A little break in the gaming news for a moment to mention that Zed, a "high-performance, multiplayer code editor from the creators of Atom and Tree-sitter", now has a Linux version available.
Something many have been wanting, because of how popular it is. Previously only officially available for macOS, the developers are not yet even providing official builds for Windows (but it can be built from source).
Announced via their blog in the "Linux when? Linux now." post, it included a nice thank you note about how vital the community has been in pushing the rapid development of the Linux build.
It has some of the fanciest sounding features I've ever read for a code editor. Built like a video game as they said: "Zed’s breakthrough performance starts with our GPUI framework, a new way to build 2D user interfaces. GPUI rasterizes the entire window on the GPU, just like a 3D video game. The result? Fast, reliable, and smooth delivery of pixels on every frame.".
Not just that, it's built for collaboration too with a virtual office system with different channels, shared documents for notes, audio and text-based chat and so on. So, it sounds like an open-source Discord for programmers in a way.
See more on the official website.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Having tried it, it was pretty slow compared to other editors I've used. The fonts are also quite blurry, it's full of AI stuff 
, it looks like Mac app even on Linux, has some weird Mac keyboard symbols for shortcuts, there's no debugger support...
I know it's just first release on Linux and I hope it gets better, but for now I saw no reason to use it over Kate or Helix.
You can luckily toggle off the AI bullshit from the settings but it being plastered everywhere really tells me who the audience is, and I don't think it's me. Also they seemed to equate Git with Github, because only Github services were supported.
On positive side though, it was very easy to get going with it and the config, while being editing json files (why??), was still alright experience.
Edit: https://github.com/zed-industries/zed/issues/12589 oh no
Last edited by akselmo on 11 July 2024 at 10:34 am UTC
, it looks like Mac app even on Linux, has some weird Mac keyboard symbols for shortcuts, there's no debugger support...I know it's just first release on Linux and I hope it gets better, but for now I saw no reason to use it over Kate or Helix.
You can luckily toggle off the AI bullshit from the settings but it being plastered everywhere really tells me who the audience is, and I don't think it's me. Also they seemed to equate Git with Github, because only Github services were supported.
On positive side though, it was very easy to get going with it and the config, while being editing json files (why??), was still alright experience.
Edit: https://github.com/zed-industries/zed/issues/12589 oh no
Last edited by akselmo on 11 July 2024 at 10:34 am UTC
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Wow. Never heard of it. Will definitely give it a try.
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I fell in love with Atom and wrote a few novels with it, plus contributed a decent amount of code. When Microsoft canned it, it was heartbreaking because all my work was basically just canned. Zed looks interesting, but I'm also concerned about their EULA (https://zed.dev/eula) because it implies that they are going the route of some products by having a community edition and a closed-source version, which usually means the community edition gets less features over time and they push the private one more.
And, of course, the network-based services are going to be paid-for:
So, as much as I really want to get into it, to find something that isn't VS Code and can fill the Atom-sized hole in my life, I keep bouncing off those concerns. I'm hoping Eclipse Theia (https://theia-ide.org/) has a chance but I'm just waiting at this point (mainly because I've tried to write a few editors myself and failed).
QuoteZed makes certain versions of the Editor and related software available at the Zed GitHub Repository: https://github.com/zed-industries/zed (the “Repo”). Your use of such software is subject to the open source software licenses declared in the Repo.
And, of course, the network-based services are going to be paid-for:
QuoteIf you have elected to use the Network Based Service by enabling or activating the Network Based Service, Zed will use commercially reasonable efforts to make the Network Based Service available to You as set forth in this Agreement. Once you elected to use the Network Based Service, You may access and use the Network Based Service during the Term, subject to Your compliance with the terms and conditions of the Agreement,
So, as much as I really want to get into it, to find something that isn't VS Code and can fill the Atom-sized hole in my life, I keep bouncing off those concerns. I'm hoping Eclipse Theia (https://theia-ide.org/) has a chance but I'm just waiting at this point (mainly because I've tried to write a few editors myself and failed).
3 Likes, Who?
The one big issue for me that's still left is that it will just download binary blobs from various online places, and do so continuously. It will always update to the latest version of whatever thing it decides it needs. One has no control over it.
So it will always run the latest release at basically all times.
One of the few things that saved us from the XZ disaster was that as a library it took a few weeks to roll out, and that delay allowed someone to notice the behaviour change before it was rolled out everywhere to limit the impact.
