In the ongoing saga of the Wolfire versus Valve lawsuit, which is continuing, we've been able to see a funny little look behind the curtain and Tim Sweeney was not happy with Valve.
Thanks to the work from Simon Carless of GameDiscoverCo which has a great round-up of what's going on (definitely worth a read for some backstory here), we've managed to see some emails between Epic's Tim Sweeney to Valve's Gabe Newell and Scott Lynch.
Back in 2017 an email from Newell to Sweeney asked "Anything we doing to annoy you? We’re guessing Sean Jenkins public dumbness might be part of it.", which is in reference to a leaked post where a Valve's Jenkins talked about restricting Steam keys. Sweeney replied to mention they've "never heard of Sean Jenkins" and then goes off talking about the 30% platform fee Valve charges and how it's "no longer justifiable" but there was a "good case for them in the early days" but due to scale costs "have been driven down".
Sweeney's point here is that Valve make a lot of money from that 30% cut and goes on to say "If you subtract out the top 25 games on Steam, I bet Valve made more profit from most of the next 1000 than the developer themselves made" and complains that when you add together Valve's cut, marketing and so on that the cut for developers is small.
After that we don't see anything until November 2018 in the documents where Sweeney emailed Newell again and also Valve's Erik Johnson, notifying Valve about the plans to announce the Epic Games Store with their lower cut of sales from developers. Sweeney also mentions here about their issues with Apple, and how Sweeney wants Apple to open up, and hopes that Valve would make a "timely move" to change their rates taken from developers. Sweeney also notes the opposite, hoping Valve don't have any "unannounced revenue-sharing changes that favored big publishers over indies" as it would basically tell the likes of Apple that they "can keep their closed platforms and just pay off big publishers to stay silent".
It was only a few days later (quite cheekily then), that Valve suddenly publicly announced their plan to reduce their take for the top-selling Steam games. Naturally, this annoyed Sweeney rather a lot, as the next email confirmed the Epic Games Store announcement was going live the next day and Sweeney says to Valve "Right now, you assholes are telling the world that the strong and powerful get special terms, while 30% is for the little people. We're all in for a prolonged battle if Apple tries to keep their monopoly and 30% by cutting backroom deals with big publishers to keep them quiet. Why not give ALL developers a better deal? What better way is there to convince Apple quickly that their model is now totally untenable?".
The only reply to this we can see was from Valve COO (Chief Operating Officer) Scott Lynch sent internally at Valve to Johnson and Newell that simply says "You mad bro?".
You can only imagine how truly mad Sweeney would be if they saw that with Valve just basically laughing it off completely. Well, Sweeney can see it now.
As we know from Valve when they released their 2023 yearly report, they're continuing to print money and repeatedly break user records and so the Epic Games Store hasn't seemingly made much of a dent at all. While Epic Games continue to try to pull developers over to their store with various exclusivity deals and constant weekly free games.
Update note: Clarified the "You mad bro?" email was internal at Valve, not to Sweeney directly.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Quoting: pleasereadthemanualYeah, I couldn't do banking on my phone. I wouldn't even want to, but I'm sure that's a blocker for many people. The rest of the stuff on your list (and calendar events, alarms, etc.) are fine.Quoting: tuubiI've owned a Pinephone for a few years now. I never use it and would never rely on it for even my simple needs with a phone. For reference, those are:Quoting: s01itudelinux on mobile (outside of android) is basically a joke at best at this pointThat's a bit harsh. I've been happy with Sailfish OS on my phones for years, and the wife isn't complaining either. If you're into mobile gaming or something, sure, it's not a realistic option, but it's certainly not a joke for those of us with simpler needs.
- Maps
- Messages
- Calls
- 2FA device
- Banking (can do it in the browser, I guess)
Quoting: pleasereadthemanualI can't run Signal on it, so I can't message anybody.Signal's official Android app worked fine on my Sailfish phone (using the inbuilt Android compatibility layer) when I tried it, except that it couldn't access my contacts. There's also a native client called Whisperfish that's still a bit janky but it mostly does the job. Same goes for Telegram: The official Android app works fine, and so does the slightly stripped down version on F-Droid, but I use a native FOSS client called Fernschreiber to chat to my Telegram contacts. But only if I'm not near a computer. I like a proper keyboard.
