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As far as I can determine the already ported Ankh games are a given, since Runesoft's developers already mentioned applying fixes to them that they discovered when working on Jack Keane. The ones that have yet to be ported are still up in the air at this point I believe.

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Quoting: MaximBI'm not saying that all oldies are bad games, far from it - but why port an ancient title and try to sell it instead of porting newer titles.

They intend to do so, but there are two problems.  First, gauging the market, and second, bringing in some income to fund the Linux porting operation with minimal cost.  The older games solve both of the problems.

I'm pretty sure that they're aware that older games are less desirable, and likely factor that into their decision-making process.  If they can be sure that gamers remember, and are interested in, the older titles, then there is a greater chance that the newer games in the series may also see similar attention.  GOG.com has, until very recently, built a successful business entirely around that concept; adding low-priced newer independent titles & Mac games is pretty new.

Lastly, achieving good performance on modern Linux with little work is much easier with old code, so the porting burden is lower.

I'm hoping this strategy pays off!  It's definitely a huge risk to bring decades-old titles that people may have forgotten.  I suppose they will need to grow a reputation for bringing old games people like, so that their Desura page becomes like a mini-GOG for Linux or something.

How about this... GOG solves their Linux support problem by long-term contracting RuneSoft to do the work and build that strategy for them, as well as assisting them with their growing Mac catalogue.  RuneSoft then uses some of that revenue to bring new games, hence raising their profile and improving their list of offerings :)

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Quoting: s_d

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: AnonNo cross-platform multiplayer in BL. No fun for Linux users I guess :(

Really? Man that's pants.

Pretty sure that's just the DRM-free version.  I'd be a tad surprised if multi-player is not included in the Steam version when it is ready.  Someone could probably get clarification from DF via twitter.  I will ask on the DF forums.

 I know what I'm saying. Multiplayer is Linux-Linux, Mac-Mac, Windows-Windows only, no cross-platform multiplayer is what I said. Hopefully they can get it fixed.

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Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: HamishPeople should keep in mind that Runesoft are doing this to port more of their old catalogue to Linux, rather than just grabbing new tittles. Personally, I applaud them for it.

Not just that, they update their older titles to fix bugs like their other Linux ports on Desura.

Yeah, like the best parts of GOG/CD Projekt RED's patching/fixing operation for good old games... but for Linux.  RuneSoft have been our allies for longer than almost any other developer.  We just have to continue showing them that it's financially worth the effort.

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Quoting: SpeedsterI enjoyed this game, hope someday the sequel gets ported to Linux as well

Yeah, I asked RuneSoft about this, and they said that depending on how well their back catalog does on Desura, they want to bring the Ankh games, as well as games that have never been on Linux before, like Jack Keane and the Fire Within and Ankh 3.


I really hope that works out!

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Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: AnonNo cross-platform multiplayer in BL. No fun for Linux users I guess :(

Really? Man that's pants.

Pretty sure that's just the DRM-free version.  I'd be a tad surprised if multi-player is not included in the Steam version when it is ready.  Someone could probably get clarification from DF via twitter.  I will ask on the DF forums.

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Brutal Legend doesn't have a Linux binary on Steam yet, and Costume Quest on Steam doesn't work for me (black screen). Hope they fix that soon. With how the Cave hasn't been updated, I fear the worst but hope for the best.

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Quoting: AnonNo cross-platform multiplayer in BL. No fun for Linux users I guess :(

Really? Man that's pants.

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Interest expressed by whom, developers or users?
Developers expressed some interest by including Linux in beta test forms and users... Planetary Annhilation have plenty of them and it supports Linux. Just saying.
Their answer might be disappointing, but lets face it, there are other games to chose from and for now, not supporting Linux puts the developers in disadvantage, not the users.

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No cross-platform multiplayer in BL. No fun for Linux users I guess :(

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Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: xmirrorxA typo in the title Liam. This feels a bit off for a humble bundle with the pricey tiers.... eh I think I'm going to skip this as I already own some of the games.

I must be tired, where's the typo? :(

'where' should be 'were'. ;)

PS: I'm pretty sure I corrected it a while ago... :O

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Quoting: xmirrorxA typo in the title Liam. This feels a bit off for a humble bundle with the pricey tiers.... eh I think I'm going to skip this as I already own some of the games.

