Everything except making a store people wanted to use? Ethan Evans, who was previously Vice President of Prime Gaming at Amazon, has a short retrospective of trying to take on Steam.
It's a typical LinkedIn post that doesn't exactly go into a whole lot of detail, but it's still interesting to get just a little behind the scenes from people who worked at companies that thought they could dethrone Steam. In the post Evans notes how "we failed multiple times to disrupt the game platform Steam" despite being "250x bigger" and how they "tried everything".
Evans continued noting "We acquired Reflexive Entertainment (a small PC game store) and tried to scale it. It went nowhere" and then after buying Twitch and trying a store there assuming people would use it because they watch livestreams, they were also wrong. Then it comes to the cloud gaming platform Luna, which also appears to not be going particularly well, noting how along with Stadia from Google that "Neither gained significant traction".
Why the failures? Evans said "The mistake was that we underestimated what made consumers use Steam. It was a store, a social network, a library, and a trophy case all in one. And it worked well".
It's not just Amazon though.
When you think about the Epic Games Store, and how they're trying to compete with constant free game giveaways, they're pretty much coasting on the revenue from the likes of Fortnite, and it shows you truly how difficult it is to move people away from what they like and what they're used to.
In Epic's 2024 Year in Review they might show off some fancy numbers in multiple places with an increase in total spending from users, but they had an 18% cut in third-party PC game spending on the Epic Store. Looking back to 2023, they had a 13% cut in third-party PC game spending, so it's actually getting worse.
If you want to compete in an established market, against a company that's massive and (on the whole) quite well liked, you have to have something better to offer in some way. Just being big doesn't mean you'll be a success.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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hardpenguin 2 days ago
Why the failures? Evans said "The mistake was that we underestimated what made consumers use Steam. It was a store, a social network, a library, and a trophy case all in one. And it worked well".
I feel that every Steam competitor fails to understand that. And that Steam is even more than that. Constantly dropping extra features like Remote Play Together or Game Recording plays a significant role as well.
The only PC competitor that managed to make a dent is Microsoft thanks to the PC Gaming Pass. An offer that is simply too good to ignore for most.
24 Likes, Who?
With all the added features along with their own hardware, Steam is a lot more than just a store, it's an entire platform.
30 Likes, Who?
"We didn't know what we were doing and we didn't succeed" - another corporate grifter
39 Likes, Who?
SilverCode 2 days ago
Valve are a bunch of gamers who just want to do cool things and make the gaming ecosystem better. They use the Steam Store as a way to give people access to the stuff they are doing.
This has built up a lot of good will between gamers and Valve/Steam.
Amazon/Epic/Google et al are a bunch of corporate suites who want to milk gamers for as much money as possible, and are trying to set up stores to do so, and use those stores to push even more money grabbing ideas from the suites.
They have next to no good will with gamers. In fact, due to their other areas of business, they likely have negative good will, and people fully expect the rug to be pulled out from under them at any point no matter how many free games they give away. See: Amazon Kindle.
This has built up a lot of good will between gamers and Valve/Steam.
Amazon/Epic/Google et al are a bunch of corporate suites who want to milk gamers for as much money as possible, and are trying to set up stores to do so, and use those stores to push even more money grabbing ideas from the suites.
They have next to no good will with gamers. In fact, due to their other areas of business, they likely have negative good will, and people fully expect the rug to be pulled out from under them at any point no matter how many free games they give away. See: Amazon Kindle.
38 Likes, Who?
I find the "tried everything" very funny. They really didn't. Amazon stuff was barely functional at best.
Epic has a similar problem. When they opened their store they had nothing. Then they focused on being interesting to publishers instead of customers, so nobody really feels compelled to give them a chance.
I think the actual bigger problem is that they let Steam happen. For a long time nobody even challenged Steam and just let them grow. When the competition finally woke up, it was way too late. People had built up extensive libraries and Valve had acquired a good understanding of what the customers wanted. Too little, too late is how I would describe Amazon and Epic. They should have been there before 2010, not 2018 or whenever they finally started.
Epic has a similar problem. When they opened their store they had nothing. Then they focused on being interesting to publishers instead of customers, so nobody really feels compelled to give them a chance.
I think the actual bigger problem is that they let Steam happen. For a long time nobody even challenged Steam and just let them grow. When the competition finally woke up, it was way too late. People had built up extensive libraries and Valve had acquired a good understanding of what the customers wanted. Too little, too late is how I would describe Amazon and Epic. They should have been there before 2010, not 2018 or whenever they finally started.
