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Folks, there is a basic point you all may have forgotten where gog.com does differ from both Steam AND Desura which I believe is VITAL to keeping a clean computer (having learned much from M$ Windows$): The big difference between gog.com and the others (Desura, Steam, and probably many more) is this: you don't have to install a client. I don't know about you but in my experience that is BIG. Its really not possible to say that Steam and Desura are totally DRM free because all require you to install a client. gog.com does not. The problem with installing anything other than the game is you have a 3rd party who you have no idea what stuff they are installing in your system, similar to other DRMs. While Steam and Desura may not use DRMs that are as infectious, their purpose is to track what you download on your computer and report back to them at a minimum (and possibly add stuff depending on their policies and deals with partners). Otherwise, why bother with the client? There could be all kinds of "stuff" the clients installers leave lying in your profiles. Has any Steam or Desura user done a file diff on their accounts after removing their Steam or Desura download clients? Point is, no 3rd party provider is truly DRM free unless they don't require you to install a client. gog.com is the only group I've found so far that doesn't require this so I've gotten quite a few things from them before more Linux options were available. Now that they are, I've told gog.com my support drops unless they catch up with Desura and Steam in the Linux availability. (and voted of course). Now that the client installer issues is on the table, can anybody confirm what is installed by these clients and what is removed upon uninstall and what is left behind to "tag" you? Only that will confirm whether either Steam or Desura is truly DRM free (regardless of whether the game itself is). We can all download using virtual machines I suppose, but what a hassle...

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Quoting: Mike FrettI recently got into Desura, I like the way the client works by offering me only games that work on my platform, Linux. I wish Steam would do that also, I can't count the number of times I almost bought a game because I unknowingly rambled into a different platform.

And to my surprise, Desura seems to have a lot more games that Steam just doesn't have. Even some AAA titles like Fallout and Freespace. I really like it and Steam is turning out to be a letdown for me as far as Games I want to play.

Yeah, Desura is a no-brainer here.

They have a serious messaging problem;  Steam people see it as weird and small, with some old games like GOG.  GOG people see it as DRM (it is not!).  For heaven's sake, if the developer bothers to post one, it even lets you download a GOG-like installer for any platform, directly off the webpage, no desktop client required.

And the desktop client?  If someone doesn't actually believe that it will be DRM-free, they can just read the sources... because the desktop client is GPL3.  I really can't see what more they could possibly do make the point more clear that they are cool & different.  :-(

inXile entertainment is pretty much ahead in this, and Wasteland 2 is announced to be on Desura.  That's where I'll redeem my copy.

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Quoting: FutureSuture

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: Kame

Quoting: liamdaweActually the difference here is that gog.com's downloaders once downloaded will still work (you could backup your collection).

If Steam went down you don't have that choice since your game downloads are tied directly to their client?

Not exactly sure what you're saying here? If steam went down you'd still be able to play any games which the devs didn't put drm into.

I don't know about you but I don't have every game I own on Steam downloaded, what would happen if it went down - I wouldn't be able to download my games and play them.

It's a risk we all take and it is a risk.

What I believe he is saying, Liam, is that there are in fact some games which do not require the Steam client to run. I have never tested this, only heard of it, and it's likely only a small minority that benefit from being DRM free.

Yes, that's correct. An example of such a game is Faster Than Light. It has no DRM and you can run it even without the Steam client running.

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BTW you can join me in showing Linux support here: http://steamcommunity.com/app/222880/discussions/0/828937420143124641/

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Hm, seems I really have misunderstood you. I guess this is mainly because you made an example that your phone is also a PC which is to some extent correct but does not match the common term.
I guess many developer have the problem that they usually target a specific platform and for gaming console the platform implies the operating system (e.g. XBox360, PS3). For the PC this is different but honestly I understand their implication: The majority of PCs today (still) runs Microsoft operating systems. Funny enough Macs today are technically PCs but are mentioned as "Mac" :)

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Beyond all that, I think we should all stop being pedants and speak about the damn game. :) I for one am very happy this is coming to Linux as I love FPS games, especially the quasi-realistic type (sims never did it for me). :D

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The reason I say 'Linux' instead of GNU/Linux is precisely due to what TC said. Also, Holger, the GNU project specifically says you should not call it 'GNU Linux' because the Linux kernel is not a GNU project - the equivalent is GNU HURD. That's why the put a forward slash or plus sign between them.

