Looks like Vendetta - Curse of Raven's Cry was removed from Steam, oh my

TopWare is not a developer. They are german publisher, and they almost destroyed the Polish developer Reality Pump (Two Worlds II, Gorky17, Earth and etc.).

Bad things related to the Raven's Cry is their affair. I am glad that they got for this...

I played this game through in full and actually enjoyed it quite a bit. Now, I'm not saying it's a good game, it's not, and the practice of releasing the "fixed" game months later as a new game, compounded by the alleged paid reviews, is shady as **** and inexcusable. Regardless, I had a lot of fun with the game. Once in a while a game comes along that I can objectively see as being a bad game and yet enjoy playing it. This is one of those games. I guess I just really enjoyed the naval battles and playing a pirate that's like a real pirate, a straight up ***hole murderer, and not the bogus romanticized pirates we usually get, and that was enough to get me to look past the clunky as **** on-foot combat, crappy production value, fanfic level dialogue, and myriad of hilarious bugs.

My main issue was they forced people into manually sending them proof of purchase to gain access to the new version, which was essentially just a big patch. That was my first alarm bell, and I noted it in other articles.

I may sound like a broken record now, but: Do not trust user "reviews". Do. Not. Trust. User. "Reviews".

I quite enjoyed it too (Vendetta, didn't buy the original), though I think they should have been selling it for 33-50% less than what they were asking for it.

Vendetta - Curse of Raven's Cry is acutally a re-release of Raven's Cry. I couldn't see that anything changed in the re-release. It has the same issues, bugs (even story-breaking ones), performance problems and really no difference story-whise (as far as I could get, I am stuck on one story-quest, played there three times, always the same issue). This issue was already (occasionally) there in the original version. They didn't even fix the voice-overs for the Vandetta release.

The exactly same game with a different name. That's what this is.

It has it's enjoyable moments, but the quality of the release is very poor. Very sad to me, since the game has a lot of potential.


Last edited by STiAT on 28 Jan 2016 at 8:24 pm UTC

But for some reason it’s exactly the opposite that happens… Reviews with no information get upvoted, and informative reviews often get downvoted.

I wonder if some people give thorough reviews a "TL;DR" downvote.

TopWare is not a developer. They are german publisher, and they almost destroyed the Polish developer Reality Pump (Two Worlds II, Gorky17, Earth and etc.).

Bad things related to the Raven's Cry is their affair. I am glad that they got for this...

According to Wikipedia Reality Pump was actually founded by TopWare, so it's not like TopWare bought and dismantled a previously successful studio. Still, Vendetta was clearly mismanaged, but it's difficult to tell who is to blame for what.
Also, Gorky 17 was developed by Metropolis Software who was since bought and closed by CDPR.

Steam's system is pretty good by allowing voting on reviews.

The ones throwing thumbs around are just as random as the quality - or validity - of the reviews themselves.
Sorry guys but don't get fooled. Do not trust user reviews.

In addition to the random paid reviews who are bad enough as it is, far worse is the fact that some just have hardly any references for the game they play at all - they don't know how much better the alternatives are cause they've not played'em, have no perspective nor the ability to weight components - and typically don't mind writing and have a reasonably convincing way of expressing themselves, making us believe they actually know what they talk about. But the wider perspective is completely missing behind the disguise.

Thumbs are given on a wide range of reasons, including whether or not they agree with the conclusion of the review. Who may be wrong. Or because they think the text was funny. Or their buddy wrote it. Or downvote cause it was too long. Or... The average thumb-givers are just as clueless, just as random.

And of course you do find reasonable reviews in there. But it's like sorting through garbage to find food.

Do not trust user "reviews".


Last edited by Beamboom on 28 Jan 2016 at 10:32 pm UTC

TopWare is not a developer. They are german publisher, and they almost destroyed the Polish developer Reality Pump (Two Worlds II, Gorky17, Earth and etc.).

Bad things related to the Raven's Cry is their affair. I am glad that they got for this...