So it will always run the latest release at basically all times.
One of the few things that saved us from the XZ disaster was that as a library it took a few weeks to roll out, and that delay allowed someone to notice the behaviour change before it was rolled out everywhere to limit the impact.
2 Likes, Who?
I probably should try it some time to see if there are any features in it I would like to port to Emacs.
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Quoting: dmoonfireAnd, of course, the network-based services are going to be paid-for:How could they not be paid-for?
They certainly cause network traffic. And I don't think they are running on donations.
I gave it a quick glance. Makes a nice first impression, but time will tell if it can actually replace VSCode (I'd sure love to get rid of it eventually).
Last edited by TheSHEEEP on 11 July 2024 at 12:27 pm UTC
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Quoting: TheSHEEEPQuoting: dmoonfireAnd, of course, the network-based services are going to be paid-for:How could they not be paid-for?
They certainly cause network traffic.
As opposed to being self-hosted network services first and happen to have an instance for those who don't want to manage a hosted ve4aion themselves.
There are a number of projects that do that, proved the basic tool as open source but then hardcode/firmly suggest a private, commercial service. Like dolt (OSS) and dolthub (closed). Or VS Code making the C# plugin closed.
I'm fine with projects making money, but I'd rather it be entirely on the side instead of using the OSS project intended to drive the non OSS commercial service.
Zed's EULA suggests to me which is why I'm not comfortable with it.
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Are there any details available how to run the server side parts of this "multiplayer" mode? Or is it all closed-source and they are trying to vendor lock-in people?
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wvstolzing Jul 11
Quoting: akselmoHaving tried it, it was pretty slow compared to other editors I've used. The fonts are also quite blurry, it's full of AI stuff
I know it's just first release on Linux and I hope it gets better, but for now I saw no reason to use it over Kate or Helix.
You can luckily toggle off the AI bullshit from the settings but it being plastered everywhere really tells me who the audience is, and I don't think it's me. Also they seemed to equate Git with Github, because only Github services were supported.
On positive side though, it was very easy to get going with it and the config, while being editing json files (why??), was still alright experience.
Edit: https://github.com/zed-industries/zed/issues/12589 oh no
I got curious & installed it (Arch already has it in the official Extra repo.). My first impressions are pretty much the same.
... not that I'll investigate it any further, but the open project dialog doesn't even show up on my Xfce setup, & the UI gives no clue as to how I could open a file. Drag-drop doesn't work either. So, yeah, I haven't been able to open a file on this thing. The entirely baseless joke about 'exiting vim' can be replaced by 'opening a file in zed' now, I guess -- and it would have a material basis this time around.
QuoteEdit: https://github.com/zed-industries/zed/issues/12589 oh no
-- and their reasoning for doing it this way is ridiculous. If this is a text editor for programmers, maybe it doesn't have to have a 100% no-config ootb experience for all of its functionality; it's not a general-purpose todo app.
1 Likes, Who?
wvstolzing Jul 11
Quoting: tmtvlI probably should try it some time to see if there are any features in it I would like to port to Emacs.
The various emacs packages for git forge integration & llm integration seem to cover a lot of zed's features, though (not sure if this is at all possible), a client for their 'collaboration server' on emacs could be interesting: https://github.com/zed-industries/zed/blob/main/docs/src/development/local-collaboration.md
-- in other news, emacs 30.1 is just around the corner (the NEWS file has an entry for it, though the build still says 30.0.60).
1 Likes, Who?
Quoting: dmoonfireAs opposed to being self-hosted network services first and happen to have an instance for those who don't want to manage a hosted ve4aion themselves.That's still paid-for, you just pay someone else for the hosting, not the editor dev.
Either way, I agree it would be nice if they gave you tools for self-hosting.
Quoting: ShadMessaMultiplayer what's a multiplayer code editor ???Multiple people editing a file at the same time while seeing what the others are doing.
It's been a bit of a fad recently. You know, the kind of thing executives get super giddy about, but most actual developers roll their eyes when they aren't looking ;)
There are of some cases where it can be useful (say debugging an especially nasty bug or ironing out interfaces, etc.).
And it is nice to not have to deal with merge issues in case two people edited the same file at the same time.
