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Hollow Knight
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Pangaea 9 Mar 2021
This one flew under the radar for me, despite how popular it has become. Recently read a bit about it, and wondered if it could be up my alley. I loved Super Mario back in the day after all, both on NES and Gameboy (the one with only grey-ish colours! :D). When GOG put it on sale again ("only" 50%, but no matter), I decided to buy it.

Played it some hours yesterday, and it's been fun so far. Everybody keep saying that the first hours aren't the best, so I expect it will get better once the game opens up more. I'm not very good with games that require super-fast reflexes and the like any more, and the first boss has so far killed me probably 10 times, but I'll keep trying. Maybe he'll miss jumping on top of me at some point, or I'll be able to heal in between.

Confusing start and I've been going this way and that, not finding my way back to where I was (then dying again later somewhere else), but have purchased a compass now, which makes the map work rather a lot better. Before I died several times when I almost had enough money (geo).

And best of all (well, it's good, haha), it's a native Linux game, and available DRM free (on GOG). No need for any acrobatics. Just install and play.

Have any of you tried it, and what have been your experience with it? (without spoilers of course).

It doesn't appear to be well-covered here, which surprised me a bit. I can see a review from 2017, and then an article recently about the sequel (which doesn't have a date yet, I think).
Schattenspiegel 9 Mar 2021
I seem to remember there were articles about every single free dlc here as well, so there was quite a bit of coverage ;-)
Quite a gem this one, for sure!
xavi 9 Mar 2021
It is a very good game, you will enjoy it!
Pangaea 9 Mar 2021
I feel kinda stupid here now. Can't find out how to progress, and it's still in the beginning :(
Spoiler, click me
Have beaten the False Knight, which took probably 10+ tries, haha. Found a small area that I can't really go into because it's pitch dark. Some locked doors. I saved up enough geo to buy a small key, thinking the door to the right would make me progress. But there was just a priest that told me I had no regrets.

Found an area called Greenpath, but I can't really do much there either. Go around and kill some foes, but maybe I can't get to the proper areas there, because I'm not able to jump far enough. Can't buy a map for the area either (I've tried many times, but no go despite there being notes about being able to do so littered around). Where am I supposed to go?

This is what my map looks like for now
!link

Edit: Geeze. Finally found a way forward and located the map dude again. Apparently one path somewhere I hadn't traversed before. Grr.

Last edited by Pangaea on 9 Mar 2021 at 10:58 pm UTC
denyasis 10 Mar 2021
Yeah, honestly the beginning area is the most confusing. It took me an embarrassing number of tries to pass most bosses. Even once I figured it thier attack patterns, it was still awfully hard.

Great game. Totally worth it.
Pangaea 10 Mar 2021
Yeah, honestly the beginning area is the most confusing. It took me an embarrassing number of tries to pass most bosses. Even once I figured it thier attack patterns, it was still awfully hard.

Great game. Totally worth it.
I hear you!!

Rage quit earlier after dying a zillion times to a boss called Hornet. Couldn't make head nor tails out of attack patterns. When I thought I had it down, she obliterated me in about 5 seconds.

The game is excruciatingly hard. Not sure if it will prove to be up my alley, but I will try a bit more. Quite possible it will be way too hard and way too frustrating, though. No handholding of any type either, or any hints really. Suppose this was how Dark Souls was? I never played that.

Anyway, I'm not really into roguelikes, it gets too frustrating, and this is getting dangerously close to that territory. But apart from the unfairness of combat, I really like the atmosphere, the music, the platforming. So I can see why people like it, it's a good game.
denyasis 11 Mar 2021
Hornet's fights are tough. I generally found the bosses needed a lot of time and patience. If I got frustrated, I had to walk away. Almost had to be in the right state of mind to fight a boss.

It's super fun, but I'm not sure if I'd play it again now that I've beaten it. I'm still traumatized by the crystal level, lol. Definitely will buy the sequel. No questions about that.

