to look like old ones)?

good luck solving dependece hell for packages that arent distributed anymore.
maybe you can just rename an new library for it old name in some cases...
the issue is if they rely on an fork of the library


Last edited by elmapul on 24 Feb 2024 at 9:26 am UTC

Before Valve invested in Linux I had to buy consoles to get my gaming fix. After a while I was considering buying one again, native games were slowly declining in number and Wine pre-DXVK was not able to play recent releases. Then Proton arrived, and man, I never looked back.

I bought a Switch for my kids last Xmas and that's the first console I buy I don't play at all. Linux covers all my gaming needs all thanks to Proton, it's such a great piece of software I don't even notice I'm actually running non-native games.

I know I've been hating on John Carmack for saying the future of Linux gaming was Wine, but man, he was absolutely right, and deserves my deepest apologies.

When you come to think of it, dedicated layers of API translations are the most fail-safe and future-proof technical solution possible for gaming when it's got got low overhead, and Valve offered us just that by funding open source projects.

It's hard to answer all users because it takes some time. My opinion about the Linux gaming history is different for a good reason. I think about what was happening on less popular platforms before 2010.

We had many professional operating systems with few commercial games like AIX, HP-UX, Solaris, Irix, Zeta, etc.

Linux x86 was the official winner in the commercial games in 2009 compared to the other Linux architectures. The porting process of popular games to Linux running on computers with processors like PowerPC, Sparc, and Alpha was over.

We had more serious platforms like AmigaOS and MoprhOS that slowly started to have less popular games. Linux users could enjoy playing more games that weren't available for Mac OS X..

It's time to talk about 2009 and 2011.

Before Valve invested in Linux I had to buy consoles to get my gaming fix. After a while I was considering buying one again, native games were slowly declining in number and Wine pre-DXVK was not able to play recent releases. Then Proton arrived, and man, I never looked back.

In 2009, the indie comapnies started to get more active, and we could expect the AAA titles mainly from LGP, or Ryan Gordon. For example, Jack Keane was the popular adventure game. Unfortunately, the pre-orders for the Linux version were probably disappointing for Runesoft, so they stop doing it for few years.

Impressive games wre available for Linux like Penumbra, Savage 2, Oil Rush etc., but from smaller companies. The existing indie companies started to port more games like Anawiki Games, Basilisk Games, Winter Wolves, Tycoon Games, My Game Company. Some of them with the long history like InterAction Studios decided to join.

Desura and Ubuntu Software Center wanted to sell these classic games from LGP, Runesoft, and hundreds of indie games, some from well-known comapanies like MumboJumbo.

In 2009 - 2011, we gradualy start to have regular weekly releases of the indie games for Linux. Unfortunately, many users didn't want to buy mainly the indie games from less popular online stores. They wanted Steam for Linux.

HIB was the success because users didn't have to spend $25 - $40 (+ other costs) for AAA tittles or $20-25 for the indie game. They can get five or more games for few bucks. Of course, Valve noticed it, and you know the rest of the history.

I think Linux getting back to the point when users have less the native AAA titles, and more indie games.

I know I've been hating on John Carmack for saying the future of Linux gaming was Wine, but man, he was absolutely right, and deserves my deepest apologies.

ID software spent a year porting games to Linux and didn't want to lose more money. Quake 3 for Linux was a disaster for them when you think about sales. Id Software released only three Quake games in 1999. The rest of the games were unofficial releases ported by their employees in their spare time. Fans like it, but ID software didn't have any money directly from Linux users after it.


Last edited by gbudny on 24 Feb 2024 at 12:00 pm UTC

It's hard to answer all users because it takes some time. My opinion about the Linux gaming history is different for a good reason. I think about what was happening on less popular platforms before 2010.

You know that an awful lot of people here, including those you're trying to avoid responding to, were there to witness all of that personally, right?

We have the views we have on Linux gaming history because we saw how things were on less-popular platforms too; GOL has plenty of people who used those before shifting to Linux.

You know that an awful lot of people here, including those you're trying to avoid responding to, were there to witness all of that personally, right?

We have the views we have on Linux gaming history because we saw how things were on less-popular platforms too; GOL has plenty of people who used those before shifting to Linux.

I know some people here used Linux before 2010 or earlier. I don't think that is the majority of users on this website. Unfortunately, I have doubts that people know what was released back then because more Linux users knew about ID software, Epic games, and a few other companies. That's it.

