Well, there it is, the update for Roblox has arrived that now forcefully blocks it from working with Wine on Linux systems (like Steam Deck).
It's been a bit of a saga hasn't it? Roblox has always been somewhat iffy to play on Linux, at times being broken while people working on the likes of Grapefruit and Vinegar repeatedly kept up with changes to make it work. The Roblox developers then introduced Hyperion anti-cheat software, although they continued to make it work unofficially with Wine but that wasn't to last as a developer explained that it has caused cheating.
Now if you try to run it, you will simply be told "Wine is not supported.":
This is an intentional change by the Roblox dev team, to block Wine, as noted in the previous article linked above where a Roblox developer clearly replied to note it wouldn't work in future.
Despite what you may think of Roblox (and it's historically had plenty of problems) as one of the biggest gaming platforms ever, it's certainly a shame to see it go. There's plenty of people out there that have Roblox as their main thing, and so not being able to do it on Linux is quite a loss.
Any game that intentionally prevents it from working on Linux is a loss as it just increases the uphill battle Linux has as a gaming platform. There's not exactly many accessible alternatives to it for Linux fans.
Know any alternatives for people looking? Let readers know in the comments.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
Some you may have missed, popular articles from the last month:
Quoting: Purple Library GuyAh, yeah, they did say that. Um, is that actually a thing? Does Wine itself help you do that? In a way that blocking just running the software under Wine will stop? I have no idea, so I'm hoping someone knows.That's a lot of speculation about something you have no idea about.
[…]
But presumably anyone using Wine as a tool for cheating will not be deterred by this issue and will alter the open source Wine software in whatever way they need to get it to work again, and distribute the altered version to the cheater community. Sooo, if Wine is actually used by cheaters to analyze the Roblox software, blocking Wine will probably stop legitimate use but not the cheaters. Um, congratulations?
[…]
Quoting: pilkHowever, this does absolutely nothing, not a damn thing, to stop cheating. The idea that it does is completely asinine.Even Wine in it's default configuration allows a lot insight into closed source code:
Most cheaters use Windows and software specifically designed for Windows. Disabling Linux support isn't going to magically stop them.
QuoteNever use +relay or +snoop with native DLLs! This will show you the implementation of those DLLs, which means that any code you write to implement them violates our clean room reverse-engineering rules.
https://wiki.winehq.org/Debug_Channels
QuoteDon'tI would imagine using an open source implementation of Windows APIs could have a lot of advantages to disassembly or using a Windows debugger.
- Don't use +relay with native components. In general, try to avoid debugging with native components, as that leaks information about what function calls those components make.
https://wiki.winehq.org/Clean_Room_Guidelines
Another possibility could be to fake the Wine environment under Windows if the anti-cheat is weaker due to missing APIs.
The paranoia of the GamingOnLinux community is really baffling. Why would they care anyone using Wine unless they have strong indication it's getting abused. I think you underestimate how big the cheating market really is.
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Quoting: poiuzThat's a lot of speculation about something you have no idea about.How rude.
Quoting: poiuzI would imagineSo, you don't know either, eh?
Quoting: poiuzThe paranoia of the GamingOnLinux community is really baffling.It's not baffling at all. The fact is that corporate statements about why they are discontinuing either Linux or Wine/Proton support have often turned out to be simply factually false (as have corporate statements about, well, pretty much everything). Linux gamers' suspicions about the truthfulness of such corporate statements may often be mistaken, but they're certainly not unwarranted. Once bitten, and all that.
One might think that they don't have reasons to bother lying about it, but the track record suggests that they do anyway.
Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 1 March 2024 at 8:26 pm UTC
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ElectricPrism Mar 1
Quoting: BlackBloodRumI've always found this "Wine causes cheating" to be a bit of an excuse. The majority of cheat software is made specifically for Windows and in-turn windows games. They make these claims, but never back it up with anything other than saying "we just know".
It really feels like a false reason. I mean, don't you find it ironic devs will turn around and say "We won't provide a Linux build because the Linux market is too small!" followed by "We are blocking Linux because there are too many people on Linux cheating!". Well, make up your mind because both sets of the OS's cheaters are a small subset of that OS's users.
It's pretty funny when you think about it yeah
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Quoting: Purple Library GuyHow rude.Sorry, how so? To quote you again:
Quoting: Purple Library Guy[…] I have no idea, so I'm hoping someone knows. [a lot of speculating why it doesn't work]
Quoting: Purple Library GuySo, you don't know either, eh?Of course not, I never claimed such a thing. I'm not a Roblox developer or Roblox cheat developer. But I know some capabilities of Wine & I know (& provided sources) of what Wine developers disallow because it provides a lot more insight than what would be legal for a clean implementation. Obviously this could be misused.
Quoting: Purple Library GuyIt's not baffling at all. The fact is that corporate statements about why they are discontinuing either Linux or Wine/Proton support have often turned out to be simply factually false (as have corporate statements about, well, pretty much everything).What are they lying about? Isn't it a fact that the kernel APIs are not & will not be implemented by Wine?
Quoting: Purple Library GuyLinux gamers' suspicions about the truthfulness of such corporate statements may often be mistaken, but they're certainly not unwarranted.You just assume that Wine gets blocked for the sake of blocking. You don't have any insights into the development & just believe that they want to harm Linux gaming. Again: Isn't it factual, that the kernel APIs are not & will not be implemented by Wine?
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My ten-year-old son just summed up this article for me;
"Well, now Roblox has gone and made themselves shit"
His PC's running Debian 12, and Roblox is his favourite game. He plays it just about daily with his classmates. Now he's stuck with playing it on his phone. He asked me today if there's a way to trick Roblox into thinking it's running on Windows, but it's actually running on Linux, and I had to explain to him that that's basically what he's been doing for the last two years.