I must be tired, where's the typo? :(

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Well I understand why people was hoping for a Linux client, since they said mac was part of the plan. Well screw em not getting my $$$

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Quoting: GuestFollowing the info 'Paying more than average will give you the steam key for Brütal Legends' - can anyone comment on that?  Will I get a download from Humble, or just a key?

I believe that both games will be available as DRM-free downloads.  Brütal Legend has a single-player campaign, which I believe is what will land in your Humble Library, but the game is recently being heavily promoted by Double Fine as a multi-player PC RTS, and that online multi-player & match-making functionality was all plumbed up using Steamworks (which is both DRM as well as a set of libraries & API's that hugely simplify the engineering of such features for game developers).

Broken Age is a single-player, 2D graphical point-n-click adventure (formerly Double Fine Adventure from Kickstarter), with no online features.  A DRM-free version was promised to all backers of the project, so I believe that the Humble version will probably be the same downloadable installer.

Thusly, I suspect that the Steam keys are both for Steam fans and for unlocking online multi-player matches for Brütal Legend.

However;  my statement is pure speculation and reasoning on my part.  Caveat emptor.  :)

The real question unanswered question... will the DLC's for Costume Quest & Brütal Legend ever be available & usable for the DRM-free version?

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A typo in the title Liam. This feels a bit off for a humble bundle with the pricey tiers.... eh I think I'm going to skip this as I already own some of the games.

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Hot damn, this is fantastic!  I'm perfectly happy to play all the single-player campaigns.  I'm thinking that I'll claim my HIB version of Broken Age and gift the backer's key I have.

Not at all surprised about The Cave, as it just came out, Sega has distribution rights, and will probably (if ever) launch DRM-free at a fixed price before becoming a PWYW deal.

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Not really sure what to think of it.  Psychonauts I do have already, the other two seem so-so from the Trailer. Following the info 'Paying more than average will give you the steam key for Brütal Legends' - can anyone comment on that?  Will I get a download from Humble, or just a key? The latter would be useless...  Same for the 35$ extra - not clear if this would be steam-only and/or DRM-free....

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Woooooooooooo!!! I can't wait to download and play most of these games! But first I'm gonna add them to the sales list. :P

Hamish, I too think it's a pity that The Cave is not included in this bundle, but since it was published by Sega and being a fairly recent release it was somehow to be expected, don't you think?

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Considering there never was any interest expressed, is this really surprising?

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Added a link the Humble Bundle website since you seemed to have forgot Liam. ;)

I will probably find a way to purchase this one, since I did enjoy Psychonauts and it does fit my terms. Brutal Legends needing Steamworks for multiplayer is not a deal breaker, as I can at least play the game DRM free offline. I also see on your Twitter feed that they are releasing new builds of Psychonauts with this one, which is great news, although I assume previous purchasers would have access to it regardless.

I am a little disappointed that The Cave did not get a DRM free debut with this one though.

EDIT: Yes, HIB5 purchasers get the update. :)

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Quoting: AnonymousI'm still at a loss how such a simple concept, that people running linux as their OS should be counted as running linux as their OS, would get such a reaction. Especially from 2 editors no less. Honestly, if RPS hadn't mentioned this place, I'd have never heard of it. Think there might be a reason I hadn't heard of it...

Okay, up until this point I have been reading your posts with a certain amount of good humour, but when you start insulting the website I have to draw a little line in the sand here. First, as Liam has explained, Cheese and my opinions are our own respectively, and do not necessarily reflect Liam (the owner) or anyone else on this website. Second, we have not been being abusive, we have not been attacking you, and we have not abused our powers against you. You have no reason to complain that a couple of Editors have disagreed with you.

And your RPS comment is interesting since they are also quite well known for never being of one mind on anything and allowing a great deal of editorial freedom.

Quoting: AnonymousThe word "wine" comes out, and it doesn't matter what I say, everyone kneejerks and assumes I'm saying something else, then turns around and basically says what I've said as if it should set me straight.

I hardly think I am being kneejerk against Wine here. In fact, I use Wine often, and do not actually use Steam in any incarnation (so my interest in this discussion is purely academic). It is true that I do not believe it is a proper substitute for native Linux gaming, but this is not about penalizing people for using Wine.