But overall I'd say it's a nice little thing, but has the distinct taste of a solution looking for a problem. I've been doing this coding thing for 15+ years and don't think I ever thought "boy, I wish someone else could also edit this file right now".
Plus who the hell wants to have someone else (potentially) looking over their shoulder all the time while coding?
Last edited by TheSHEEEP on 11 July 2024 at 5:20 pm UTC
5 Likes, Who?
wvstolzing Jul 11
Quoting: TheSHEEEPQuoting: dmoonfireAs opposed to being self-hosted network services first and happen to have an instance for those who don't want to manage a hosted ve4aion themselves.That's still paid-for, you just pay someone else for the hosting, not the editor dev.
Quoting: ShadMessaMultiplayer what's a multiplayer code editor ???Multiple people editing a file at the same time while seeing what the others are doing.
It's been a bit of a fad recently. You know, the kind of thing executives get super giddy about, but most actual developers roll their eyes when they aren't looking ;)
There are of some cases where it can be useful (say debugging an especially nasty bug or ironing out interfaces, etc.).
And it is nice to not have to deal with merge issues in case two people edited the same file at the same time.
But overall I'd say it's a nice little thing, but has the distinct taste of a solution looking for a problem. I've been doing this coding thing for 15+ years and don't think I ever thought "boy, I wish someone else could also edit this file right now".
Plus who the hell wants to have someone else (potentially) looking over their shoulder all the time while coding?
There's this new latex alternative markup language for scientific papers: https://typst.app/ -- it also comes with a collaborative web app, etc. The demo video on the webpage is absolutely hilarious IMHO. It supposedly shows a bunch of people 'collaborating' on a document. Though all I see is people editing out their peer's words in real time in a way that resembles the 'DUCK SEASON / RABBIT SEASON' bit from Bugs Bunny.
4 Likes, Who?
Philadelphus Jul 11
"Multiplayer" and "code editor" are two terms I admittedly would not have associated on my own, as a programmer for over a decade. 
Not saying it can't work, and I'd even be interested in trying it, but:
Not saying it can't work, and I'd even be interested in trying it, but:Quoting: akselmoEdit: https://github.com/zed-industries/zed/issues/12589 oh noOh, yikes. That's just asking for a supply chain attack.
Quoting: wvstolzingThere's this new latex alternative markup language for scientific papers: https://typst.app/ -- it also comes with a collaborative web app, etc. The demo video on the webpage is absolutely hilarious IMHO. It supposedly shows a bunch of people 'collaborating' on a document. Though all I see is people editing out their peer's words in real time in a way that resembles the 'DUCK SEASON / RABBIT SEASON' bit from Bugs Bunny.I keep meaning to check out Typst and haven't gotten around to it. Will be interesting to see how well it can actually replace LaTeX. There's a similar platform called Overleaf that allows collaboration on LaTeX documents which I used to write my thesis. The issue with such collaborative editing, in my experience, is that for any piece of writing there's always one person who does at least 90% of the work of actually getting words out, and the collaboration is limited to every other co-author doing minor edits or making suggestions. It's hard for me to imagine a scenario where multiple people get together to actually write something at the same time, other than, like, a brainstorming session.
2 Likes, Who?
ElectricPrism Jul 11
Quoting: dmoonfire[...] Atom [...] contributed a decent amount of code. When Microsoft canned it, it was heartbreaking because all my work was basically just canned.
Sorry for your loss, I remember being extremely unpopular 5 or 10 years ago warning everyone during the "Microsoft <3 Linux" phase, that based on decades of behavior [ Eg: SCO vs Novell Linux lawsuit funded by Microsoft ], Microsoft was still the same.
It hurts to find out first hand. The buying of Github, I feel bad for MineCraft fans. It was already bad enough Microsoft bought out Halo when it was already a Mac-first game around Y2K.
Sucks. But I'm glad people see it now and are not going to be surprised when they try to pull leverage in The Linux Foundation and all their bureaucracies to get the insider scoop and hurt us more.
Hell they ripped off KDE Plasma theme, Workspaces, it'll be funny to see what they rip of next -- Scrolling Tiling Window Management? Thieves.
Peak Microsoft.
3 Likes, Who?
ElectricPrism Jul 11
To go along with @akselmo and @wvstolzing -- my experience was poor too.
I can't even launch it on Arch Linux & Sway.
I have 0 interest in "AI" in my editor -- that's just a buzz word like "The Cloud" where it means everything will be enshitified.