12 Likes, Who?
The Steam is nice to use, it doesn't force you anything and provides features that are nice to have. You want to play offline? Just do it. You want to organize your library? Here are categories, have fun. Looking for some specific games? Here are the recommendations. And so on. Their openness is also a big plus. Hardware that you can do anything with and have even guide how to disassemble it that is a really great thing :-)
When Epic starts to make the store more user friendly and not just trying to compete with free giveaways they would maybe have a bigger share. Everything I usually hear from them is either about money or how bad Steam is. The only positive thing they did in last few years is Unreal Engine 5 (I assume that is different division of Epic).
When Epic starts to make the store more user friendly and not just trying to compete with free giveaways they would maybe have a bigger share. Everything I usually hear from them is either about money or how bad Steam is. The only positive thing they did in last few years is Unreal Engine 5 (I assume that is different division of Epic).
8 Likes, Who?
pleasereadthemanual 2 days ago
"we failed multiple times to disrupt the game platform Steam"And the world collectively breathed a sigh of relief.
19 Likes, Who?
fenglengshun 2 days ago
The thing is, it's not like there's never an antipathy towards Valve and Steam. Even now, people do still complain about them. Heck, people were cheering Epic at first hoping it would make Valve fix things - and it did, while Epic was slow to catchup.
That last part is the issue. If you have more negatives while lacking the key positives of Steam, you're just acting as an ad for Steam.
Though, even if you do all that, you need time and to actually compete with Steam on price or other things that make people want to buy games on your platform (me, I've started to use GOG because they have some VNs there that Steam don't - despite it being way more expensive due to lacking regional pricing).
That last part is the issue. If you have more negatives while lacking the key positives of Steam, you're just acting as an ad for Steam.
Though, even if you do all that, you need time and to actually compete with Steam on price or other things that make people want to buy games on your platform (me, I've started to use GOG because they have some VNs there that Steam don't - despite it being way more expensive due to lacking regional pricing).
2 Likes, Who?
Personally, I don't use Steam because I play on PC, but rather I choose to play games on PC because of Steam. Any company is going to have a hard time challenging that.
I also support GOG and Itch, and I'd sooner stop playing games altogether than touch the Epic Games Store.
As for Amazon, eh. Free games don't entice me to use a service. I've got hundreds on GOG and thousands on Steam, I don't need more. And I'd rather buy a game on Steam than get it for free elsewhere.
Last edited by sonic2kk on 19 Feb 2025 at 12:23 pm UTC
I also support GOG and Itch, and I'd sooner stop playing games altogether than touch the Epic Games Store.
As for Amazon, eh. Free games don't entice me to use a service. I've got hundreds on GOG and thousands on Steam, I don't need more. And I'd rather buy a game on Steam than get it for free elsewhere.
Last edited by sonic2kk on 19 Feb 2025 at 12:23 pm UTC
18 Likes, Who?
ContainerRunner 2 days ago
The Steam features like family sharing or the social features (e.g. screenshots, achievements, steam profil, etc.) are big motivation factor for me as well to buy on or rather for Steam. The Steam key system is contributing to this. I can go to any other official store like listed on https://isthereanydeal.com/ and get a Steam key often cheaper. Although, Steam doesn't get money here, I might get an DLC or other game since I'm already on their platform.
They are right that their target scope was too small. If they only want to build a store, then they would compete with others like Fanatical and would need to sell game keys too to have a standing. However, If they want to build store + library/launcher, then will need many years of development to compete with Steam. Otherwise, they would only steal marketshare from smaller platforms like GOG.
Even Epic is still years away from Steam. So for example the store experience on Steam is a lot better. Steam has an actual user review system, recommendations and often gameplay screenshots or videos. Often I have to go to YouTube or even Steam if I want to know if that game is something for me, because it's that bad on Epic. Then there is workshop support, discussions, guides, etc. Even finding DLCs for your games from your library view is a lot easier. At least they know about these issues and have improvements on their roadmap https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicGamesPC/comments/1c44ylv/epic_game_store_20242025_roadmap/ . Although it will still take a while, because currently they only have achievements and friends on profile pages and that was planned ages ago.
Nevertheless, we shouldn't forget that most people will be driven by money. You can actually get a lot of games cheaper if you factor in Epic's coupons during sales and the cashback system (Epic Rewards). However, there is strong competition with all the other stores. Furthermore, sometimes the game giveaway have good titles in it, but unless the other issues are addressed I'm not really motivated to buy something if it's not a lot cheaper.
Last edited by ContainerRunner on 19 Feb 2025 at 12:32 pm UTC
They are right that their target scope was too small. If they only want to build a store, then they would compete with others like Fanatical and would need to sell game keys too to have a standing. However, If they want to build store + library/launcher, then will need many years of development to compete with Steam. Otherwise, they would only steal marketshare from smaller platforms like GOG.