This is about the fact that playing a Windows executable is not the same as running a Linux executable. If you believe that Wine numbers are really inflating the Windows stats (something which I do find dubious as I doubt it is all that large a piece of them) to such a degree, why are you opposed to the suggestion of a separate entry for Wine usage?

Not that all this really matters, as we are not Valve.

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[table][tr][td][115110](http://steamdb.info/app/115110/)[/td]
[td]Game[/td]
[td]Stacking[/td]
[td]12 minutes ago[/td]
[td]Game Possibly Works (No Linux Icon) (unconfirmed)[/td]
[/tr]

[tr][td][115100](http://steamdb.info/app/115100/)[/td]
[td]Game[/td]
[td]Costume Quest[/td]
[td]12 minutes ago[/td]
[td]Game Possibly Works (No Linux Icon) (unconfirmed)[/td]
[/tr]
[color][size][font]
[/font][/size][/color][tr][td][225260](http://steamdb.info/app/225260/)[/td]
[td]Game[/td]
[td]Brütal Legend[/td]
[td]13 minutes ago[/td]
[td]Game Possibly Works (listed)[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

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Personally I think Wine is fantastic and is part of the reason Linux has been as popular as it has been.

I am unsure where I stand on it, I think my personal view is that I would like for Wine installs to be counted as exactly what it is - Wine.

Since Wine can be run on Mac as well it would be interesting to get the numbers on it.

QuoteHonestly, if RPS hadn't mentioned this place, I'd have never heard of it. Think there might be a reason I hadn't heard of it...

The main reason would be that we are still a small website nothing to do with our commenters as you imply - you are the only one who seems to be having a big problem with all of this.

Mr/Miss? Anonymous I've read all of this and I see nothing wrong with what my editors have said, everyone has their own point of view that is the point of commenting if they don't agree with you it's not them being confrontational it's them trying to give their point of view as well.

Honestly to me it just sounds like everyone is having a good old chat, just remember to keep it cool guys.

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Quoting: AnonymousYes. I've been saying that. Repeatedly.

I think this point has been overlooked by the bigger picture, but I do agree with you here.

Quoting: AnonymousYes. Which is why it needs to report as linux rather than anything else. I've been saying that. Repeatedly.

Quoting: AnonymousYes. That would be the entire point of why I've been saying it should report as linux.

You keep saying everyone is missing your point, yet you are missing everyone else's. Wine usage should *not* count as a *native* Linux client. Plain and simple. However, it *should* count as a Windows client in an *emulated* environment.  

I think the main problem is that the title of the "OS" portion of the survey is misleading, in that it would suggest what base operating system you are running, but we are all too aware that this is not always the case.

Quoting: AnonymousWell, that's not surprising. Even you're doing a similar song and dance. The word "wine" comes out, and it doesn't matter what I say, everyone kneejerks and assumes I'm saying something else, then turns around and basically says what I've said as if it should set me straight. If it's unclear, why do you all keep restating my points?

I haven't "knee jerked" at all -- my previous point about "OS" being misleading hopefully clarifies my stance a bit better. Considering you think we are all putting words in your mouth, you sure are doing a lot of the same. If there is some kind of communication issue between your posts and mine, then I can only apologise -- as I said, to me, your stance is unclear.

Quoting: AnonymousYou seem to have understood them well enough to rephrase them and retain the meaning.

I don't know how best to respond to that -- you obviously have a good idea of where you stand on the matter, however that stance is not coming across (to me) in your posts. If my opinion on it matches yours, but the wording is different, then perhaps it's because the way your phrase it does not make it obvious. I'm not trying to argue what your opinion should be, I'm trying to get across my opinion and clarify how I interpreted other peoples opinion to maybe help you understand them better.

Quoting: AnonymousWell, I point out the basic flaw of the hardware survey in this instance and assumed everyone else was smart enough to connect the dots. I get people who don't "buy it" as if I'm a charleton selling snakeoil, then turn right around and say they don't think wine should count as windows either. I've done this till I literally can't comprehend how people are missing this, so I tried to drop it down another notch to make it harder to twist around. So yes, I've stripped everything out, because anything else just seems to fly above heads.