"Multiplayer"? What is "Multiplayer"? Like "Multi-user" -- it feels juvenile. old_man_yelling_at_clouds.jpg
To their credit I am very interested in that it is made in Rust.
Hit that nail on the head. I don't think the audience is me either -- I'm not a l33t teen coder looking to show off -- but to their credit maybe that is the strategic market to appeal to who knows SMS.
The GitHub = Git thing is absolutely daft, tonedeaf and ludicrous.
I'm cool with the JSON thing, probably because I haven't actually seen another configuration format that I feel is better than JSON is easy to parse with jq in scripts. I feel like JSON is Gen 2 of configuration formatting, and I can't wait to se what Gen 3 is. YAML?
Zed downloads NodeJS binary and npm packages from Internet without user’s consent #12589
LMAO. NGL that's pretty funny. What a mess.
I know this is a little judgemental and may be a bit premature as it will take time to see -- but they are reminding me of Manjaro a bit.
This bug precisely underscores why a lot of folk like to use old tried and true things instead of "The New Shiny".
Me personally, I don't have the time I used to have to delve into new software daily. The $99 I paid for Sublime Text already paid off in multiples due to time saved.
Atom Editor used to open waaaaayyyy to slowwww. Sublime was faster, and I could easily open 100 - 1,000 files or even a PHP Project with 10k files when I needed to a recursive Find & Replace.
I am willing to give Zed some slack, some good will (for now), while they get it together because they are new and interesting, but so far it seems like they are off to a cold start.
I will credit them with any innovations they coin if other editors copy them too. We'll see -- hopefully they are not full Manjaro.
I can't even launch it on Arch Linux & Sway.
I have 0 interest in "AI" in my editor -- that's just a buzz word like "The Cloud" where it means everything will be enshitified.
"Multiplayer"? What is "Multiplayer"? Like "Multi-user" -- it feels juvenile. old_man_yelling_at_clouds.jpg
To their credit I am very interested in that it is made in Rust.
Quoting: akselmoYou can luckily toggle off the AI bullshit from the settings but it being plastered everywhere really tells me who the audience is, and I don't think it's me. Also they seemed to equate Git with Github, because only Github services were supported.
Hit that nail on the head. I don't think the audience is me either -- I'm not a l33t teen coder looking to show off -- but to their credit maybe that is the strategic market to appeal to who knows SMS.
The GitHub = Git thing is absolutely daft, tonedeaf and ludicrous.
Quoting: akselmoOn positive side though, it was very easy to get going with it and the config, while being editing json files (why??), was still alright experience.
I'm cool with the JSON thing, probably because I haven't actually seen another configuration format that I feel is better than JSON is easy to parse with jq in scripts. I feel like JSON is Gen 2 of configuration formatting, and I can't wait to se what Gen 3 is. YAML?
Quoting: akselmoEdit: https://github.com/zed-industries/zed/issues/12589 oh no
Zed downloads NodeJS binary and npm packages from Internet without user’s consent #12589
LMAO. NGL that's pretty funny. What a mess.
I know this is a little judgemental and may be a bit premature as it will take time to see -- but they are reminding me of Manjaro a bit.
This bug precisely underscores why a lot of folk like to use old tried and true things instead of "The New Shiny".
Me personally, I don't have the time I used to have to delve into new software daily. The $99 I paid for Sublime Text already paid off in multiples due to time saved.
Atom Editor used to open waaaaayyyy to slowwww. Sublime was faster, and I could easily open 100 - 1,000 files or even a PHP Project with 10k files when I needed to a recursive Find & Replace.
I am willing to give Zed some slack, some good will (for now), while they get it together because they are new and interesting, but so far it seems like they are off to a cold start.
I will credit them with any innovations they coin if other editors copy them too. We'll see -- hopefully they are not full Manjaro.
0 Likes
Quoting: TheSHEEEPQuoting: ShadMessaMultiplayer what's a multiplayer code editor ???Multiple people editing a file at the same time while seeing what the others are doing.
It's been a bit of a fad recently. You know, the kind of thing executives get super giddy about, but most actual developers roll their eyes when they aren't looking ;)
There are of some cases where it can be useful (say debugging an especially nasty bug or ironing out interfaces, etc.).
And it is nice to not have to deal with merge issues in case two people edited the same file at the same time.