"Well, now Roblox has gone and made themselves shit"
His PC's running Debian 12, and Roblox is his favourite game. He plays it just about daily with his classmates. Now he's stuck with playing it on his phone. He asked me today if there's a way to trick Roblox into thinking it's running on Windows, but it's actually running on Linux, and I had to explain to him that that's basically what he's been doing for the last two years.
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Quoting: KithopSimple solution to any of these that I (mostly) try to stick to:
Don't buy/play or support multiplayer games that don't support you hosting your own dedicated server, on hardware you control (none of this forced 'rent a server from our partners' BS either), using configs and settings you control, including the ability to opt out of and disable whatever anti-cheat they support.
Something like Minecraft Java? Amazing - totally the kind of thing an interested person can set up a private server for, mod and customize to your heart's content, invite friends and family onto and be able to admin (cheat) to fix when little Timmy's house gets blown up for the 5th time.
Any kind of 'live service' game? Not so much.
Now even I admit this can't be a 100% hard and fast rule - this means no MMOs, nothing ranked or hyper competitive, and not even the likes of casual things like VRChat (which *has* anti-cheat that works on Proton and they explicitly court Steam Deck support on, but that could change at any moment!), so you can be flexible if you so choose, but this is a general concept I try to stick to.
Kind of how hearing a cool game everyone talks about is some console exclusive, for a console I don't have nor have any other use for? That's nice, but I'll pass...
That's kind of the direction I've been moving unconsiously too. I even ditched steam and cs:go last summer and went all in on gog. Although i have a lot less time for playing lately as well.
We can say now they killed wine in Roblox.
Last edited by dvd on 1 March 2024 at 9:20 pm UTC
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From what i've heard about Roblox, i'd have never guessed that they have a problem with giving Wine to kids.
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Quoting: poiuzGosh, read what you said, and think about it.Quoting: Purple Library GuyHow rude.Sorry, how so?
Quoting: Purple Library GuyIt's not baffling at all. The fact is that corporate statements about why they are discontinuing either Linux or Wine/Proton support have often turned out to be simply factually false (as have corporate statements about, well, pretty much everything).
Quoting: poiuzWhat are they lying about?Now read what I said. Next time, ideally before you comment on it.
I didn't say the Roblox people were lying. I made a general point (the "paranoia" is often warranted) in response to your general comment that you didn't understand the paranoia. I said the overall history of corporations stating their reasons for discontinuing Linux support involves many instances of them lying about it. This is the case--very often corporate pronouncements on this are known to be false--either clearly weren't true because they then changed their story, sometimes multiple times, or were fundamentally at odds with known reality, or stuff surfaced that showed them not to be true. Others are dubious and have not been given the benefit of the doubt because they came from people who are known to lie a lot. The track record over the years adds up, and of course the memorable ones, well, are remembered more. So it shouldn't be baffling when people, confronted with a corporate statement of this sort, suspect that it may be part of this track record.
Whether it is in this case or not, I do not know. But it's not unreasonable for people to entertain the possibility. Now, if you think that we should in each case extend the benefit of the doubt and assume the truth is being told because people shouldn't be mean to corporations and their PR flacks, that would be a stance that could be argued. But if you genuinely find the "paranoia" "baffling", that is just because you are unaware of or have not thought about the history up until now that has led to it.
As to why corporations lie about something like this, when you wouldn't figure they should even care what we think if we're too few to bother taking our money . . . well, there are various reasons. In some cases the people giving the answer simply didn't know it and made something up. But I think the most common reason has to do with corporate branding. For any large corporation, they put a good deal of effort into making sure that none of their consumer-facing messaging makes them sound like they're interested in money (while all of their investor-facing messaging does), even though of course that is what they are mainly interested in. And whatever the details, the general answer to the question of why any company discontinues Linux support is "we think doing this will make us more, and/or cost us less, money." Which means that it doesn't match the messaging they want for their corporate brand, which is supposed to pretend that isn't what motivates them at all--so, they have to say something else. It's not that they care what we think in specific, it's about keeping all the messages pointed vaguely in the direction of consumer-dom consistent.
Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 1 March 2024 at 11:22 pm UTC
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Quoting: Purple Library GuyGosh, read what you said, and think about it.It doesn't change how many times I read it. Do you think it's rude to call you out on your false statements about something you (admitted) have no knowledge about?
Quoting: Purple Library GuyNow read what I said. Next time, ideally before you comment on it.I did & your comment just confirms what I was saying. You're really a funny person, making the whole argument for me.
Quoting: Purple Library GuyWhether it is in this case or not, I do not know. But it's not unreasonable for people to entertain the possibility. Now, if you think that we should in each case extend the benefit of the doubt and assume the truth is being told because people shouldn't be mean to corporations and their PR flacks, that would be a stance that could be argued. But if you genuinely find the "paranoia" "baffling", that is just because you are unaware of or have not thought about the history up until now that has led to it.No, I'm saying to apply common sense. You admitted yourself that you have no idea about the allegations the Roblox developers were making about Wine.
It's a fact that what the developers are saying about Wine is possible (sources provided in my first post). It's a fact that Wine does not implement the required APIs to run any kernel drivers (no source, but it's well known & mentioned in multiple anti-cheat related news here). It's a fact that the developers even helped in the past to get the game running with Wine ( Roblox support is coming back to Wine on Linux ).
So yes, I think it's very unreasonable to think it has anything to do but the incompatibility of their anti-cheat & Wine.
That their game-creation suite still works even reinforces the argument. There's no inherent incompatibility. It's just the anti-cheat which breaks everything. It's sad but it won't be the last time this is happening.
Last edited by poiuz on 3 March 2024 at 8:50 am UTC
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benstor214 Mar 2
What a corporate white knight...
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