Last edited by denyasis on 11 Mar 2021 at 1:22 am UTC
Pangaea 11 Mar 2021
Managed to beat her in the end, but it was rough. Patience is key, but not always enough. Sometimes they simply wipe you seemingly no matter what you do. A jump at the wrong time, trying to heal going wrong, etc.

However, one thing that I'm finding really annoying, is the dearth of benches/checkpoints. Does this not get better? It's really frustrating to die and then needing to go 10-15 screens back, through a bunch of enemies and tough platform challenges, going past spikes and whatnot, and then dying again, or on the way there (losing all money).

And what's worse, I ran into a boss fight (or mini-boss), where I naturally die a lot, and the shade is INSIDE the room. Which means it's impossible to get the shade back, and then back out. It was in the City of Tears. Does this happen many times too? Just seems like a big middle finger to the players :(

The lack of benches and very hard, even unfair, boss fights, makes it very frustrating to play those segments. Yesterday I gave up trying to get through a village far down through the water somewhere, and had to backtrack for at least 30 minutes, maybe an hour.

Exploring is fun, though, and I'm enjoying the game, at least as long as I don't accidentally run into bosses or mini-bosses. Those are crazy hard. One guy covered the entire screen in lava or something, impossible to escape, and jumped all over the place. Thankfully it was possible to get back the shade there, although it was very tricky to get back out through some spikes up and down the walls. It's what ultimately did me in in that village with all the flying serpents. Kept dying on some blasted spikes it looks like I have to traverse. Would be great with a "Beam me home" button :D

Last edited by Pangaea on 11 Mar 2021 at 8:04 pm UTC
Pangaea 12 Mar 2021
It is tempting to look up guides or wikis, but I am worried about getting spoilered. If others are playing this game, or remember details, can you help me out? I'm struggling with what to do now, having played some 30 hours, beating a few bosses, but running into dead ends or "impossible" fights.
Spoiler, click me
I have upgraded the Nail twice (last with a Pale Ore), have defeated some bosses: False Knight, Hornet and Crystal Guardian (if that was a boss). Thought I faced a boss in the Soul Sanctum, but apparently that was "only" a soul warrior, a mini-boss of sorts. I get completely wiped there in seconds, and the shade is left in the room, which makes it much harder, having to fight two enemies. The whole room is basically nuked. Tried to take on the Mantis lords, but get nuked in seconds there too. Presumably have to fight all three, but I can barely get a hit in on the first one before dying. And travelling there... holy shit. It's like 10 screens away, through many tough enemies. I gave up on that one, and the soul area.

Have the Dream Nail (500+ essence now), the dash and wall climb ability. Apart from these impossible bosses, I can't get anywhere else it seems. In Fog Canyon a stream of what looks like oil is blocking me off from the cartographer (jellyfish area), and it's the same somewhere on the other side of the land. There are some shaking floors that I can't get through here and there. Have found the Royal Waterways and done what I can there (I think), including getting a map. Have 7 health skulls and extra soul capability, but only have 4 notches for charms. I use the compass (so I know where the hell I am), the gathering swarm (other 1-notches seem less useful), and the charm that increases soul collecting.

There is a switch in Mantis Village I can't get to, but I couldn't figure out a path I hadn't taken, everything seems to be cleared, except that when I change screen at some point down there, I see another mantis dude behind a locked door.

Tried to get aaaaaall the way east in Crystal Peak, but looks like I need to fly to get across the wide floor there. There is a grub behind (probably) the shaky floor, but otherwise think I've cleared it now.

Have taken on 3 (iirc) grave stones, and after some struggles defeated them. Presumably I can take on a whole pack of those guys east of the essence lady too. Accidentally 'farmed' a woman called Joni, so hope she isn't important. Noticed the "Listen" text when the Dream Nail animation was running (and no reloading in this game).

Where to go from here or what to do? Currently stuck in soul sanctum, but it seems so impossible. Lost 1400-ish geo earlier, so when I went back this time I deposited what gold I had with the bank.

