In the ongoing saga of the Wolfire versus Valve lawsuit, which is continuing, we've been able to see a funny little look behind the curtain and Tim Sweeney was not happy with Valve.
Thanks to the work from Simon Carless of GameDiscoverCo which has a great round-up of what's going on (definitely worth a read for some backstory here), we've managed to see some emails between Epic's Tim Sweeney to Valve's Gabe Newell and Scott Lynch.
Back in 2017 an email from Newell to Sweeney asked "Anything we doing to annoy you? We’re guessing Sean Jenkins public dumbness might be part of it.", which is in reference to a leaked post where a Valve's Jenkins talked about restricting Steam keys. Sweeney replied to mention they've "never heard of Sean Jenkins" and then goes off talking about the 30% platform fee Valve charges and how it's "no longer justifiable" but there was a "good case for them in the early days" but due to scale costs "have been driven down".
Sweeney's point here is that Valve make a lot of money from that 30% cut and goes on to say "If you subtract out the top 25 games on Steam, I bet Valve made more profit from most of the next 1000 than the developer themselves made" and complains that when you add together Valve's cut, marketing and so on that the cut for developers is small.
After that we don't see anything until November 2018 in the documents where Sweeney emailed Newell again and also Valve's Erik Johnson, notifying Valve about the plans to announce the Epic Games Store with their lower cut of sales from developers. Sweeney also mentions here about their issues with Apple, and how Sweeney wants Apple to open up, and hopes that Valve would make a "timely move" to change their rates taken from developers. Sweeney also notes the opposite, hoping Valve don't have any "unannounced revenue-sharing changes that favored big publishers over indies" as it would basically tell the likes of Apple that they "can keep their closed platforms and just pay off big publishers to stay silent".
It was only a few days later (quite cheekily then), that Valve suddenly publicly announced their plan to reduce their take for the top-selling Steam games. Naturally, this annoyed Sweeney rather a lot, as the next email confirmed the Epic Games Store announcement was going live the next day and Sweeney says to Valve "Right now, you assholes are telling the world that the strong and powerful get special terms, while 30% is for the little people. We're all in for a prolonged battle if Apple tries to keep their monopoly and 30% by cutting backroom deals with big publishers to keep them quiet. Why not give ALL developers a better deal? What better way is there to convince Apple quickly that their model is now totally untenable?".
The only reply to this we can see was from Valve COO (Chief Operating Officer) Scott Lynch sent internally at Valve to Johnson and Newell that simply says "You mad bro?".
You can only imagine how truly mad Sweeney would be if they saw that with Valve just basically laughing it off completely. Well, Sweeney can see it now.
As we know from Valve when they released their 2023 yearly report, they're continuing to print money and repeatedly break user records and so the Epic Games Store hasn't seemingly made much of a dent at all. While Epic Games continue to try to pull developers over to their store with various exclusivity deals and constant weekly free games.
Update note: Clarified the "You mad bro?" email was internal at Valve, not to Sweeney directly.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
Quoting: ToddLIf only GOG had the same amount of games that Steam has would there be good competition. Too bad they have a fraction of the Steam library of games but their DRM-free feature is pretty nice though
That's what I mean! Selling games that are free from DRM is a compelling feature! And in fact, I have spent money in GoG's store. I haven't bought a single game in EGS.
ElectricPrism Mar 14
Quoting: WORMThat's what I mean! Selling games that are free from DRM is a compelling feature! And in fact, I have spent money in GoG's store. I haven't bought a single game in EGS.
Agree. I have purchased games on Steam, gifted copies to friends and family on Steam of the same game and bought the same game on GOG simply because it's DRM-free.
I'm not even sure if I really see GOG as a competitor since they are selling a different thing.
I hope to see GOG grow, but as good as Minigalaxy (3rd party app) is, I would really like to see a official storefront someday. I can forgive those flaws for now since they are in a class of 1.
Quoting: WORMSweeney is correct. Valve's cut was (and is, to a slightly lesser extent) quite greedy
Quite the opposite actually. Madbro literally proved to the world that 30% is the right cut. He has shown with his own very feats that it is not possible to offer a better service than Steam with a lower cut. At this point any smart developer should rally behind Valve. In a PC market dominated by EGS the only way to prevent people from returning to the high seas is to hand out games for free. And even then it's arguable that in between the two options EGS is where the better customer experience is.
Quoting: MalQuite the opposite actually. Madbro literally proved to the world that 30% is the right cut. He has shown with his own very feats that it is not possible to offer a better service than Steam with a lower cut. At this point any smart developer should rally behind Valve.
I disagree. Steam has shown that it IS possible to offer a better service while taking a smaller cut, since that's absolutely what they did themselves!
Comandante Ñoñardo Mar 14
Quoting: bisbyxProton-GE has fixes in it to apply to EGS. EGS is only usable on linux because of Valve (and Mr Eggroll, but either way, not Epic themselves).
Well, actually Epic Game Store is "officially" supported in Lutris
Even Epic made an important donation to Lutris in 2019
ElectricPrism Mar 14
Quoting: MalMadbro literally proved to the world that 30% is the right cut. He has shown with his own very feats that it is not possible to offer a better service than Steam with a lower cut. At this point any smart developer should rally behind Valve. In a PC market dominated by EGS the only way to prevent people from returning to the high seas is to hand out games for free.
Two Great Points, to distill them into other words:
A. The Market has decided that 30% is acceptable for the value exchanged.
B. Piracy is a Service Problem, and EGS can only compete with "The High Seas" by trying to give away games for free.
--
I legit think that there are entities that are just mad that Valve is not a public traded company and can't be easily corrupted or remotely influenced/controlled.
We learned this week from Sweet Baby Inc being kicked off Steam for extortion and subsequent GlowFeds going after Valve for it that there are powers who are angry and want to dictate what games you get to play. I wouldn't mid a article or two sourcing these events in a factual fashion.
"30% is too much!"
So don't put your games on Steam.
"But our games don't sell off Steam!"
Gee, I wonder why?
This has to be one of the most brain-dead arguments I've ever heard. No, Valve doesn't have to take 30%. They could take 10% if they wanted. Or 90%. Or anything in between. It is the most basic economics. They take what the market will bear. If 30% was too much, they would be forced to lower it just to compete. If it was too little they would have either been ran over by a more expensive, and more feature rich, competitor, or gone bankrupt. Likewise, if they took 30% but didn't reinvest it into their product, they wouldn't be where they are now. It isn't black magic, corporate fascism, nostalgia, market dominance, or any other bunk explanation for why Steam is the absolute king of PC gaming. Make what people want. Value what you create and strive to make it better. Pride, gluttony, and greed aren't what destroy you, it is the lack of the corresponding virtues, humility, temperance, and generosity. Yes, Valve is greedy. They have also done more for gaming than any other company in the last 10-20 years.
Quoting: MalEhhh, Sweeney just proved that he can't or won't do it. That doesn't make it impossible, since my impression is that he is neither competent nor motivated. In theory, somebody with competence and motivation (and a stack of money) could offer a good service with a lower cut. It just ain't gonna be Sweeney.Quoting: WORMSweeney is correct. Valve's cut was (and is, to a slightly lesser extent) quite greedy
Quite the opposite actually. Madbro literally proved to the world that 30% is the right cut. He has shown with his own very feats that it is not possible to offer a better service than Steam with a lower cut.
Patreon
PayPal
See more from me