Back in April 2024, I wrote about the Stop Killing Games initiative from Ross at Accursed Farms. Now, it's heading to the European Union with a European Citizens' Initiative you can give you vote to. Sorry fellow Brits, but thanks to Brexit we can't get involved in this. If you're part of the European Union though, you can now truly try and make your voice count.
As a reminder on what it's all about from the ECI:
This initiative calls to require publishers that sell or license videogames to consumers in the European Union (or related features and assets sold for videogames they operate) to leave said videogames in a functional (playable) state.
Specifically, the initiative seeks to prevent the remote disabling of videogames by the publishers, before providing reasonable means to continue functioning of said videogames without the involvement from the side of the publisher.
The initiative does not seek to acquire ownership of said videogames, associated intellectual rights or monetization rights, neither does it expect the publisher to provide resources for the said videogame once they discontinue it while leaving it in a reasonably functional (playable) state.
It's a worthy cause, because some publishers do have a habit of shutting down games when they move on, leaving players with nothing to show for it even though they paid for it. Games that contain a single-player element especially should always have an option to let you continue on. It's a bit more complicated for online-only games, say for those that have micro-transactions and battle passes, but still you're often spending a whole lot of your money to be again left with nothing.
Check out the initiative and give your vote. See more on the Stop Killing Games website.
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Some you may have missed, popular articles from the last month:
Mountain Man Aug 2
Quoting: Deleted_UserYou can't expect the entire global software industry to suddenly go open source just because some gamers in Europe have their noses out of joint. It's never going to happen. And that's not even considering the fact that a lot of developers use licensed intellectual property, music, and artwork in their games that they can't simply give away. You say it's not the consumer's problem, but it is, and they already have 100% control over the situation: If you have any concern whatsoever that an online service for a game might be discontinued at some point in the future, then don't buy that game.Quoting: Mountain ManAssuming it's not proprietary or licensed. That's one part of this debate that is never considered, that developers may not legally be able to release their games for free.I don't see why this should be the consumers problem instead of the developers. If a legislation is enacted according to the initiave, than such kind of licensing isn't the way to go (within EU) anymore, so what? THEN the market could sort out the rest.
To be frank, if the government takes up this cause and passes legislation saying that companies must make their games available to consumers in perpetuity, then I can see a lot of developers and publishers deciding that the EU market isn't worth the trouble.
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Quoting: Mountain ManTo be frank, if the government takes up this cause and passes legislation saying that companies must make their games available to consumers in perpetuity, then I can see a lot of developers and publishers deciding that the EU market isn't worth the trouble.Easy to see you didn't read the initiative. Or even the article. And that you're not European. You just want to knee-jerk about regulation being bad.
Businesses will not simply give up a big chunk of their customer base just because they don't get to make up the rules as they go. They keep threatening to, but they just don't. They're not in it for the ideology after all.
3 Likes, Who?
Mountain Man Aug 2
Quoting: tuubiYou're right that I'm not European, but I am familiar with this initiative and its pipe dream goals of essentially strong arming game developers into releasing their products for free after there is no longer a viable market for them, and I can tell you right now, that's never going to happen.Quoting: Mountain ManTo be frank, if the government takes up this cause and passes legislation saying that companies must make their games available to consumers in perpetuity, then I can see a lot of developers and publishers deciding that the EU market isn't worth the trouble.Easy to see you didn't read the initiative. Or even the article. And that you're not European. You just want to knee-jerk about regulation being bad.
Businesses will not simply give up a big chunk of their customer base just because they don't get to make up the rules as they go. They keep threatening to, but they just don't. They're not in it for the ideology after all.
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Quoting: Mountain ManI am familiar with this initiative and its pipe dream goals of essentially strong arming game developers into releasing their products for free after there is no longer a viable market for themDoesn't seem like you are familiar with it, seeing as it doesn't try to force anyone to release anything for free. At least read the three paragraph quote in the article before you build up any more straw men.