Anyway, I pointed out why PC is used in this way. It indeed doesn't necessarily mean Windows, but at the same time, Microsoft Windows is the only modern consumer-oriented operating system that is (IBM) PC-compatible. I still think they should say 'Windows' instead of 'PC', but to say that Windows is not 'PC' (just a shorthand for PC-compatible) is just wrong, in the same way that Linux as a 'PC' is right (it isn't, as Linux is POSIX-, not PC-compatible).

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I recently got into Desura, I like the way the client works by offering me only games that work on my platform, Linux. I wish Steam would do that also, I can't count the number of times I almost bought a game because I unknowingly rambled into a different platform.

And to my surprise, Desura seems to have a lot more games that Steam just doesn't have. Even some AAA titles like Fallout and Freespace. I really like it and Steam is turning out to be a letdown for me as far as Games I want to play.

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True, it's not just Linux.  It's not just GNU and Linux either.  Why stop at calling it "GNU/Linux"?  Why not call it "KDE/Qt/GTK/GNOME/X11/GNU/Linux"?  I think that I understand why Ubuntu dropped "Linux" entirely from their name and advertising materials.

Of course, I'm looking forward to more exciting games for my Linux-based PC, including Insurgency.

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Holger I'm not sure what you are getting at. You are saying PC is a common term...so am I.

The developers (and a lot of others) are saying PC = Windows which it does not.

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Quoting: OrkultusThey also didn't explain why TF2 took it's place at beta launch.

I think it's simple: TF2 is free: more testers ! (And nobody complaining it didn't work even though they paid.)

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Looks cool...Linux needs different shooters beside old stuff (Castle Wolfenstein) and the third variation of  a "futuristic shooter" (Xonotic, Q3A, OpenArena, Red Eclipse, etc).

QuoteAlthough one thing bugs me, please developers PLEASE stop saying "PC", you mean Windows. PC = Personal Computer which covers nearly everything nowadays. My phone is a PC for example.

Well, a PC is a common term. No matter what you consider a PC. In most western countries a PC simply means a standard computer based on x86 / x64 CPUs with the usual hardware (PCIe hardware, SATA HDD, etc). This makes a PC different from all those other computers available such as low-power Android systems, Tablets, etc.

For most peoples PC is not bound to the OS used but to the technology beneath.

I could also say please avoid the term "Linux" because this is just the kernel. GNU Linux would be the correct term. But since for most people "Linux" means the OS, we mostly use Linux as word.

I guess you get the picture !

Regards,
Holger

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WIN !! Good job GOL ;)

QuoteThanks to all of you who answered our poll. We've had a lot of conversations with Linux users and there was a strong feeling that Linux shouldn't be a stretch goal.  So we decided - we are going to do The Realm on Linux together with the Windows and Mac version as part of our normal release!

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Yey !, just  Yey :)

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At least they are getting the ports done :)

Looking forward to playing this again!

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Yeah i was wondering what took them so long. They also didn't explain why TF2 took it's place at beta launch.

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Yes, some games can be played without the Steam client, but the reason because I am avoiding Steam for now is because even if there are DRM free games there, there is no way to identify them. Or at least I do not know how to do it. I found some lists done by users, but none complete nor updated (nor reliable?).

And all the DRM free games in Steam I know can be purchased outside Steam. Unity of Command is my last acquisition. If Steam offers more exclusive DRM free games in the future I might reconsider my relationship with it though.

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Quoting: Mike FrettIf Valve was serious about Linux, they should tell Devs that in order to use their Engine, all platforms should be supported from day one since the Engine is native now. And I agree, PC covers pretty much everything and Platforms should be mentioned by name.

Sometimes I wish I had the money for a small Game making company. AAA Linux titles would be our top priority, we wouldn't leave any platform out, but Linux would be tops. Oh well, I can dream. =p

Beyond id Software in the 90s, I think Valve's investment in Linux is beyond proportion. The problem is that they do not release newer versions of their engine to third-party developers.

Also, the reason people say 'PC' instead of 'Windows' is historical; the term comes from PC-compatible though the GNU project naturally, and very hypocritically, has it on its enormous list of words to avoid - while at the same time calling keyboard shortcuts in their software by things like 'Meta' only because LISP Machines had them (they were never a standard or anything).

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Not meaning it in a negative way but:
Got about time that the game we got to see first, got ported last :)(sorta to speak)

Quote from Monkey Island: Cruse of MonkeyIsland: Kenny Falmouth "O boy O boy O boy"

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I have found this game, thanks to you, and have chosen Galactic Edition, for Alpha access. :)

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QuoteWe do not yet have a DRM-free distribution partner for Linux yet, but we expect to have one available as an option by the time we ship for our Linux customers.