Being obnoxious does not prove a point.The main argument (as far as I can tell) rebutted against you was that -- because your original post did not go in to nearly as much detail as your subsequent replies -- Wine should not be counted as native.

There are clearly some crossed wires here because Wine usage still means they are running Linux, however - on the face of things - it does not accurately suggest Linux users want Linux ports. It suggests Linux users are happy to settle on Wine compatible way before an actual port (which wouldn't be so bad if the developers helped improve Wine).

Quoting: AnonymousI'm still at a loss how such a simple concept, that people running linux as their OS should be counted as running linux as their OS, would get such a reaction. Especially from 2 editors no less. Honestly, if RPS hadn't mentioned this place, I'd have never heard of it. Think there might be a reason I hadn't heard of it...

I'm not sure if you want a response from me on this or not.

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Quoting: edgleyIf they attribute the Wine usage as actual Windows usage, then they should probably do something about that

Yes. I've been saying that. Repeatedly.

Quoting: edgleyHowever, many companies see Wine as a viable "Linux port"

Yes. Which is why it needs to report as linux rather than anything else. I've been saying that. Repeatedly.

Quoting: edgleyI can't speak for anyone else, of course, but I think most people would argue that a native port is better than a Wine wrapper.

Yes. That would be the entire point of why I've been saying it should report as linux.

Quoting: edgleyI don't see either Hamish's or Cheese's arguments as straw men, I see your point as being unclear.

Well, that's not surprising. Even you're doing a similar song and dance. The word "wine" comes out, and it doesn't matter what I say, everyone kneejerks and assumes I'm saying something else, then turns around and basically says what I've said as if it should set me straight. If it's unclear, why do you all keep restating my points? You seem to have understood them well enough to rephrase them and retain the meaning.

Quoting: edgleyJust to add, your example here is -- in my opinion -- stripped right down to the basics, which I don't think is close to accurate.

Well, I point out the basic flaw of the hardware survey in this instance and assumed everyone else was smart enough to connect the dots. I get people who don't "buy it" as if I'm a charleton selling snakeoil, then turn right around and say they don't think wine should count as windows either. I've done this till I literally can't comprehend how people are missing this, so I tried to drop it down another notch to make it harder to twist around. So yes, I've stripped everything out, because anything else just seems to fly above heads.

I'm still at a loss how such a simple concept, that people running linux as their OS should be counted as running linux as their OS, would get such a reaction. Especially from 2 editors no less. Honestly, if RPS hadn't mentioned this place, I'd have never heard of it. Think there might be a reason I hadn't heard of it...

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Quoting: AnonymousYou're stuck on the fact that a previously released game is being run with emulation, while I'm discussing how not identifying that properly will effectively camouflage the linux market until companies no longer believe it exists. That results in less native games, more emulation, and it just snowballs from there.

This is a very simple point. I'm utterly astounded that you keep trying to twist it into something else and then complain about your version. That's called a "straw man argument" btw.

I don't know how Valve attribute Wine usage into their stats, but you have to acknowledge you want to participate in the survey -- so you would only add to the stats if you said you are okay with it.

If they attribute the Wine usage as actual Windows usage, then they should probably do something about that, however Steam itself (again, how that gets transferred I have no idea) is aware it's being run in Wine; when you get the system information through Steam it tells you the Wine version as well.

However, many companies see Wine as a viable "Linux port" -- if they see that a lot of Linux gamers are running games via Wine just fine, then this could have a negative impact on said companies opinion of making an actual native port just as much as hiding the fact that lots of Linux gamers use Wine.

I can't speak for anyone else, of course, but I think most people would argue that a native port is better than a Wine wrapper.

I don't see either Hamish's or Cheese's arguments as straw men, I see your point as being unclear.

Quoting: AnonymousGame company X is making a new game. They want to distribute on Steam as it is a very popular service. They look at the hardware survey to decide what platforms to support before beginning their project and see that no one apparently uses linux, so they won't bother supporting the platform. In reality, a large chunk of the supposed windows users are in fact using linux, and would love company X's new game to be released natively... but alas, the metrics lied to them. Thus company X does not make linux games. Company Y, wanting to model themselves on X's success, notices they don't waste time with linux, so neither will they. etc. etc.