6 Likes, Who?
Caldathras Aug 2
Pro-consumer initiatives put forward by the EU in the past have positively impacted the global market. I might live in North America, but I am definitely rooting for the EU citizens and their efforts to bring this to pass.
4 Likes, Who?
Mountain Man Aug 2
Quoting: tuubiI did read the article, as well as previous articles about this initiative, and I stand by my comment. What they're demanding is simply not realistic and will most likely encourage developers and publishers out of the European market, or perhaps release special "EU Exclusive" titles that are basically crippled out of the box.Quoting: Mountain ManI am familiar with this initiative and its pipe dream goals of essentially strong arming game developers into releasing their products for free after there is no longer a viable market for themDoesn't seem like you are familiar with it, seeing as it doesn't try to force anyone to release anything for free. At least read the three paragraph quote in the article before you build up any more straw men.
As I said, the power already rests in the hands of the consumers. If you don't like that a game could be "remotely disabled" (talk about a straw man!), then don't buy it. It's as simple as that. No heavy-handed government involvement necessary.
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Kimyrielle Aug 2
Quoting: CaldathrasPro-consumer initiatives put forward by the EU in the past have positively impacted the global market. I might live in North America, but I am definitely rooting for the EU citizens and their efforts to bring this to pass.
Same. If the EU forces studios to release server software etc., it's not that we wouldn't be able to download it from our side of the pond :D
1 Likes, Who?
Kimyrielle Aug 2
Quoting: Mountain ManWhat they're demanding is simply not realistic and will most likely encourage developers and publishers out of the European market, or perhaps release special "EU Exclusive" titles that are basically crippled out of the box.
As I said, the power already rests in the hands of the consumers. If you don't like that a game could be "remotely disabled" (talk about a straw man!), then don't buy it. It's as simple as that. No heavy-handed government involvement necessary.
It might not go anywhere, but not for the reason you stated. I frankly don't understand which part of "release the server software and/or remove the DRM when you're commercially done with a game" isn't 'realistic'. Of course it is, and it would cost studios near nothing to publish the required components when they stop monetizing a game.
The reason why it won't happen is more like because governments don't care enough, or don't want to interfere with the Holy Free Market, and not because it couldn't be done.
3 Likes, Who?
Quoting: Mountain ManWhat they're demanding is simply not realistic and will most likely encourage developers and publishers out of the European market, or perhaps release special "EU Exclusive" titles that are basically crippled out of the box.I suppose it might happen some day. Although if a dev/publisher does something like that, I bet they'll lose way more than just EU customers due to the backlash. The gamble seems worth it to me. You might sympathise with corporations over gamers, but it's not European gamers versus the rest, as evidenced by the comments here alone.
3 Likes, Who?
Nateman1000 Aug 3
Quoting: KimyrielleLegally, I can't see initiatives like this going anywhere. Our society seems to ban undesirable business practices only when people start dying, and otherwise let "the market" sort it out. In other words, do nothing and let businesses screw their customers for fun and profit.
That being said, maybe it will create some public pressure on studios that this practice is considered unacceptable by their customers and they need to do better.
I would sign it if I could, but I am not in the EU. I hope everyone there does, though! :)
The way European Citizen’s Initiatives work is if it gets 1 million signatures the EU parliament has to vote on the proposal. And the EU has been pushing for pro consumer tech regulations. They’re why apple finally caved to allow USB C and RCS.
1 Likes, Who?
benstor214 Aug 4
Quoting: Mountain ManYou can't expect the entire global software industry to suddenly go open source just because some gamers in Europe have their noses out of joint."You can't expect the entire global smartphone industry to suddenly go USB-C just because some customers in Europe have their noses out of joint."
Quoting: macrumors.comWhy Apple Adopted USB-Csource: https://www.macrumors.com/guide/usb-c-iphone/
The European Union instituted legislation mandating that electronic devices like smartphones use a "common port," which the EU established was the USB-C port.
Why are you so pro-corporations/anti-consumers?