According to Wikipedia Reality Pump was actually founded by TopWare, so it's not like TopWare bought and dismantled a previously successful studio. Still, Vendetta was clearly mismanaged, but it's difficult to tell who is to blame for what.
Also, Gorky 17 was developed by Metropolis Software who was since bought and closed by CDPR.

Nope.
1. TopWare born as Poland dev studio.
2. Next they create Reality Pump - dev studio in Kraków.
3. German corporation Zuxxez Entertainment buys Poland TopWare and next kill it - TopWare end of life.
4. Zuxxez Entertainment changing name to TopWare Interactive!
5. TopWare (German) still selling games making by Poland TopWare and Reality Pump.
6. TopWare (German) absorbed Poland Reality Pump.
7. TopWare (German) take off Raven's Cry from German dev studio (because of horrible results) and gives Raven's Cry to continue developing Reality Pump.
8. Reality Pump gets broken game and have deadline to release it! TopWare is coordinator at this project.
9. After release it, TopWare leads to bankruptcy Reality Pump.
10. Reality Pump trying to survive - from dev remains only 18 employees, other left to the newly created brand of CD Projekt in Krakow.
11. 18 devs need to continue developing at Vendetta for TopWare...
12. Reality Pump still trying to survive...

Also if you can use Google Translate, you can read in Polish press many things about TopWare and as they trying leads to bankrupcy Reality Pump - you can read many stories from developers... who left from this ship. If you can, try read it. It's very important to show the true picture of what is happening.

Also, you have right about Metropolis Software with Gorky17. But in this time. Gorky was made by Metropolis for TopWare (this Poland TopWare) and worked on the game people of Polish TopWare and Reality Pump, with this same time as was Metropolis. Sorry for poor english, Im not native speaker.


Last edited by DamonLinuxPL on 28 Jan 2016 at 11:39 pm UTC

lots of bold font

Instead of making everything bold font, a few links to some sources would have been more convincing :P
I'm just going by what wikipedia says (the english version, the french wiki is very short on this but what little it says agrees with the english version, I don't read polish or russian, and something tells me you wouldn't believe the german page anyway)
[Wikipedia on Reality Pump](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_Pump_Studios)

Reality Pump Studios was originally founded an in-house developer for TopWare Interactive in Bielsko-Biała, Poland, in 1995; their first successful title was Earth 2140. In 2001, they formed a partnership with Zuxxez Entertainment AG and officially took the name Reality Pump - Game Development Studios.

[Wikipedia on Topware Interactive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TopWare_Interactive)

TopWare Interactive was started in 1995 as a video game publishing subsidiary of TopWare CD Service AG based in Mannheim, Germany— which included two inhouse development studios, ToonTRAXX and TopWare Programy, which was later renamed to Reality Pump Studios based in Poland. In February 2001, TopWare CD Service AG' filed for bankruptcy.[2] All rights, including both development studios, were acquired by Zuxxez Entertainment AG.

And finally, [Wikipedia on Zuxxez](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuxxez_Entertainment) (seriously, 'Zuxxes'? who came up with that name?)

Zuxxez Entertainment is a video game developer and publisher based in Karlsruhe, Germany [...] In 2001 Zuxxez bought out the insolvent German video game publisher TopWare Interactive, including their Polish in-house development Studio TopWare Interactive Poland [...] In 2005 Zuxxez resurrected TopWare Interactive as subsidiary for all their publishing activities. [...] In 2011, Zuxxez officially renamed itself to TopWare Interactive.

So if I understand this correctly, the company called TopWare today is not the company called TopWare that founded Reality Pump, but they bought TopWare and took the name. Either way, Reality Pump was founded by TopWare.
As you mention, it seems a lot of Reality Pump developers left for CDPR, I found [this article on gamepressure](http://www.gamepressure.com/e.asp?ID=101) (written when they thought Reality Pump had gone bankrupt which turned out to be false.)