Quoting: pleasereadthemanualPerhaps the experience is better on Android phones that have been flashed with a Linux-based operating system.We've got a couple of Sony Xperia 10 III phones with paid Sailfish X licenses, and the OS installation was a manual process. There are currently no phones available with Sailfish OS pre-installed.
Before these I had the original Xperia 10, and before that the original Jolla phone from 2013 (a developer version that I got for free). As you can see, I don't really like phones, and I don't buy new ones until I absolutely need to.
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pleasereadthemanual Mar 17
Quoting: 1430%? Now, let's talk about Audible....Amazon takes 75%, for those curious, and 60% if you agree to make your audiobook exclusive to Audible. This is before the publisher even takes their cut.
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pleasereadthemanual Mar 17
Quoting: tuubiYeah, I couldn't do banking on my phone. I wouldn't even want to, but I'm sure that's a blocker for many people. The rest of the stuff on your list (and calendar events, alarms, etc.) are fine.I can't carry around enough cash for all possible purchases (besides, the number of stores even accepting cash is decreasing), so I need an easy way to transfer money quickly. Notifications for unexpected transactions also help me notice fraud more quickly.
The NFC payment feature in my banking app is also handy for reducing fraud, and isn't tied to Apple, Google, Samsung, or god forbid, Meta. Only to my bank, who has all my details and transaction history anyway. Not a requirement, but definite value add.
My phone is also a lot more secure than my computers (my GrapheneOS phone anyway, not my Pinephone), so I can't blame anybody for wanting to do their banking on a phone. Despite my distaste for phones, that's not a point I can even debate.
Quoting: tuubiSignal's official Android app worked fine on my Sailfish phone (using the inbuilt Android compatibility layer) when I tried it, except that it couldn't access my contacts. There's also a native client called Whisperfish that's still a bit janky but it mostly does the job. Same goes for Telegram: The official Android app works fine, and so does the slightly stripped down version on F-Droid, but I use a native FOSS client called Fernschreiber to chat to my Telegram contacts. But only if I'm not near a computer. I like a proper keyboard.The problem is, Signal requires me to have one phone and only one phone. You can only have one primary phone, and you can't transfer message history (easily), and it's all a big pain. I've heard Waydroid takes upwards of 7 minutes to startup on a Pinephone. Even if it worked (I tried Axolotl a few years ago, it did not work), I'm just not willing to disable one device so I can only use it on another. And the fact that I even feel I need a "backup phone" is reason enough not to do it. That's Signal's fault, but it is the biggest blocker for me. I'm glad it works for you.
I despise typing on a phone. Everything about it is awful. But, well, sometimes I don't have a keyboard near me, or need to call someone when I'm out.
Quoting: tuubiWe've got a couple of Sony Xperia 10 III phones with paid Sailfish X licenses, and the OS installation was a manual process. There are currently no phones available with Sailfish OS pre-installed.If you wanted to run Linux on a phone, that would be the way to do it. Definitely don't buy a Pinephone...unless you just want something to play with for a few hours.
Before these I had the original Xperia 10, and before that the original Jolla phone from 2013 (a developer version that I got for free). As you can see, I don't really like phones, and I don't buy new ones until I absolutely need to.
I'm not a fan of phones either. That's why I bought a Google Pixel when my iPhone went EOL (longest life of all Android phones, comparable to iPhones, for much cheaper), flashed GrapheneOS on it, installed as few apps as possible, and leave it plugged into the charger most of the time. It's precisely because I don't like phones that I want something with minimal fuss. GrapheneOS is as good a compromise between free software and usability I think I'm going to get right now. Only three of my apps are from Google Play; the rest I get from Github and the like via Obtainium.
And just for some levity: https://youtu.be/qBHgJx_rb8E
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Quoting: pleasereadthemanualAmazon takes 75%, for those curious, and 60% if you agree to make your audiobook exclusive to Audible. This is before the publisher even takes their cut.
QuoteIt's actually generally considered pretty good deal, the audiobook stuff is.Brandon Sanderson on Audible, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C59eOLX2K-A&t=2106
You come off pretty well. You may earn a little bit less. […] The money is not as good as print but that's because they also have to hire all these people to do these wonderful audiobooks and a lot of money is going to them as deservedly so. So, you can expect to earn around 2 bucks an audiobook. And that's good money.
If I was doing all the work then I'd take more money, too. Whether it's generally a fair deal is a different question (the lecture is almost ancient) but it's also not generally unfair.
/edit: Published too soon by mistake.
