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PayPalWhile defaulting to Wayland since version 25 of Fedora Workstation (GNOME), and Fedora version 34 for the KDE Plasma Desktop spin, this Linux distribution intends to completely ditch X.Org session as fallback for GNOME on release 41.
Quoting Jens Petersen from the change number 414 of fedora-workstation Pague:
Fedora Workstation WG discussed this today and we agreed we should do this for Fedora 41, since it is really too late already for F40 and it should really be handled as a System Wide Change anyway.
Based on that message we can conclude that while it is too late to have that change merged into Fedora 40, it is likely that this will be the default for Fedora 41, making GNOME completely bound to Wayland with no X.Org fallback.
While one user on that same discussion stated that screen reader users will still rely on the X11 session because of some GNOME bugs, it is likely that any software still using X11 by default will not be distributed with the installation ISO as pointed out by Neal Gompa.
Other than that, no matter if you are an NVIDIA, Intel or AMD user, this might be a really good move starting with Fedora because GNOME developers can focus on fixing existing Wayland bugs instead of wasting time with three layers (X.Org, Wayland and in some cases XWayland).
The ChangeSet page for that Fedora 41 was not updated with this change as per the date of this article.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Quoting: CatKillerQuoting: ssj17vegetaI always wondered. What's in it for the end-user ? (Wayland)
Support for multiple monitors of varying refresh rates, HDR support, and eliminating round trips between the display server and the compositor because the compositor is the display server are the headline desirable features.
The first two only really came about during the long, long development of Wayland, admittedly, and the primary motivation wasn't about features, but just that everyone that was capable of doing anything with Xorg no longer wanted to do anything with Xorg.
Also stuff like streamable v4l devices (hello PipeWire :))
Yes, we totally want this!
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I'm using an NVIDIA GPU and a Wacom tablet instead of a mouse. Both are currently not really usable on Gnome Wayland. That said, I still very welcome this switch to reduce landscape and have manpower available for getting Wayland into shape.
I'm not worried of NVIDIA, the explicit sync stuff is shaping up nicely and I guess by the end of year we have a perfect Wayland experience on NVIDIA. There is also NVK coming with an astonishing speed. The Wacom support on Gnome Wayland is getting better too, but there are still some hurdles. Fortunately there is also `labwc` which works perfectly with regard to tablet support.
Last edited by jens on 8 March 2024 at 7:27 am UTC
I'm not worried of NVIDIA, the explicit sync stuff is shaping up nicely and I guess by the end of year we have a perfect Wayland experience on NVIDIA. There is also NVK coming with an astonishing speed. The Wacom support on Gnome Wayland is getting better too, but there are still some hurdles. Fortunately there is also `labwc` which works perfectly with regard to tablet support.
Last edited by jens on 8 March 2024 at 7:27 am UTC
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My litmus test when it comes to wayland is the visibility of the Steam Controller cursor, since I really need it. I test wayland quite often, but so far this is still a very old (years) issue waiting for a fix. There are several workarounds, like using gamescope or extest but nothing "official". As for the causes, there is a discussion on Gitlab with interesting arguments from developers. A rare occasion to see plagman rather annoyed.
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/merge_requests/431
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/merge_requests/431
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Thanks for the link, interesting use case and underlines how difficult the transition to Wayland is when looking into the details. Reading that discussion, I understand both arguments.
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pleasereadthemanual Mar 8
Quoting: jensI'm using an NVIDIA GPU and a Wacom tablet instead of a mouse. Both are currently not really usable on Gnome Wayland. That said, I still very welcome this switch to reduce landscape and have manpower available for getting Wayland into shape.My experience is that Krita is terrible on GNOME, Wayland or X11, with a NVIDIA GPU. My Wacom tablet works properly on KDE Wayland and only KDE Wayland.
I'm not worried of NVIDIA, the explicit sync stuff is shaping up nicely and I guess by the end of year we have a perfect Wayland experience on NVIDIA. There is also NVK coming with an astonishing speed. The Wacom support on Gnome Wayland is getting better too, but there are still some hurdles. Fortunately there is also `labwc` which works perfectly with regard to tablet support.
Of course, Krita's toolbar flickers black every 5 seconds so it's a little distracting.
Have I mentioned how tired I am of NVIDIA's proprietary drivers before?
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Quoting: pleasereadthemanualMy experience is that Krita is terrible on GNOME, Wayland or X11, with a NVIDIA GPU. My Wacom tablet works properly on KDE Wayland and only KDE Wayland.
Of course, Krita's toolbar flickers black every 5 seconds so it's a little distracting.
Have I mentioned how tired I am of NVIDIA's proprietary drivers before?
Cool to hear that the KDE folks got their tablet support right. I'm using my Wacom tablet solemnly as a mouse replacement, not for actual drawing. So slightly different use case I guess. Lots of Wacom related PR's got merged for the upcoming Gnome version, so I have hopes that the normal interaction works better, but things like https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/issues/2983 are still open and probably no that easy to address :(
Yeah, the flickering might be related to the implicit/explicit sync issues. I sincerely hope that https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/90 gets merged soon and all related PR's land in compositors, xwayland etc. From my understanding, that should solve all flickering (asuming what you are seeing is related to that). Side note, reading through the discussion of that PR, NVIDIA engineers are pushing for this and contributed heavily, so it is not NVIDIA that is holding back.
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Quoting: ElectricPrismI'm curious why do you think this would be strategically in Valve's interest? How would they stand to benefit? And Are there any observable behaviors or things in the news that align with this hypothesis?
Well, NVIDIA makes up most of the PC market. Most people switching to SteamOS won't know to grab an AMD graphics card just for Linux. They'll either stick to Windows or complain to Valve that their PC doesn't work right even though Valve has no control over it. Waiting for NVK to mature is the right move because it means that they can hire developers to work on issues that they find without any red tape. Actually, Valve Devs are already helping out with NVK.
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So basically games that are using Proton/WINE won't work at all with Fedora 41?
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Quoting: sudoerSo basically games that are using Proton/WINE won't work at all with Fedora 41?
No. Proton/Wine works just fine, also currently, using XWayland on a Wayland desktop session.
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Quoting: jensQuoting: sudoerSo basically games that are using Proton/WINE won't work at all with Fedora 41?
No. Proton/Wine works just fine, also currently, using XWayland on a Wayland desktop session.
Thanks, I think I heard recently (from the TLE youtube guy) that it was not possible, maybe I misunderstood it.
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