Well, how about Gameolith or Desura? :)


As for Steam, I can confirm that at least "Dynamite Jack" and "The book of unwritten tales" work without it. I'm quite sure there are a lot more.
(Although Dynamite Jack seemed to lag from time to time. I'm guessing it was because of trying to access the net/steam to synchronize achievements or other stuff.)

The one thing I haven't tested is trying to "install" a game downloaded through Steam. Being able to somehow download DRM/Steam-free installers for multiple platforms would be nice.

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If Valve was serious about Linux, they should tell Devs that in order to use their Engine, all platforms should be supported from day one since the Engine is native now. And I agree, PC covers pretty much everything and Platforms should be mentioned by name.

Sometimes I wish I had the money for a small Game making company. AAA Linux titles would be our top priority, we wouldn't leave any platform out, but Linux would be tops. Oh well, I can dream. =p

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Quoting: FutureSutureWhat I believe he is saying, Liam, is that there are in fact some games which do not require the Steam client to run. I have never tested this, only heard of it, and it's likely only a small minority that benefit from being DRM free.

I haven't been able to try Steam but I also read about that. If that's the case I would like to know for sure which games will work without the Steam client before trying and still they could stop you from doing so after some update. I see services like Steam more like renting than buying, you can get some games DRM-free now without even knowing because there's no promise they will always work.

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And this is really coming to Linux? Looks pretty good! Graphics look nice and the gameplay intriguing. I hope it's not much like Counter-Strike: Source for I just cannot wrap my head around that game.

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Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: Kame

Quoting: liamdaweActually the difference here is that gog.com's downloaders once downloaded will still work (you could backup your collection).

If Steam went down you don't have that choice since your game downloads are tied directly to their client?

Not exactly sure what you're saying here? If steam went down you'd still be able to play any games which the devs didn't put drm into.

I don't know about you but I don't have every game I own on Steam downloaded, what would happen if it went down - I wouldn't be able to download my games and play them.

It's a risk we all take and it is a risk.

Right, which is no different from GOG, which is the point I was trying to make.

(and yes actually, I do have all of my steam games downloaded :p)

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Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: Kame

Quoting: liamdaweActually the difference here is that gog.com's downloaders once downloaded will still work (you could backup your collection).

If Steam went down you don't have that choice since your game downloads are tied directly to their client?

Not exactly sure what you're saying here? If steam went down you'd still be able to play any games which the devs didn't put drm into.

I don't know about you but I don't have every game I own on Steam downloaded, what would happen if it went down - I wouldn't be able to download my games and play them.

It's a risk we all take and it is a risk.

What I believe he is saying, Liam, is that there are in fact some games which do not require the Steam client to run. I have never tested this, only heard of it, and it's likely only a small minority that benefit from being DRM free.

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Quoting: liamdaweI hate it when poll results aren't public. Sounds great though.

Normally, I'd agree with that, but I've too often seen non-Linux backers of crowdfunding projects claim that Linux support is a waste of resources and start begging developers to not support it. In this case, I think it's for the best that results aren't made available prior to any decisions being made (I will ask them if they'll make the results available after any outcomes have been decided upon, though).

Edit: Somebody beat me to updating the thread! An announcement has been made regarding Linux support.

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Quoting: Kame

Quoting: liamdaweActually the difference here is that gog.com's downloaders once downloaded will still work (you could backup your collection).

If Steam went down you don't have that choice since your game downloads are tied directly to their client?

Not exactly sure what you're saying here? If steam went down you'd still be able to play any games which the devs didn't put drm into.

I don't know about you but I don't have every game I own on Steam downloaded, what would happen if it went down - I wouldn't be able to download my games and play them.

It's a risk we all take and it is a risk.

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Quoting: liamdaweActually the difference here is that gog.com's downloaders once downloaded will still work (you could backup your collection).

If Steam went down you don't have that choice since your game downloads are tied directly to their client?

Not exactly sure what you're saying here? If steam went down you'd still be able to play any games which the devs didn't put drm into.

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Quoting: FutureSutureI know Liam isn't very fond of GOG due to their stance on Linux, and I myself haven't spent any money with them for months now either, but still, voting can only help.

By all means vote but yes I don't think very highly of gog.com for their silly stance on Linux (although I do use them for old titles you can't get anywhere else, I actually had 7 games from them - I won't pirate games).

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