Last edited by poiuz on 17 March 2024 at 2:27 pm UTC
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Quoting: pleasereadthemanualYeah, I don't carry cash either. I pay with my debit card, mostly with its contactless (NFC) payment feature. But I'm sure available payment methods vary by country.Quoting: tuubiYeah, I couldn't do banking on my phone. I wouldn't even want to, but I'm sure that's a blocker for many people. The rest of the stuff on your list (and calendar events, alarms, etc.) are fine.I can't carry around enough cash for all possible purchases (besides, the number of stores even accepting cash is decreasing), so I need an easy way to transfer money quickly. Notifications for unexpected transactions also help me notice fraud more quickly.
The NFC payment feature in my banking app is also handy for reducing fraud, and isn't tied to Apple, Google, Samsung, or god forbid, Meta. Only to my bank, who has all my details and transaction history anyway. Not a requirement, but definite value add.
Quoting: pleasereadthemanualMy phone is also a lot more secure than my computers (my GrapheneOS phone anyway, not my Pinephone), so I can't blame anybody for wanting to do their banking on a phone. Despite my distaste for phones, that's not a point I can even debate.So I won't debate. I simply have a hard time trusting a phone any better than I trust the browser on my Linux desktop.
Quoting: pleasereadthemanualYeah, Signal can be inconvenient, even if most people only use one phone at a time. The Alien Dalvik Android layer on Sailfish X is pretty seamless though. If apps work, they work pretty well. And most apps I've tried (from F-Droid, mostly) have been fine. Although currently the only Android app I use regularly is an eBook reader.Quoting: tuubiSignal's official Android app worked fine on my Sailfish phone (using the inbuilt Android compatibility layer) when I tried it, except that it couldn't access my contacts. There's also a native client called Whisperfish that's still a bit janky but it mostly does the job. Same goes for Telegram: The official Android app works fine, and so does the slightly stripped down version on F-Droid, but I use a native FOSS client called Fernschreiber to chat to my Telegram contacts. But only if I'm not near a computer. I like a proper keyboard.The problem is, Signal requires me to have one phone and only one phone. You can only have one primary phone, and you can't transfer message history (easily), and it's all a big pain. I've heard Waydroid takes upwards of 7 minutes to startup on a Pinephone. Even if it worked (I tried Axolotl a few years ago, it did not work), I'm just not willing to disable one device so I can only use it on another. And the fact that I even feel I need a "backup phone" is reason enough not to do it. That's Signal's fault, but it is the biggest blocker for me. I'm glad it works for you.
Quoting: pleasereadthemanualI despise typing on a phone. Everything about it is awful. But, well, sometimes I don't have a keyboard near me, or need to call someone when I'm out.Same. I actively avoid chatting and writing emails on a phone. I also actively avoid phone calls, but that has nothing to do with the operating systems. I just don't like talking on the phone.
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pleasereadthemanual Mar 17
Quoting: poiuzThose are revenue shares for any audiobooks you do that you want to put on Audible, including your own. I don't know what the deal is with Audible Originals. There's an argument to be made that there are much larger files involved than ebooks (about 100-200 times larger, in some cases), but that's still incredibly cutthroat. Audible can demand that because everyone uses Audible for audiobooks. Where else are you going to go?Quoting: pleasereadthemanualAmazon takes 75%, for those curious, and 60% if you agree to make your audiobook exclusive to Audible. This is before the publisher even takes their cut.
QuoteIt's actually generally considered pretty good deal, the audiobook stuff is.Brandon Sanderson on Audible, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C59eOLX2K-A&t=2106
You come off pretty well. You may earn a little bit less. […] The money is not as good as print but that's because they also have to hire all these people to do these wonderful audiobooks and a lot of money is going to them as deservedly so. So, you can expect to earn around 2 bucks an audiobook. And that's good money.
If I was doing all the work then I'd take more money, too. Whether it's generally a fair deal is a different question (the lecture is almost ancient) but it's also not generally unfair.
/edit: Published too soon by mistake.
The publisher that pays for the audiobook to be done (either in-house or contracted out from a studio Audible has no ties with) gets 25-40% of the revenue, as compared to 70% on Kindle. You have more options for ebooks. Way more options. Apple Books is probably the most profitable store, actually.
Edit: I've watched the bit of the lecture you linked. Yes, Brandon's argument that you have a captive audience is a good one. Audible's monopoly on audiobooks means that, despite earning a lot less, you can expect to make more sales than selling direct on your publisher's site, for example.