The situation of Reality Pump started to grow dire a few years ago. In 2013, Mirosław Dymek, the main pillar of the company, left, taking along a number of talented developers. They moved together to the newly created Kraków branch of CD Projekt RED. [...] Unfortunately, after the exodus of some employees to CD Projekt, a team of only about 30 people remained in the studio, who all got down to work on the pirate-themed sandbox entitled Raven's Cry.

It sounds like a lot of people left before they started working on Raven's Cry, but it's not quite clear from this article. It also doesn't say anything about why people left, if you have any (unbiased) sources about what happened there, please share.
Either way, giving such an ambitious game to a studio with only 30 people seems like a bad idea, no wonder it didn't work at launch.
And just an aside about your point 7: it was initially Octane Games who were supposed to develop Raven's Cry. They're Finnish, not German.
I don't follow your point about Gorky 17, I don't think Reality Pump was involved in this, TopWare never owned them, and CDPR closed them down.

I may sound like a broken record now, but: Do not trust user "reviews". Do. Not. Trust. User. "Reviews".

indeed.. all metrics just suck, metacritic, user reviews etc.. they all suck and arent accurate (they can be from time to time ofc but you cant trust it)

as i have always said: watch a review with gameplay video or watch just some gameplay videos of the game and decide your own

I may sound like a broken record now, but: Do not trust user "reviews". Do. Not. Trust. User. "Reviews".

Well I have to trust someone after being burned on crappy games like Gone Home and Dragon Age 2 after professional critics game those games good scores. usually if a game has a huge number of likes, then I will actually try the game before I hit deciding on whether I would refund it or not.


Last edited by BillNyeTheBlackGuy on 29 Jan 2016 at 10:57 am UTC

lots of bold font

Instead of making everything bold font, a few links to some sources would have been more convincing :P
I'm just going by what wikipedia says (the english version, the french wiki is very short on this but what little it says agrees with the english version, I don't read polish or russian, and something tells me you wouldn't believe the german page anyway)
[Wikipedia on Reality Pump](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_Pump_Studios)

Reality Pump Studios was originally founded an in-house developer for TopWare Interactive in Bielsko-Biała, Poland, in 1995; their first successful title was Earth 2140. In 2001, they formed a partnership with Zuxxez Entertainment AG and officially took the name Reality Pump - Game Development Studios.

[Wikipedia on Topware Interactive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TopWare_Interactive)

TopWare Interactive was started in 1995 as a video game publishing subsidiary of TopWare CD Service AG based in Mannheim, Germany— which included two inhouse development studios, ToonTRAXX and TopWare Programy, which was later renamed to Reality Pump Studios based in Poland. In February 2001, TopWare CD Service AG' filed for bankruptcy.[2] All rights, including both development studios, were acquired by Zuxxez Entertainment AG.

And finally, [Wikipedia on Zuxxez](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuxxez_Entertainment) (seriously, 'Zuxxes'? who came up with that name?)

Zuxxez Entertainment is a video game developer and publisher based in Karlsruhe, Germany [...] In 2001 Zuxxez bought out the insolvent German video game publisher TopWare Interactive, including their Polish in-house development Studio TopWare Interactive Poland [...] In 2005 Zuxxez resurrected TopWare Interactive as subsidiary for all their publishing activities. [...] In 2011, Zuxxez officially renamed itself to TopWare Interactive.

So if I understand this correctly, the company called TopWare today is not the company called TopWare that founded Reality Pump, but they bought TopWare and took the name. Either way, Reality Pump was founded by TopWare.
As you mention, it seems a lot of Reality Pump developers left for CDPR, I found [this article on gamepressure](http://www.gamepressure.com/e.asp?ID=101) (written when they thought Reality Pump had gone bankrupt which turned out to be false.)

The situation of Reality Pump started to grow dire a few years ago. In 2013, Mirosław Dymek, the main pillar of the company, left, taking along a number of talented developers. They moved together to the newly created Kraków branch of CD Projekt RED. [...] Unfortunately, after the exodus of some employees to CD Projekt, a team of only about 30 people remained in the studio, who all got down to work on the pirate-themed sandbox entitled Raven's Cry.