Just to add, your example here is -- in my opinion -- stripped right down to the basics, which I don't think is close to accurate.

I would really hope that a company does not base their entire operation around Steam and Steam's (known) less than perfect survey. Moreover, I wouldn't say a "large chunk" of the Windows user base was in fact running Wine.

At best, I would estimate 1% of the entire Windows group were running Wine.

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Ah, well that sums it up. You miss the point entirely, and can't even see how you've missed it when notified, because you're thinking on a different scale.

You want everything to have its nice little box to be put into. You think I'm saying that, for instance, playing Fallout:New Vegas with wine and being counted as using linux will somehow make a new vegas port appear out of thin air.

So, for the final time, I'm going to explain this. Let's try a story since outright discussion seems impossible:

Game company X is making a new game. They want to distribute on Steam as it is a very popular service. They look at the hardware survey to decide what platforms to support before beginning their project and see that no one apparently uses linux, so they won't bother supporting the platform. In reality, a large chunk of the supposed windows users are in fact using linux, and would love company X's new game to be released natively... but alas, the metrics lied to them. Thus company X does not make linux games. Company Y, wanting to model themselves on X's success, notices they don't waste time with linux, so neither will they. etc. etc.

You're stuck on the fact that a previously released game is being run with emulation, while I'm discussing how not identifying that properly will effectively camouflage the linux market until companies no longer believe it exists. That results in less native games, more emulation, and it just snowballs from there.

This is a very simple point. I'm utterly astounded that you keep trying to twist it into something else and then complain about your version. That's called a "straw man argument" btw.

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Quoting: tooryea got it yesterday and I'm really not unhappy, the graphics are awesome and it's interesting to play

That's a strange way to put it :P

I didn't actually see the previous post about this, but I brought it on Desura this morning going purely off the screenshots and a very brief YouTube video I found.

Looks very promising and I will be trying this out tonight :)

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yea got it yesterday and I'm really not unhappy, the graphics are awesome and it's interesting to play

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Quoting: Anonymous

Quoting: CheesenessWhilst stats of Wine users as a separate metric may be of value in some respects, I think it would undermine the efforts and recognition of people actually running native software if the numbers were to be mixed with people running software that pretended to be Windows

Yes, that is my point. Thanks. Oh wait...

Ah, no. You misunderstand. I think it would undermine the efforts and recognition of people actually running native software if the numbers of people running native software were mixed with people running software that pretended to be Windows.

Quoting: Anonymous

Quoting: Cheesenessand in the end make for less accurate data rather than more accurate as you claim.

So I say if I'm using wine, that I should count as linux. You say that wine stats should not be mixed with windows stats, which seems to be in agreement with me. Then you say I'm wrong? How does that work?

No, I'm saying that Wine user stats should not be mixed with Linux user stats, that they should be included in Windows stats, and that there would be value in having an entirely separate measurement of Wine vs native Windows users.

Quoting: Anonymous

Quoting: CheesenessIMO, championing Wine usage stats is a trap.

Which is why there shouldn't be any. It should count as linux, because that's the OS you're running. Who, besides you, ever mentioned such a thing as stats for wine?

You (or another Anonymous user) did:

Quoting: AnonymousTo save time, let me just tell you that a company questioning whether or not to port a game to linux would want to know how many potential new customers they could get for their efforts. In that respect, someone running a linux OS is what matters. The fact that a gamer is using a workaround to play something is irrelevant in the course of having accurate data to base that decision on.

Please refer to my previous post for reasons why this reasoning may be flawed (namely, that from a business perspective, if a Linux user has already bought a game, they don't represent a new market that a native version would gain sales from).

Quoting: Anonymous

Quoting: HamishWe need to show that there is a native market on Linux if they are going to be convinced to make a change.

THAT

IS

MY

POINT

Are you certain that that is your point? Hamish is saying that we need to show that there is a market of people who don't use Wine, something that would be misrepresented by the presence of Wine users in the Linux Steam stats.

Quoting: AnonymousWhy do you keep twisting it and telling me I've got everything ass backwards, then espouse the exact same thing I just said? What is wrong with both of you?

Nothing is wrong with either of us - in fact, we're being awfully patient with what is coming across as a very abrasive attitude :)

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