Even Epic is still years away from Steam. So for example the store experience on Steam is a lot better. Steam has an actual user review system, recommendations and often gameplay screenshots or videos. Often I have to go to YouTube or even Steam if I want to know if that game is something for me, because it's that bad on Epic. Then there is workshop support, discussions, guides, etc. Even finding DLCs for your games from your library view is a lot easier. At least they know about these issues and have improvements on their roadmap https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicGamesPC/comments/1c44ylv/epic_game_store_20242025_roadmap/ . Although it will still take a while, because currently they only have achievements and friends on profile pages and that was planned ages ago.
Nevertheless, we shouldn't forget that most people will be driven by money. You can actually get a lot of games cheaper if you factor in Epic's coupons during sales and the cashback system (Epic Rewards). However, there is strong competition with all the other stores. Furthermore, sometimes the game giveaway have good titles in it, but unless the other issues are addressed I'm not really motivated to buy something if it's not a lot cheaper.
Last edited by ContainerRunner on 19 Feb 2025 at 12:32 pm UTC
1 Likes, Who?
Funny that the best they all can think of is compete, undermine, disrupt, steal userbase... how about some cooperation, geniuses?
14 Likes, Who?
R Daneel Olivaw 2 days ago
@silvercode
Nailed it right on the head! This is exactly right. Specifically the part about them having negative good will. It's true. I hate amazon/ms/google and will actively go out of my way never to use anything they make. Steam is the opposite.
So not only did this talking corpo swarm-of-rats-in-a-suit not even actually try, the rat swarm didn't even understand why the gaming community dislikes them.
I also find it hilarious this is a post on linkedin. LOL.
Valve are a bunch of gamers who just want to do cool things and make the gaming ecosystem better. They use the Steam Store as a way to give people access to the stuff they are doing.
This has built up a lot of good will between gamers and Valve/Steam.
Amazon/Epic/Google et al are a bunch of corporate suites who want to milk gamers for as much money as possible, and are trying to set up stores to do so, and use those stores to push even more money grabbing ideas from the suites.
They have next to no good will with gamers. In fact, due to their other areas of business, they likely have negative good will, and people fully expect the rug to be pulled out from under them at any point no matter how many free games they give away. See: Amazon Kindle.
Nailed it right on the head! This is exactly right. Specifically the part about them having negative good will. It's true. I hate amazon/ms/google and will actively go out of my way never to use anything they make. Steam is the opposite.
So not only did this talking corpo swarm-of-rats-in-a-suit not even actually try, the rat swarm didn't even understand why the gaming community dislikes them.
I also find it hilarious this is a post on linkedin. LOL.
7 Likes, Who?
pleasereadthemanual 2 days ago
I've started to use GOG because they have some VNs there that Steam don't - despite it being way more expensive due to lacking regional pricing).Ditto. Steam is a very mediocre/bad store for VNs.
The thing is, it's not like there's never an antipathy towards Valve and Steam. Even now, people do still complain about them.I am not so much invested in Steam winning as I am in Amazon losing.
4 Likes, Who?
Microsoft might be the most baffling one out of all of them.
They literally had the opportunity to bundle a store directly into the OS that's synonymous with PC gaming, especially at the time where Proton was many years away. They had the chance to dominate like with Internet Explorer.
And they failed. Badly. Apple and Google enjoy massive profits with their stores. Microsoft's consoles are falling behind.
And aside from Gamepass, their store is probably one of the last places someone would buy games from. Meanwhile, the Steam Deck shows people that PC gaming is getting very good outside of Windows and that it's not a requirement anymore.
It's genuinely fascinating just how much they fumbled in pretty much any aspect possible.
They literally had the opportunity to bundle a store directly into the OS that's synonymous with PC gaming, especially at the time where Proton was many years away. They had the chance to dominate like with Internet Explorer.
And they failed. Badly. Apple and Google enjoy massive profits with their stores. Microsoft's consoles are falling behind.
And aside from Gamepass, their store is probably one of the last places someone would buy games from. Meanwhile, the Steam Deck shows people that PC gaming is getting very good outside of Windows and that it's not a requirement anymore.
It's genuinely fascinating just how much they fumbled in pretty much any aspect possible.
5 Likes, Who?
ExpandingMan 2 days ago
It's a sign of just how far the biz wonks at the megacorps have their heads up their asses that this is so mysterious to them. Maybe try making products that benefit their users rather than victimizing them, it's really not that mysterious.
5 Likes, Who?
These corporations just don't get it do they.
I still clearly remember how the entire PC gaming industry was abandoned around the PS2, 360 era in favour of consoles while using the constant excuse of PC gaming is just full of pirates and not profitable. Around this time is when Valve stepped up to the plate and gave us PC gamers a platform of where we could actually buy games. If it were not for Valve then PC gaming would have likely died.