It sounds like a lot of people left before they started working on Raven's Cry, but it's not quite clear from this article. It also doesn't say anything about why people left, if you have any (unbiased) sources about what happened there, please share.
Either way, giving such an ambitious game to a studio with only 30 people seems like a bad idea, no wonder it didn't work at launch.
And just an aside about your point 7: it was initially Octane Games who were supposed to develop Raven's Cry. They're Finnish, not German.
I don't follow your point about Gorky 17, I don't think Reality Pump was involved in this, TopWare never owned them, and CDPR closed them down.

If you want sources, you can try read this but you need using translate:
http://gry.onet.pl/krakowskie-studio-reality-pump-zbankrutowalo/epd3p4

Short info using translate (sorry for mistake but this is google translate)

They led to the collapse of one of the most distinguished development teams in the history of Polish industry. Studies that exported abroad excellent game long before the world heard about The Witcher ...

Experienced and talented staff took care of Reality Pump Bloober Team - creator of, among others, Brawl co-op arcade game, which in terms of gameplay mechanics variation on the theme Bomberman in the dark, heavy atmosphere. It is worth noting that a number of employees of Reality Pump did not have any impact on the situation in the studio and can not be held responsible for the collapse of Polish legend. The true story of Reality Pump, moreover, will soon read in an interview that I conducted with former employees of the Republic of Poland. From this conversation, a picture emerges of years of neglect, pathology, exploitation of workers and idiotic, meaningless decision of the German publishers who actually brought to ruin Reality Pump ...

Peter Babieno, President Bloober Team, as early as mid-2014, knowing the bad situation of Reality Pump, sought to acquire part of the team developer, to provide them with decent working conditions (at that time, late payment in Reality Pump reached a few months), but CEO TopWare Interactive Mr. Dirk Hassinger, asserted that the studio is in excellent condition and there is no crisis. The truth was different ...

Bloober eventually hired about 20 people, former employees of Reality Pump, many of whom answered job advertisements Bloober the end of February of 2015. My interlocutors agreed that in Bloober Team finally learned what a normal, regular paid work in the studio developer. Let us hope that their outstanding skills and many years of experience serve the Polish gaming industry. I just feel sorry iconic studios ...

Another question. Reality Pump was going bankrupt, but actually still defending. Polish court received a request for bankruptcy Reality Pump - but the guys are still struggling. So this info about bankruptcy is not a false but studio still alive but can be closed at any time. Bankrupcy (chapter 11 law) in poland we called it "upadłość układowa" (Systemic bankruptcy) and this is about Kraków team, other team in Bielsko-Biała still trying alive.

Now from Polish Wikipedia about Reality Pump and TopWare (Poland) and (German).
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/TopWare_Interactive
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_Pump_Studios
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/TopWare_Interactive_(niemieckie_przedsi%C4%99biorstwo)
http://gry.onet.pl/krakowskie-studio-reality-pump-zbankrutowalo/epd3p4

Few things:

TopWare Interactive - Polish video game publishing based in Bielsko-Biala. The company was founded in May 1995, although mention about it in the National Court appeared as early as 1992 [1].
- Established in fact in 1992.

Reality Pump was founded in 1995 as an internal development studio TopWare Interactive from Bielsko-Biala. In those days, Reality Pump operated under the name TopWare Interactive Poland. Veteran publishing company was taken over by German ZuxxeZ Entertainment in 2001. In 2003, TopWare Interactive was forced to terminate their activity as a result of fiscal control. The studio was the same year resurect under similar, and the name Reality Pump and bought from the liquidator any debt such as computers or licenses. Anyway, half a year later, the dispute with the Polish tax office were resolved in favor of the developers. - She was, however, a new company and no one reanimated corpse - says Miroslaw Dymek.

In 2003 an experienced team of game developers has been renamed Reality Pump, two years later Zuxxez led to the reactivation of TopWare Interactive, a German publisher. In June 30, 2010, the company TopWare Interactive has been closed, what reason was the lack of interest in the company from the German owner of the company ZuxxeZ Entertainment. One year later in 2011 the German company changed its name to ... TopWare Interactive.
Work on Sacrilegium for the German publisher consumed lots of money Reality Pump, and ultimately were discontinued in 2014. To this poor sales, poor game Iron Sky: Invasion also for the German publisher.
From May 2015 year Reality Pump is an internal TopWare Interactive AG branch.