But overall I'd say it's a nice little thing, but has the distinct taste of a solution looking for a problem. I've been doing this coding thing for 15+ years and don't think I ever thought "boy, I wish someone else could also edit this file right now".
Plus who the hell wants to have someone else (potentially) looking over their shoulder all the time while coding?
I would agree that it sounds good on paper, if git + a simple discord call wasn't a thing.
Last edited by ShadMessa on 11 July 2024 at 8:25 pm UTC
1 Likes, Who?
Quoting: wvstolzingQuoting: TheSHEEEPQuoting: dmoonfireAs opposed to being self-hosted network services first and happen to have an instance for those who don't want to manage a hosted ve4aion themselves.That's still paid-for, you just pay someone else for the hosting, not the editor dev.
Quoting: ShadMessaMultiplayer what's a multiplayer code editor ???Multiple people editing a file at the same time while seeing what the others are doing.
It's been a bit of a fad recently. You know, the kind of thing executives get super giddy about, but most actual developers roll their eyes when they aren't looking ;)
There are of some cases where it can be useful (say debugging an especially nasty bug or ironing out interfaces, etc.).
And it is nice to not have to deal with merge issues in case two people edited the same file at the same time.
But overall I'd say it's a nice little thing, but has the distinct taste of a solution looking for a problem. I've been doing this coding thing for 15+ years and don't think I ever thought "boy, I wish someone else could also edit this file right now".
Plus who the hell wants to have someone else (potentially) looking over their shoulder all the time while coding?
There's this new latex alternative markup language for scientific papers: https://typst.app/ -- it also comes with a collaborative web app, etc. The demo video on the webpage is absolutely hilarious IMHO. It supposedly shows a bunch of people 'collaborating' on a document. Though all I see is people editing out their peer's words in real time in a way that resembles the 'DUCK SEASON / RABBIT SEASON' bit from Bugs Bunny.
No mathematician will EVER use a "multiplayer" editor for their papers. I know people who don't even use a connected device.
2 Likes, Who?
wvstolzing Jul 11
Quoting: ShadMessaQuoting: wvstolzingQuoting: TheSHEEEPQuoting: dmoonfireAs opposed to being self-hosted network services first and happen to have an instance for those who don't want to manage a hosted ve4aion themselves.That's still paid-for, you just pay someone else for the hosting, not the editor dev.
Quoting: ShadMessaMultiplayer what's a multiplayer code editor ???Multiple people editing a file at the same time while seeing what the others are doing.
It's been a bit of a fad recently. You know, the kind of thing executives get super giddy about, but most actual developers roll their eyes when they aren't looking ;)
There are of some cases where it can be useful (say debugging an especially nasty bug or ironing out interfaces, etc.).
And it is nice to not have to deal with merge issues in case two people edited the same file at the same time.
But overall I'd say it's a nice little thing, but has the distinct taste of a solution looking for a problem. I've been doing this coding thing for 15+ years and don't think I ever thought "boy, I wish someone else could also edit this file right now".
Plus who the hell wants to have someone else (potentially) looking over their shoulder all the time while coding?
There's this new latex alternative markup language for scientific papers: https://typst.app/ -- it also comes with a collaborative web app, etc. The demo video on the webpage is absolutely hilarious IMHO. It supposedly shows a bunch of people 'collaborating' on a document. Though all I see is people editing out their peer's words in real time in a way that resembles the 'DUCK SEASON / RABBIT SEASON' bit from Bugs Bunny.
No mathematician will EVER use a "multiplayer" editor for their papers. I know people who don't even use a connected device.
Right, just as course assistants & professors are loath to use the course management software they sell universities, and supposedly 'upgrade' year after year with pointless features. When I was a course assistant we only ever used it to enter grades at the end of the term -- otherwise email, & the 'track changes' feature on the word processor sufficed perfectly well for all our needs.
2 Likes, Who?
It seems like an interesting editor until you start looking into it;
- AI everywhere
- Remote development runs through their servers instead of doing something sensible like using a direct ssh connection between client and host
i mean vscode is also getting infected with AI everywhere, but atleast remote dev doesn't run though a 3rd party server (yet)
- AI everywhere
- Remote development runs through their servers instead of doing something sensible like using a direct ssh connection between client and host
i mean vscode is also getting infected with AI everywhere, but atleast remote dev doesn't run though a 3rd party server (yet)
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