Last edited by benstor214 on 4 August 2024 at 8:58 pm UTC
2 Likes, Who?
Quoting: Mountain ManYou can't expect the entire global software industry to suddenly go open sourceNeither I nor the Initiative asked for something like that. The bare minimum ist that software that was already purchased will remain functional or give the customer the ability to run the necessary infrastructure. At no point the text says something about making intellectual property open source.
It is of course possible to agree in the contract between the developer and the artist that all rights revert to the artist at the end of the distribution phase of the game. The artist can then pursue all copyright infringements outside of the customer's purchase agreement.
Quotelicensed intellectual property, music, and artwork in their games that they can't simply give away.And nobody said something like that.
QuoteYou say it's not the consumer's problem, but it is,I said it shouldn't, but at least for the last part we can agree.
Quoteand they already have 100% control over the situation: If you have any concern whatsoever that an online service for a game might be discontinued at some point in the future, then don't buy that game.That's the opposite of control. In fact this argument applies to all sorts of fraudulent sales, since you were not forced to buy any fake products.
QuoteTo be frank, if the government takes up this cause and passes legislation saying that companies must make their games available to consumers in perpetuity, then I can see a lot of developers and publishers deciding that the EU market isn't worth the trouble.Yeah, we heard it all before, in every discussion from consumer rights to data privacy/protection. I don't fear any of this.
Edit: You know man, i hope you will never be in the situation where your car gets unusable because of licensing of software and stuff. But of course you could easily avoid such a thing by not purchasing a car in the first place.
Last edited by Deleted_User on 5 August 2024 at 9:22 am UTC
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robertosf92 Aug 5
Reading the comments, it seems weird to me that people yell, regulation! at something like this, when the "intellectual property" is a form of regulation in the first place.
I'm not particularly fond of regulation, because i think it's mostly patching the symptoms rather than treating the cause (usually state-enforced monopolies like "intellectual property")
Last edited by robertosf92 on 5 August 2024 at 10:56 am UTC
I'm not particularly fond of regulation, because i think it's mostly patching the symptoms rather than treating the cause (usually state-enforced monopolies like "intellectual property")
Last edited by robertosf92 on 5 August 2024 at 10:56 am UTC
1 Likes, Who?
Mountain Man Aug 5
Quoting: KimyrielleQuoting: Mountain ManWhat they're demanding is simply not realistic and will most likely encourage developers and publishers out of the European market, or perhaps release special "EU Exclusive" titles that are basically crippled out of the box.
As I said, the power already rests in the hands of the consumers. If you don't like that a game could be "remotely disabled" (talk about a straw man!), then don't buy it. It's as simple as that. No heavy-handed government involvement necessary.
It might not go anywhere, but not for the reason you stated. I frankly don't understand which part of "release the server software and/or remove the DRM when you're commercially done with a game" isn't 'realistic'. Of course it is, and it would cost studios near nothing to publish the required components when they stop monetizing a game.
The reason why it won't happen is more like because governments don't care enough, or don't want to interfere with the Holy Free Market, and not because it couldn't be done.
As noted, it simply may not be legally possible for a company to essentially release a game for free when it contains proprietary and copyrighted content. It's not as simple as some people would like it to be.
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Mountain Man Aug 5
Quoting: benstor214Quoting: Mountain ManYou can't expect the entire global software industry to suddenly go open source just because some gamers in Europe have their noses out of joint."You can't expect the entire global smartphone industry to suddenly go USB-C just because some customers in Europe have their noses out of joint."
Quoting: macrumors.comWhy Apple Adopted USB-Csource: https://www.macrumors.com/guide/usb-c-iphone/
The European Union instituted legislation mandating that electronic devices like smartphones use a "common port," which the EU established was the USB-C port.
Why are you so pro-corporations/anti-consumers?
Nevermind that USB-C was in wide use years before that initiative. It seems the EU simply codified a standard that had already been adopted by the tech industry. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
0 Likes
Quoting: Mountain ManQuoting: KimyrielleQuoting: Mountain ManWhat they're demanding is simply not realistic and will most likely encourage developers and publishers out of the European market, or perhaps release special "EU Exclusive" titles that are basically crippled out of the box.