ABout Octane Games - sorry I don;t remember good but I remember they working at Raven's Cry for TopWare and TopWare took them a game and forwarded to Reality Pump.

About Gorky 17 and Metropolis Software.

Metropolis Software was an independent studio and created the game for the Polish publisher TopWare. They worked on a game Gorky 17 with publisher/developer TopWare (still without a dedicated studio Reality Pump, which was established later with employees TopWare).

In 2008, Metropolis Software was bought by CD Projekt [2], and in September 2009, ended its activity. Many employees of the studio founded 11 bit studio.

If you want sources, you can try read this but you need using translate:
http://gry.onet.pl/krakowskie-studio-reality-pump-zbankrutowalo/epd3p4

Short info using translate (sorry for mistake but this is google translate)

This says nothing about who founded Reality Pump or when. I'm not doubting that they are (or at least at one point were) a good studio, and I agree that it looks like they were badly mismanaged, though it's hard to judge on which end without insider information. What I am questioning is your implication that it was all evil Germans ruining Polish studios and franchises.
Also, looking at that article, I don't know if this is used differently in Polish, but using '...' in an article is not usually considered good journalism. The author wants the reader to infer what's not written based on their own biases. If you have something to say, say it, don't let me fill in the blanks. (I regularly use ellipses in forum posts, but I'm not a journalists, and my posts aren't essays.) Makes it sound manipulative, I'm not saying it is, but, you know... . But again, might be different in different languages, and I don't know that website.

Now from Polish Wikipedia about Reality Pump and TopWare (Poland) and (German).
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/TopWare_Interactive
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_Pump_Studios
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/TopWare_Interactive_(niemieckie_przedsi%C4%99biorstwo)
http://gry.onet.pl/krakowskie-studio-reality-pump-zbankrutowalo/epd3p4

Your last link is the same as above. The reference on the wikipedia page on the polish branch of TopWare is unfortunately dead (what happened to playback.pl? I thought I had seen links to them not too long ago). Still, unless you're saying that it was pure coincidence that there was a company called TopWare in Poland completely unrelated to the company Topware CD-Service AG, the Polish TopWare Programy was founded by and tied to the German TopWare from the start.

ABout Octane Games - sorry I don;t remember good but I remember they working at Raven's Cry for TopWare and TopWare took them a game and forwarded to Reality Pump.

About Gorky 17 and Metropolis Software.

To be honest, I don't really care who worked on what for how long, though there are some interesting titbits in this whole thing. I didn't even know who developed or published Vendetta/Raven's Cry until I read your initial post. What set me off is just that apropos of nothing you felt the need to point out nationalities where they really aren't relevant. If you had simply stated that the publisher TopWare had mismanaged the project and dragged down the developer Reality Pump, I wouldn't have bothered looking up any of this. But to me, mentioning nationalities out of nowhere like this is a bit like discussing someone's actions and suddenly mentioning their skin color or sexual orientation. Doesn't contribute anything useful to the discussion. And if anything your follow-up post showed your motivation for bringing this up, to the extent that you call a Finnish developer German, and claim a German company killed the Gorky studio rather than checking the facts because it fits your narrative.
But then I live in a country filled with flag-waving demagogues, so I've maybe gotten a bit over-sensitive.

Now what I do find interesting in this and didn't know about, is that so many developers went to CDPR, and CDPR buying up other Polish studios. This had me wondering: what effect does the recent rather fast growth of CDPR have on the games industry in Poland? I seem to remember reading that the industry has gained a lot of legitimacy in Poland due to the Witcher's financial success. But on the other hand it sounds like CDPR are absorbing all developers they can find. Has this become a problem for smaller studios in Poland where they can't find local developers but aren't big enough to hire internationally?