If somebody read all that, are you able to tell if I've missed something obvious somewhere that could enable me to move on, without taking on those two "impossible" bosses? I got tired of dying within seconds after travelling for 10 minutes each time

Last edited by Pangaea on 12 Mar 2021 at 1:43 pm UTC
Pangaea 12 Mar 2021
Some pictures of my inventory and two maps (zoomed out and roughly where I am now)
Spoiler, click me
!link

!link

(Took on the more impossible soul twat this time, behind that once-locked door, so that is where my corpse currently resides)
!link
Pangaea 12 Mar 2021
Hmm, then it must be possible to go somewhere else in Crystal Peak I suppose. Maybe it's possible to get all the way east after all then, across all those big crystal death floors?

Does the game get even more difficult after this, or will extra abilities and health somewhat balance it out? I love the exploration and normal enemies, but these huge difficulty spikes (and long travel) is testing me :/
Pangaea 12 Mar 2021
Crystal Peak its on the right upper corner i think dont know it 100% now but just look around. For difficulty i dont know if i can answer that correctly since i play myself rather in such games (Dark Souls , Hollow Knight , Dead Cells and much more, basically everything whats considered "hard") so rather than answering if it gets more difficult i give you a tip: practice. Learn the move pattern from the enemies and rest is i would say just a thing of good reactions.
Thank you. Yes, that is what I'm trying, learning movement and attack patterns and being patient. It works really well now against most enemies I encounter, and I can mostly kill them without getting hit (unless I try to move fast), but the bosses is a different thing. They are so fast and there is so much going on, and it's hard to practice when you need to travel that far to have another go.

However, I found another way now in the eastern Crystal Peaks. There was a way I hadn't seen earlier. I'm not supposed to jump east after those flip-floors. Hopefully I can find my way now, to presumably another impossible boss. Oh dear... :D

I never played the Souls games, so this type of game is new to me. Super Mario and the like a thousand years ago was rather more easy-going than this, hah.
Pangaea 13 Mar 2021
Well, that was a bundle of fun. Keyboard is now missing some keys, including the left shift and some numbers (and funnily enough, the Windows key). If the game had a death counter, it would have to use at least 64 bits. Probably more.

...and yet I kinda want to dive back in there. I must be mentally deranged. Wish there were more benches though, but didn't see any mods with that.

Suppose it's safe to say that was a full-blown rage quit

Damn banker ran off with my 2900 geo too, so I'm back at nothing (it's realistic, tho, I'll give them that).

The bosses and some of the enemies are utterly soul crushing. Some flying dipshits in Queen's Garden put me over the edge, literally too. They kept shooting flying saucers that hit me twice and put me into the spikes, losing 3 hearts in essentially one go. And there are heaps of the bastards on screen, in a locked room, with the shade inside.

Was so happy when I fought the soul master, because I defeated him the first time. I thought. Then there was a second phase and he destroyed me in seconds. Got to that phase one more time, but mostly losing to him in the first phase. Way too much crap going on.

Basically I wish it was possible to get to other areas now without facing all these "impossible" bosses.

The only goal I have now is to farm geo so I can buy some notches from that woman I suddenly learned existed in the Crossroads. I only have 4, and a zillion charms.
Pangaea 13 Mar 2021
Managed to beat the Soul Bastard after a million tries, got the ability, and was looking forward to bust those floors I had seen here and there. However, I can't get out of the Soul Sanctum/boss area. Have gone around about 5 times now, killing a horde of the respawning fish things, found the secret area and busted through the shaky floors here (3-4 of them).

I did come across the corpse of the boss, and hit the dream nail on him because he was shimmering with those effects, thinking maybe I'd get some dialogue. That got me into a dream sequence of sorts, with a much worse version of him called the Soul Tyrant. Naturally I died in seconds. The whole screen is even more nuked than normal in this game.

As a last resort I tried to quit and load the save again, hoping I'd be back at the bench. But no. I just respawn next to the boss. I've hit what switches I've seen around the place, but can't get out. Don't have the compass on me either, since it wasn't needed in a boss fight. So I can't really see where I am, but it's a fairly small place.