As I said, the power already rests in the hands of the consumers. If you don't like that a game could be "remotely disabled" (talk about a straw man!), then don't buy it. It's as simple as that. No heavy-handed government involvement necessary.
It might not go anywhere, but not for the reason you stated. I frankly don't understand which part of "release the server software and/or remove the DRM when you're commercially done with a game" isn't 'realistic'. Of course it is, and it would cost studios near nothing to publish the required components when they stop monetizing a game.
The reason why it won't happen is more like because governments don't care enough, or don't want to interfere with the Holy Free Market, and not because it couldn't be done.
As noted, it simply may not be legally possible for a company to essentially release a game for free when it contains proprietary and copyrighted content. It's not as simple as some people would like it to be.
You keep ignoring the fact that this isn't what the initiative is about. Nobody is being told to release their games for free. Even "essentially".
They've already sold that content to their customers. The game should be left in a (reasonably) playable state for those existing customers unless there's a very good reason not to.
3 Likes, Who?
Mountain Man Aug 5
Quoting: Deleted_UserOn the contrary, it's the very definition of control. Vote with your wallet. Nobody is forcing you to buy it.Quoteand they already have 100% control over the situation: If you have any concern whatsoever that an online service for a game might be discontinued at some point in the future, then don't buy that game.That's the opposite of control. In fact this argument applies to all sorts of fraudulent sales, since you were not forced to buy any fake products.
The other misconception is that the software in question is being sold fraudulently when there is no explicit or implicit guarantee that it will continue working in perpetuity. I suppose companies could simply state plainly on the box that there is no such guarantee, and this whole thing becomes moot.
Last edited by Mountain Man on 5 August 2024 at 2:22 pm UTC
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A potentially interesting outcome of this could be that publishers that sell a product that depends on an external party for functioning will have to specify a minimum time that they guarantee the functioning of this product for all or part of its functions. This could apply to everything from games to a "smart" fridge. I think it would be extremely beneficial for consumers if producers are forced to think about this before they are allowed to sell anything so it could be included in the value of a product.
2 Likes, Who?
Mountain Man Aug 5
Quoting: tuubiQuoting: Mountain ManQuoting: KimyrielleQuoting: Mountain ManWhat they're demanding is simply not realistic and will most likely encourage developers and publishers out of the European market, or perhaps release special "EU Exclusive" titles that are basically crippled out of the box.
As I said, the power already rests in the hands of the consumers. If you don't like that a game could be "remotely disabled" (talk about a straw man!), then don't buy it. It's as simple as that. No heavy-handed government involvement necessary.
It might not go anywhere, but not for the reason you stated. I frankly don't understand which part of "release the server software and/or remove the DRM when you're commercially done with a game" isn't 'realistic'. Of course it is, and it would cost studios near nothing to publish the required components when they stop monetizing a game.
The reason why it won't happen is more like because governments don't care enough, or don't want to interfere with the Holy Free Market, and not because it couldn't be done.
As noted, it simply may not be legally possible for a company to essentially release a game for free when it contains proprietary and copyrighted content. It's not as simple as some people would like it to be.
You keep ignoring the fact that this isn't what the initiative is about. Nobody is being told to release their games for free. Even "essentially".
They've already sold that content to their customers. The game should be left in a (reasonably) playable state for those existing customers unless there's a very good reason not to.
"Remove DRM and give us your server code" is to essentially demand that companies release their games for free after they are no longer commercially viable.
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Mountain Man Aug 5
Quoting: EhvisA potentially interesting outcome of this could be that publishers that sell a product that depends on an external party for functioning will have to specify a minimum time that they guarantee the functioning of this product for all or part of its functions. This could apply to everything from games to a "smart" fridge. I think it would be extremely beneficial for consumers if producers are forced to think about this before they are allowed to sell anything so it could be included in the value of a product.
No company will ever promise that, and if anybody bothered to read the fine print, they would know that companies actually state the opposite, that there is no explicit or implicit guarantee of future functionality, and that product support can be discontinued at any time with or without notice.
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