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Carmack is discussing things with businessmen though, which part of the problem. See the quote I highlighted. Taken in those terms I can understand why he has decided upon the direction he has taken, even if it makes me dislike the Zenimax acquisition even more. I can also understand even more why TTimo jumped ship.

Still, as a side note, has anyone else here read David Kushner's excellent book Masters of Doom? I think that should be required reading for anyone before they attempt to make a character assassination of either Carmack or Romero.

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This comment from Carmack just proves he's thinking like a businessman, the big numbers is all that matters and we haven't still proved we can reach them:
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/17x0sh/john_carmack_asks_why_wine_isnt_good_enough/c89sfto

He focuses on GNU/Linux alone, avoiding the much broader picture of multi-platform development for a variety of Linux based systems. Users and developers would highly benefit from a standard multi-platform library layer, that layer can't be Wine and he doesn't really seem to be interested in such thing at all.

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I think people need to tone down some of the hate that is being thrown about though. He is not being as unreasonable as some people are making out. Read his reddit post:
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/17x0sh/john_carmack_asks_why_wine_isnt_good_enough/c89sfto

That is not to say that I agree with his WINE comments, but I think some of the bile that is making it's rounds around the net is uncalled for. Especially since people need to take into account this comment here:

QuoteHowever, I don’t think that a good business case can be made for officially supporting Linux for mainstream games today, and Zenimax doesn’t have any policy of “unofficial binaries” like Id used to have. I have argued for their value (mostly in the context of experimental Windows features, but Linux would also benefit), but my forceful internal pushes have been for the continuation of Id Software’s open source code releases, which I feel have broader benefits than unsupported Linux binaries.

And he is actually exactly right about the fact that the source code releases are more important - I would rather have access to a games source code be made available than a single port to a single platform any day. Especially since in doing so it decouples the games from Steamworks or any other potential forms of DRM. I am still waiting for the day I can play Rage natively on my machine without the Steamworks requirement, like what is possible with Doom3: BFG already. This idea I support fully

I do not support the idea of WINE as a primarily means for gaming however. I do use it and recognize it's value, but I am also well aware it's shortfalls. The sound is not working for me at the moment, and for the longest time doing anything with it (like launching FirstClass so I could send off my school assignments) would bork my sound server (it has now thankfully settled down somewhat and simply does not work without borking anything else). And there are so many other technical and practical reasons why his proposal is a bad idea, from increased overheard, worse support, and of course the message it sends out.

TTimo said it well. :)

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The argument against this guy is simple:  using wine discourages game developers from making real Linux ports.  Real Linux ports mean better support.  id has done nothing but spew garbage from their mouths over the past year about Linux, so I wish they would shut up already.

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It's surprising seeing someone so technical as Carmack saying that, although maybe not that surprising since he's been praising things like Direct3D. He sometimes seems more commercially focused than technically.

Wine is a wrong idea for anything serious simply because is a reverse-engineering project. It will always lag behind the real product and will fail to be a perfect replacement. It does very weird things to try to work around some serious challenges with no optimal solution.

In the past, Carmack gained a reputation as someone pushing the envelope for technical excelence, now this comment makes him look bad. Problems with AMD drivers? Did he stop developing Quake2 or Quake3 because of drivers problems or did he stop using DirectX when it didn't work? No, he pushed for these to work better.

What about Rage for the iPhone? It sounds like a joke, but he did it.

He used to say that making cross-platform programming helped find issues in the code and fix them, so it made better code. Maybe he's found better ways to do that but I think going multi-platform is working for many indie developers, it's maybe easier than ever, it's profitable, it helps your sales in a world no longer dominated by Windows and with several Linux based systems emerging. Doesn't he see that?

For me it's just that he doesn't need it, he already earns lots money supporting the most popular platforms and some others per request. He goes where the big money is. Good for him but I don't see the need for excuses.

I don't play Wine games, I used it for some old games but now I prefer to play native games and support developers that care about their product quality and user satisfaction.

Limbo started with problems but they finally fixed it. It plays really well for me and I didn't mind doing an exception since I had already bought it, but I wonder if they wouldn't have been better doing a native port. Maybe it wouldn't have been much more work and wouldn't have looked like a hack.

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Quoting: s_dI thought that the Desurium client RC1 already solved this by exposing 32-bit games to 32-bit client builds, and exposing 32-bit & 64-bit games to 64-bit builds.  Better ask Cheese, Liam!  He's all up in that 

Interesting... I remember reading on Ubuntu Forums that Desurium lacked the ability to filter games according to your platform. I should definitely give it a try, then.