Any ideas what is wrong? If I need to beat the soul tyrant first, I may as well put the game aside. That ain't happening if I try another million times.

This is where I spawn when loading the save.
Spoiler, click me
!link
Pangaea 13 Mar 2021
Thanks. Gee, I hadn't gone high enough in that room at the end, but went left there. Everything else I had done, including all the shaky floors, grub, etc. Should be fine now (not tried in-game yet), I was worried about a game-stopping weird bug or something.
Pangaea 15 Mar 2021
Yeah, I've had it now. Dying a million times to bosses or spikes everywhere but 1 pixel and then having to travel for 5 minutes back each time is just wasting my time. And making me feel like shit. Presumably got quite far as I got the achievement for all maps, and don't see much unrevealed, but this is just too much for me. Queen's Garden can suck on a big one, and the rest of the bosses can keep laughing in peace.

Mantis lords was the last I was able to beat, and that was very lucky with one skull left. Died to white knights when there were only two (I saw somewhere they will get to 5-6). Deepnest was a lot of fun, tho. Great atmosphere and music in the game, and I loved the exploration. But not much left to explore now. Only Queen's Garden really. Then boss fight after boss fight, and the blasted trials.

Dying, usually within seconds, hundreds of times in a row is not fun. Just makes me feel like total shit, and I have real life for that.

Shame to not get to the end, because the story was quite intriguing, but this isn't healthy.

...or like some streamer apparently said, "I need to play some Dark Souls now to relax."

Last edited by Pangaea on 15 Mar 2021 at 6:02 pm UTC
Pangaea 15 Mar 2021
I was an idiot and tried again. Hard to leave a game unfinished.

It has now been uninstalled and deleted. Doubt I'll buy the sequel after all.
Pangaea 16 Mar 2021
Sorry to keep going on here, but I wanted to see how things ended, so I watched the end of a playthrough on YouTube.
White Palace episode (SICK!!!) (2nd to last, obviously huge spoilers)

That is sadistic , haha. A million saw and choppy-choppy areas where millimeter precision and millisecond timing is required. Total madness. Glad I stopped when I did (but should have done it earlier). Wouldn't have been able to get through that if I played non-stop until the game after Silksong gets out.

Respect to people who actually played through that to the bitter end, but seriously, that is not achievable for normal human beings. Holy shit. I hope Silksong will be more accessible for people who aren't professional gamers or with divine memory and patience. The game does a lot of things right, but some (all?) of the end-game bosses and some of the platforming is simply unfair and sadistic. Art, music and atmosphere is fantastic, though, and it was lovely to go around exploring the map and slowly discovering more of it. Felt lost and didn't know where to go a lot of the time, but that's okay. Some of the other aspects with the game were not, at least for me.
denyasis 19 Mar 2021
I think... That part is optional. There's a few end game levels that are pretty optional and hard. I think they can give you different endings. This thread has kinda made me want to play Hollow Knight again, or at least a similar type game ( maybe not as impossible, I remember a lot of frustration on my part)
Pangaea 20 Mar 2021
Actually started playing again some days ago. It generally went better and I defeated a good bunch of (mini)-bosses on the first to third attempt. Struggled with the Mantis Lords, but got them eventually. Have now reached roughly where I was before, and motivation is zapping out. Pretty much every inch of the map is explored, and what is left is a bunch of super-hard bosses and also very difficult platforming sections. So it's backtracking central again. Not very fun :(

The game up to this point is fantastic, which is probably why I started over (had deleted all saves earlier in disgust), but I really do wish the endgame was a little different.

(I'm playing with keyboard control, but that seems to work well tbh, so not sure it's a hindrance in this game)

Are there other similar games, with not such an extreme difficulty level, that might be fun to try out? The game is often lumped together with Ori, but are there others in a similar-ish category?
denyasis 20 Mar 2021
Not sure, but I would be interested in similar games too.

I've tried Dust, an Elysian Tail, which seemed similar, but much easier. It's more in the beat em up category.

I think Hollow Knight does spoil the rest, it's so well done on every level everything else I've browsed for seems... Not as engaging
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