If you had the marketing budget, would it be more effective advertising on Amazon to get more Audible sales, or more effective driving traffic to your own site and getting 100% of the revenue? Would advertising on Amazon get you 4 sales for every 1 sale you get driving traffic to your site? Bit of a tough question without analytics, but i don't think it's quite 4 times as much in most cases. But if you exclusively sell on Amazon and get the 60-40 revenue share? Well, then Audible starts to make more sense...
The downside, of course, is that you can't sell DRM-free audiobooks on Audible. So you could screw over your customers by taking the exclusive deal and not offering them a DRM-free version on the publisher's site, and possibly make more money, reinforcing Audible's monopoly.
Last edited by pleasereadthemanual on 17 March 2024 at 3:04 pm UTC
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Quoting: pleasereadthemanualWhen it comes to concentrated evil, it is hard to beat Amazon. They seem to work very hard at it.Quoting: 1430%? Now, let's talk about Audible....Amazon takes 75%, for those curious, and 60% if you agree to make your audiobook exclusive to Audible. This is before the publisher even takes their cut.
2 Likes, Who?
Quoting: pleasereadthemanualThe basic problem comes down to monopoly. Something should be done about that problem. On this topic a good read is Rebecca Giblin and Cory Doctorow's "Chokepoint Capitalism".Quoting: poiuzThose are revenue shares for any audiobooks you do that you want to put on Audible, including your own. I don't know what the deal is with Audible Originals. There's an argument to be made that there are much larger files involved than ebooks (about 100-200 times larger, in some cases), but that's still incredibly cutthroat. Audible can demand that because everyone uses Audible for audiobooks. Where else are you going to go?Quoting: pleasereadthemanualAmazon takes 75%, for those curious, and 60% if you agree to make your audiobook exclusive to Audible. This is before the publisher even takes their cut.
QuoteIt's actually generally considered pretty good deal, the audiobook stuff is.Brandon Sanderson on Audible, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C59eOLX2K-A&t=2106
You come off pretty well. You may earn a little bit less. […] The money is not as good as print but that's because they also have to hire all these people to do these wonderful audiobooks and a lot of money is going to them as deservedly so. So, you can expect to earn around 2 bucks an audiobook. And that's good money.
If I was doing all the work then I'd take more money, too. Whether it's generally a fair deal is a different question (the lecture is almost ancient) but it's also not generally unfair.
/edit: Published too soon by mistake.
The publisher that pays for the audiobook to be done (either in-house or contracted out from a studio Audible has no ties with) gets 25-40% of the revenue, as compared to 70% on Kindle. You have more options for ebooks. Way more options. Apple Books is probably the most profitable store, actually.
Edit: I've watched the bit of the lecture you linked. Yes, Brandon's argument that you have a captive audience is a good one. Audible's monopoly on audiobooks means that, despite earning a lot less, you can expect to make more sales than selling direct on your publisher's site, for example.
If you had the marketing budget, would it be more effective advertising on Amazon to get more Audible sales, or more effective driving traffic to your own site and getting 100% of the revenue? Would advertising on Amazon get you 4 sales for every 1 sale you get driving traffic to your site? Bit of a tough question without analytics, but i don't think it's quite 4 times as much in most cases. But if you exclusively sell on Amazon and get the 60-40 revenue share? Well, then Audible starts to make more sense...
The downside, of course, is that you can't sell DRM-free audiobooks on Audible. So you could screw over your customers by taking the exclusive deal and not offering them a DRM-free version on the publisher's site, and possibly make more money, reinforcing Audible's monopoly.
1 Likes, Who?
pleasereadthemanual Mar 18
Quoting: Purple Library GuyThe basic problem comes down to monopoly. Something should be done about that problem. On this topic a good read is Rebecca Giblin and Cory Doctorow's "Chokepoint Capitalism".I'm a fan of Cory Doctorow. Unauthorized Bread has been my favorite of his since pretty much when it was out. I'll have to get to Chokepoint Capitalism eventually.
Cory Doctorow has also written about Audible: https://www.brandonsanderson.com/guest-editorial-cory-doctorow-is-a-bestselling-author-but-audible-wont-carry-his-audiobooks/
I see that the chapter I listened to was actually an excerpt from Chokepoint Capitalism. All the more reason to buy that book sometime soon (I'm still listening to Little Brother).
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