Only now that Steam is highly successful, The greedy corporations come crawling back as they know the console gaming market is dying so want to get back into the PC market. I have NEVER forgotten what the big publishers did in tandem with the retail industry to destroy PC gaming.
As gamers we have lost physical ownership and good quality games in favour of forced online and broken dlc infested junk along with the ever growing number of annoying launchers. GOG is great but does not have much in the way of games and also still does not support linux. EA, Ubisoft and Epic games are just complete and utter scum and as for Amazon, Not even interested.
If a corporation wants to really compete with steam then compete rather than try to bully and manipulate customers onto your platform and offer a compelling product, But most importantly trust must be earned.
Another big one is consumer rights. Stop taking our games away.
I still clearly remember how the entire PC gaming industry was abandoned around the PS2, 360 era in favour of consoles while using the constant excuse of PC gaming is just full of pirates and not profitable. Around this time is when Valve stepped up to the plate and gave us PC gamers a platform of where we could actually buy games. If it were not for Valve then PC gaming would have likely died.
Only now that Steam is highly successful, The greedy corporations come crawling back as they know the console gaming market is dying so want to get back into the PC market. I have NEVER forgotten what the big publishers did in tandem with the retail industry to destroy PC gaming.
As gamers we have lost physical ownership and good quality games in favour of forced online and broken dlc infested junk along with the ever growing number of annoying launchers. GOG is great but does not have much in the way of games and also still does not support linux. EA, Ubisoft and Epic games are just complete and utter scum and as for Amazon, Not even interested.
If a corporation wants to really compete with steam then compete rather than try to bully and manipulate customers onto your platform and offer a compelling product, But most importantly trust must be earned.
Another big one is consumer rights. Stop taking our games away.
18 Likes, Who?
I think the actual bigger problem is that they let Steam happen. For a long time nobody even challenged Steam and just let them grow
I remember when Steam was fairly new, there were quite a few competitors: Impulse, gamergate (that name aged well!), Direct2drive, etc.
But Steam had something the rest didn't: Half-Life, L4D, and a "good" DRM platform. That last was what convinced publishers to put up games, and the first few got us into the store. I remember people gripping about Steam due to the DRM (why do I have to be connected to the Internet to play my single player game? Why can't I back up or sell my used games? What do you mean my in-store purchase was just an activation code?? Where's my box swag?!?!) GOG was in part started due to some of the complaints about Steam.
But the Steam DRM was less invasive than other on disk DRM, people didn't really mind it after they got used to it and with more "exclusive releases" to Steam, I think that pretty much sealed the deal on the early stores.
3 Likes, Who?
R Daneel Olivaw 2 days ago
don't forget cloud saves. I can't remember when that launched but that was titanic for us pc gamers. No longer having to dig through archaic folders and burn the saves to a dvd, or seperate hard drive, etc... Or worry that your backups might get lost or whatever. Cloud saves were HUGE, and as far as I can remember, steam was the only place doing that.
Last edited by R Daneel Olivaw on 19 Feb 2025 at 3:49 pm UTC
Last edited by R Daneel Olivaw on 19 Feb 2025 at 3:49 pm UTC
9 Likes, Who?
wintermute 2 days ago
Having read the LinkedIn post and a few of the top comments it's pretty clear that this guy fully accepts what people here are saying: they had no real understanding of the gaming market and is willing to eat some humble pie on that front. It's actually not a bad read :)
I particularly liked this comment for someone that used to work under him and actually was a gamer:
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7295834479036702720?commentUrn=urn%3Ali%3Acomment%3A%28activity%3A7295834479036702720%2C7297804583605583872%29&replyUrn=urn%3Ali%3Acomment%3A%28activity%3A7295834479036702720%2C7297855154911854592%29&dashCommentUrn=urn%3Ali%3Afsd_comment%3A%287297804583605583872%2Curn%3Ali%3Aactivity%3A7295834479036702720%29&dashReplyUrn=urn%3Ali%3Afsd_comment%3A%287297855154911854592%2Curn%3Ali%3Aactivity%3A7295834479036702720%29
I particularly liked this comment for someone that used to work under him and actually was a gamer:
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7295834479036702720?commentUrn=urn%3Ali%3Acomment%3A%28activity%3A7295834479036702720%2C7297804583605583872%29&replyUrn=urn%3Ali%3Acomment%3A%28activity%3A7295834479036702720%2C7297855154911854592%29&dashCommentUrn=urn%3Ali%3Afsd_comment%3A%287297804583605583872%2Curn%3Ali%3Aactivity%3A7295834479036702720%29&dashReplyUrn=urn%3Ali%3Afsd_comment%3A%287297855154911854592%2Curn%3Ali%3Aactivity%3A7295834479036702720%29
1 Likes, Who?
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