Framework continue doing some really impressive stuff with their modular approach to hardware, and they just had a big event to reveal the Framework Desktop, Framework Laptop 12 and an upgraded Framework Laptop 13.
An especially interesting event for Linux fans too, with Framework founder Nirav Patel giving their Linux compatibility a shout-out on stage at the event on how they "design deliberately for Linux compatibility". Linux support was mentioned multiple times during the event, and in the Desktop segment there was even a direct shout-out for Bazzite and Playtron with both of them having demos at the event too. According to Patel, 2025 is "truly the year of the Linux gaming desktop".
The upgraded Framework Laptop 13 brings with it AMD Ryzen AI 300 Series, a revamped thermal system, a new keyboard and there's also new Bezel and Expansion Card colour options. They said that "any Framework Laptop 13 owner, going all the way back to the original 11th Gen Intel Core version in 2021, can pick up the new modules and upgrade". This is expected to ship in April.
Another fun one is the newly announced Framework Laptop 12. This is a convertible (foldable) touchscreen notebook, that takes the repairability and upgradability they're known for and puts it all into a smaller lower-cost device. This is expected to ship mid-2025.
One I'm very interested in though is the Framework Desktop. A really small Mini-ITX desktop powered by AMD Ryzen AI Max processors. Desktops are already modular though but they said how they wanted to "make this space as accessible as we possibly can by building a desktop that is simultaneously small and simple and incredibly powerful and customizable". More about it:
Framework Desktop’s Ryzen AI Max-powered Mainboard is a standard Mini-ITX form factor with ATX headers, a PCIe x4 slot, and a broad set of rear I/O (including 2x USB4, 2x DisplayPort, HDMI, and 5Gbit Ethernet), so you can drop it into your own case if you prefer. We developed a semi-custom 400W power supply with FSP in a standard Flex ATX form factor. We use standard 120mm CPU fans with a thermal system co-developed with Cooler Master and Noctua, and you can choose to bring your own fan as well if you prefer. We enabled two PCIe NVME M.2 2280 slots for up to 16TB of storage and Wi-Fi 7 through an RZ717 Wi-Fi module.
Plenty of customization is enabled on the desktop too along with a carrying handle to move it around, as it really is small. They even make use of their Expansion Card system from Framework Laptops, with two slots on the front of it available for front port customization. A downside here is that the LPDDR5x is soldered on, as working with AMD they said how they "ultimately determined that it wasn’t technically feasible to land modular memory at high throughput with the 256-bit memory bus". Not cheap though, starting at £1,135 for the AMD Ryzen AI Max 385 model with 32GB RAM and that's without storage or a CPU fan. First shipments expected early Q3 2025.
See more on the Framework website.
You can watch the full event below:
Direct Link
So in the world of mini-PC the FD is above average in repairability and upgradability, even if half of the Windows mini-PC beat them in RAM upgradability. Morever when Windows mini-PC are still dominated by Intel, so even with socketed CPU, the fact you cannot swap motherboard mean you can only at most update the CPU by one gen if you are lucky.
And we need to keep watch for future gene of motherboard, because on the LTT video, Nirav Patel talked in a bit more detail about Framework and AMD's failed efforts to get the Strix Halo APU to work with socketed RAM. He mentioned that AMD assigned one of their technical architects on the subject but determinated that the way the current 256 gb/s memory bus work on Strix Halo, the signal integrity isn't good enough outside soldered RAM. So hopefully this is more a Strix Halo flaw, and future APU on this category might work with CAMM2 RAM.
Add in the fact that we seem to heavily start to stagnate now with overall performance improvements (and said improvements often needing even more power consumption) and I imagine one of those could last a decent while (not to mention it could make for a good TV console after it ages out as the main PC). It heavily depends on where you live but the savings from power consumption could actually make it worthwhile for some.
Give it 1-2 more generations and I might actually buy one.
Last edited by _Mars on 26 Feb 2025 at 12:10 pm UTC
R Daneel Olivaw a day ago
- no gpu
- soldered on cpu (wtf!)
- soldered on ram (wtf!)
- REALLY expensive
This isn't even a desktop computer. If the major components are soldered on, and it's missing a gpu, this is just a shittier version of their laptops, but in bigger form.