You had to use websites like holarse, linuxgames.com, or happypenguin.org to get only some news. Tracking promotions was also almost impossible because you had to use the RSS feeds. You didn't have a store that had no more than 60 titles for Linux on sale. I suspect users share their opinions based on the LGP/Runesoft resellers. The Linux games lists were sometimes the better source of information.

Now you have wishlists and big online stores with games for Linux.

Users cared more about the AAA titles for Windows or the game consoles than indie games for Linux. We have Linux as the gaming platform that has existed for 30 years. The Linux retro community is tiny compared to the other platforms like Amiga or Mac.

Why did Amiga and Mac users know more about the gaming history of their systems?

I know about a few issues with it.
It had something to do with the prices of games, shipping costs, and customs duties. We had a community of Cedega users who also strongly believed it solved all their problems, just like Proton users today. I think it will always be the version of Wine that people think about too seriously.
It's a repetitive process thinking about Linux with the different versions of Wine as the new OS/2. IBM had the source code from Microsoft, and it didn't help.

Let's say that Wine/Proton is the future of Windows games on Linux.
Linux need Microsoft to support Wine to see the radical change in the market. Otherwise, Linux will be in the same position as Mac OS X for many years. I don't know if Microsoft will ever do it.

Why they should do it is the better question.

Can you give me an example of a system, or a game console that achieved success based mainly on games created for their competitors?

I don't care how buggy or unstable are some Linux games because you can see this issue on other operating systems or game consoles. That's the part of the gaming experience on every platform. Users can accept this situation, or reject it.

I think every successful gaming platform needs users who will generate enough money for companies to keep it alive. Linux achieved it with mainly indie games.

Is it enough for everyone?


Last edited by gbudny on 24 Feb 2024 at 1:39 pm UTC

I know some people here used Linux before 2010 or earlier. I don't think that is the majority of users on this website.

My experience has been that most people I encounter here are in the 40+ bracket like myself, and quite often much older. Obviously I don't know how it breaks down beyond the regulars I often see who make comments that give some clues about demographics, though.

Unfortunately, I have doubts that people know what was released back then because more Linux users knew about ID software, Epic games, and a few other companies. That's it.

Got any citations for what "more Linux users" knew, or is that just anecdotal experience?

Seriously, on every platform, most people are going to know the "big names" - that's not specific to Linux.

You had to use websites like holarse, linuxgames.com, or happypenguin.org to get only some news. Tracking promotions was also almost impossible because you had to use the RSS feeds. You didn't have a store that had no more than 60 titles for Linux on sale. I suspect users share their opinions based on the LGP/Runesoft resellers. The Linux games lists were sometimes the better source of information.

Now you have wishlists and big online stores with games for Linux.

Yeah, I know.

Here's an interesting one for you from one of the indies who used to sell direct from their site back in the day: http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/The-state-of-Mac-and-Linux-gaming

Users cared more about the AAA titles for Windows or the game consoles than indie games for Linux. We have Linux as the gaming platform that has existed for 30 years. The Linux retro community is tiny compared to the other platforms like Amiga or Mac.

People like what they like. No sane person is going to buy something they don't enjoy just because it's for a particular operating-system - that's not how to get support for what you actually want.

A person who likes genres not represented on a platform won't get them to appear by buying other unrelated things just because those unrelated things are made for a particular OS.

Why did Amiga and Mac users know more about the gaming history of their systems?

Because they were actually officially pushed as gaming platforms at various points. It's only relatively recently that a major entity started investing in doing the same for Linux.

I know about a few issues with it.
It had something to do with the prices of games, shipping costs, and customs duties. We had a community of Cedega users who also strongly believed it solved all their problems, just like Proton users today. I think it will always be the version of Wine that people think about too seriously.
It's a repetitive process thinking about Linux with the different versions of Wine as the new OS/2. IBM had the source code from Microsoft, and it didn't help.

If it solves your issue it does, and if it doesn't it doesn't. It not solving your issue does not invalidate the tool.

Let's say that Wine/Proton is the future of Windows games on Linux.
Linux need Microsoft to support Wine to see the radical change in the market. Otherwise, Linux will be in the same position as Mac OS X for many years. I don't know if Microsoft will ever do it.

Why they should do it is the better question.

Yet again with the Microsoft promotions. Microsoft hasn't done anything, and yet through the efforts of Valve and those they work with we've got a tool that's almost as seamless as Apple's Rosetta. And anyone who used that (so to speak - it was automatic and embedded into the OS at the time) will know how incredibly good Rosetta was, so Proton being close to that is high praise indeed.

Proton is part of the future of games on Linux. The PC-gaming part of the video games industry pie sits at 22% currently, which is smaller than the 28% console lump, and much smaller than the 50% that mobile telephone/tablet gaming takes up; Linux is an ultra-tiny fraction of that 22% that belongs to the collective of OSes in the PC world - it only recently surpassed MacOS gaming, which has been where it is for decades. Like it or not, tech-adoption is driven by gaming, and Proton has proven itself necessary to smoothly get the numbers to rise.

Can you give me an example of a system, or a game console that achieved success based mainly on games created for their competitors?

The Amstrad CPC. It had similar guts to the Sinclair ZX Spectrum and got a lot of Spectrum ports with slightly prettied-up graphics. Though some complained about this, most people didn't care, and the machine was very successful in both its native Britain and in Germany under the Schneider brand. (Hilariously, later, Amstrad bought Sinclair, and this still kept happening.)

Indeed, we can somewhat expand out from that example and name pretty much all of the 8-bit microcomputers that ruled the roost in the UK and EU throughout the 1980s and well into the mid-1990s, because a large part of their adoption into homes came from conversions of arcade-games that the platforms' creators had no ownership of and which were competing for players' time.

And then there's the Famiclone rabbit-hole, where clones of the Famicom/NES became even more ubiquitous than the real thing!

I don't care how buggy or unstable are some Linux games because you can see this issue on other operating systems or game consoles. That's the part of the gaming experience on every platform. Users can accept this situation, or reject it.

It's really not a part of the gaming experience on every platform, and especially not on Linux. I think it's fair to say that a hell of a lot of us here value Linux for its stability, and that extends to gaming on the OS.

I literally never encounter instability with anything I play on Linux, be that native, run via Proton, or emulated. Of course, it's your choice what you do for fun, but why would you choose to subject yourself to bugginess and instability during your leisure-time?

I think every successful gaming platform needs users who will generate enough money for companies to keep it alive. Linux achieved it with mainly indie games.

Is it enough for everyone?

To do that, we need much higher numbers of people who game on the platform. Telling people "Switch to Linux, lose access to all of your games, only play buggy broken old stuff!" is a dreadful idea considering that gaming drives the adoption of technology.


Last edited by Pengling on 25 Feb 2024 at 3:44 am UTC

If anyone knows anyone at Valve, we should really look into a competitor program to Epic's Free Money. I'd imagine a small quantity of cash and some cushy Steam treatment, in exchange for "no other storefronts" and maybe "supports Win+Mac+Lin, gets Deck Verified" would do some Real Good Stuff for the Linux world.

we should really look into a competitor program to Epic's Free Money

I get where this comes from, but I disagree. Fighting exclusivity with exclusivity would make the PC gaming landscape worse. I don't just want games on Steam, I want zero paid third-party exclusivity (and that includes on consoles, hence why I don't buy from Sony).

I think Valve should stay out of the exclusivity game. Attract develoopers by having a good platform and showing that the Epic Free Money hurts in the long-term.

If Valve start buying exclusivity, they're no better than scumbags like Epic, Tomorrow Corporation (I say this with a Little Inferno profile pic, and an ex-fan of Tomorrow Corporation), and every other dev that buys into paid third-party exclusivity.


Last edited by sonic2kk on 3 Mar 2024 at 6:31 pm UTC

If Valve start buying exclusivity, they're no better than scumbags like Epic, Tomorrow Corporation (I say this with a Little Inferno profile pic, and an ex-fan of Tomorrow Corporation), and every other dev that buys into paid third-party exclusivity.

I completely agree with the bit about Valve not having to buy exclusives, but calling Tomorrow Corporation names when you can buy the native Linux build DRM free from their website IMHO may be a little overreacting, don't you think?

I know some people here used Linux before 2010 or earlier. I don't think that is the majority of users on this website.

My experience has been that most people I encounter here are in the 40+ bracket like myself, and quite often much older. Obviously I don't know how it breaks down beyond the regulars I often see who make comments that give some clues about demographics, though.

Late, but I'm uh, quite a bit younger than that. Which is why I find it interesting to ask users like Purple Library Guy about history, because I wasn't there for most of it.

Late, but I'm uh, quite a bit younger than that. Which is why I find it interesting to ask users like Purple Library Guy about history, because I wasn't there for most of it.

Glad to hear that, I got the impression that Linux desktop is nearly exclusive to us old far...