HUGE wasted opportunity from them to create a maker kit level plug and play desktop computer than even children could play around with and swap parts in and out of willy nilly. Instead we get this ............... whatever this is.
nattydread a day ago
Hey where's my profile pic gone!
Last edited by nattydread on 26 Feb 2025 at 4:50 pm UTC
Caldathras a day ago
Hey where's my profile pic gone!Old news. We are restricted to approved pics only now. This was explained by Liam in a post that is gone now. Someone posted a Wayback machine link a while back but I can't find the post.
Try this link for Liam's original posts on the matter:
https://web.archive.org/web/20241225233704/https://www.gamingonlinux.com/forum/
Also, refer to GamingOnLinux's User Safety page, which covers all the changes as well:
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/safety.html
As I understand it, the new UK Online Safety Act would require Liam to review each and every profile's avatar pic for inappropriate content. It was just too much work for Liam to undertake.
Last edited by Caldathras on 26 Feb 2025 at 8:35 pm UTC
I think you were looking for this post:
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2025/02/fedora-threatened-with-legal-action-from-obs-studio-due-to-their-flatpak-packaging/comment_id=276177
no_information_here 13 hours ago
I really hope they stay successful. They demonstrate that all the big vendors could make systems that could be a lot more repairable.
Now I might not be the target audience, but I honestly cannot see who is. Especially at such a ridiculously high price: Their biggest model (paired with an okay SSD and the bare minimum for all other options) costs almost 2.700€. For that kind of money you can get a really good PC that outclasses this machine by quite a bit.
I hope this endeavour doesn't cost them too much, as I really like what the company has done so far...
According to Framework on Twitter: "The 128GB Framework Desktop config is by far our top-selling product from yesterday’s launch."Interesting. I'd like to know why people prefer it over something else.
Good to know that it doesn't seem to be a dead end for framework.
maybe with the sole exception of how fast you can access the RAMThat's really the crux of it. This chip has way more memory bandwidth then anything you'll find in the consumer desktop space, and bandwidth is the biggest limiting factor for LLM AI model performance. AI hobbyists have been stuck between a rock and a hard place until now with GPU VRAM having fast bandwith but low capacity and typical CPU RAM having high capacity but slow bandwidth, a lot of people have resorted to buying multiple used 3090s or multiple ancient workstation GPUs to get that large amount of high-bandwith memory for cheap. This is a much more practical, energy efficient and cheaper alternative to that so I'm not surprised it's selling well.
I can appreciate it looks weird for Framework fans who don't know what AI MAX/Strix Halo is and just see that it has soldered RAM but this isn't competing with standard desktops, it's in the same category as Mac Studio and Nvidia Digits. From that perspective, Framework are taking something that has only been avaliable in Laptops and Mini-PCs until now and making it avaliable as standard ITX with standard PCIe, M.2, etc.
That's really the crux of it. This chip has way more memory bandwidth then anything you'll find in the consumer desktop space, and bandwidth is the biggest limiting factor for LLM AI model performance. AI hobbyists have been stuck between a rock and a hard place until now with GPU VRAM having fast bandwith but low capacity and typical CPU RAM having high capacity but slow bandwidth, a lot of people have resorted to buying multiple used 3090s or multiple ancient workstation GPUs to get that large amount of high-bandwith memory for cheap. This is a much more practical, energy efficient and cheaper alternative to that so I'm not surprised it's selling well.Thanks for the info!
I can appreciate it looks weird for Framework fans who don't know what AI MAX/Strix Halo is and just see that it has soldered RAM but this isn't competing with standard desktops, it's in the same category as Mac Studio and Nvidia Digits. From that perspective, Framework are taking something that has only been avaliable in Laptops and Mini-PCs until now and making it avaliable as standard ITX with standard PCIe, M.2, etc.
I reckoned that it'd be a good chip for LLMs, but it seems I clearly underestimated the demand for it. And for that use-case it is of course cheaper than a couple 3090s.
I know what the Strix is capable of, but I am surprised to see framework of all companies to offer such a machine with it.
Last edited by neolith on 27 Feb 2025 at 5:25 pm UTC
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