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I thought that the Desurium client RC1 already solved this by exposing 32-bit games to 32-bit client builds, and exposing 32-bit & 64-bit games to 64-bit builds.  Better ask Cheese, Liam!  He's all up in that :)

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Frag yeah! Installed it as soon as I saw your tweet.
Even though I suck at CSS still think it's an epic game. (and something that'll be on my school pc in no-time ;) )

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Beginning to wonder if Carmack is just trolling now

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And yes, I certainly did vote!  + OGL3, + 64-bit only, + 8GB RAM, - new computer (in case anyone cares).

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Hm.  Big surprise, the poll is coming up to around 20% "no" and 80% "yes" (currently 17/83%), which coincidentally is approximately the split on the stretch goal poll, where we requested Linux & Mac support.

In fact, it appears to have degraded some from the 20-21% during the campaign, as Mac & Linux fans' attention has wandered elsewhere.  Why would anyone expect that to change?  First, it's a poll of those who (for the most part) have already pledged for Windows, and the lion's share of them wouldn't notice whether it's DX11 or OGL3.

My prediction is that Roberts will point to these numbers to show that there "wasn't enough community interest" if they're ever asked to justify why he chose the path he did (which will obviously not be portability).

><

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i looked those few days ago and im still wondering that were are the other linux distros counted?
i mean there are lots of Fedora, Debian and Arch users, as well as Gentoo and Mint and Suse

will Mint be Counted as Ubuntu? when i used Mint it had its own name under the hardware info.
same with my current Arch Linux, it shows the name there.

so my bet is that half of the Other Category is other linux distros and half of it is the rest of the weird operating systems/wine..

Edit: also as time passes im sure they will make the info to count the linux distros as Linux and Linux 64bit.
then have a separate Linux category where all the distro usage is counted.

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Done! I really wish to see Far Cry one day on Linux.

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Please report bugs to the bugs forum and tell me how to reproduce.

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offtopic: liamdawe can you fix your site as well. or maybe only i have that bug.
every time new replay(comment) has been entered into the news article and i refresh the page it throws me error which asks me to go back to the index and then i can check the link again.

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Their main website annoys me as well, the fact that I have to manually subscribe to a game to receive news in my notifications about it even when I own it as well.
When you buy a game you should be then subscribed to it.

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There's no way to change your selected platform on Desura's official client, right? Maybe uninstalling the 64bit client and installing the 32bit one? (just feeling too lazy to try it myself...)

For what it's worth, here's the complete list of 32bit-only games that don't show without tweaking your platform selection (13 in total):

· Battlemass
· Blue Libra 2
· CAFÉ 0 ~The Drowned Mermaid~
· Cube MetalHeart - Sauerbraten Extended
· Exodus Wars: Fractured Empire
· Incursion
· Livalink
· Revenge Of The Cats: Ethernet
· Running with Rifles
· Solar War
· Super Space Rubbish
· The Real Texas
· Zombie Grinder

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Just FYI all commenters, indiecity will be doing it in a much more sane way and just putting 32bit or 64bit in the system requirements area and not split them into two platforms :)

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Holy cow you are right, good find but honestly only including Linux 32bit selection from a link inside a real small pop up most will ignore...sigh.

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Article updated with a view from TTimo former id employee!

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Its found by selecting a platform at the top bar. It'll pop up saying Now browsing "platform" if you want you can manage your platforms which is linked to that page.

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Yeah I updated the article to have it :), can't see it linked from anywhere on the Desura website though.

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how do u change that
i only see option to linux64, windows and mac

edit: nvm that link in the first post

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I didn't even know that existed which is bad, I will change mine now so I don't miss anything but my god what a stupid way to do it.

I have now changed it and more games have appeared thank god, although now it doesn't highlight my platform select at all on the top right on the Desura website, they really need to sort this out.

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I actually noticed this a long time ago. Fixed it the same way as avarisclari: went to "manage my platform selection" and selected 32bit instead of 64bit.

I could be wrong, but I believe someone did make a topic in their forums about this before. I didn't see much reason to repeat post cause, let's be honest, the Desura website desperately needs an upgrade anyway. Unlike the Desurium client which is coming along nicely, the service-side is falling behind. Showing 32bit/64bit is only one of their problems...

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Your where talking about Desura, it has no DRM and that is what I stated.

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From one side, this is a really good idea. Why? Look at the Mac - on this market, huge companies use Cider (utility from TransGaming which is basically something like CrossOver/Wine) to release official game ports. Companies like EA, Ubisoft, Activision and Bioware! Why wouldn't this work in case of Wine? This is also how PlayOnLinux works - it uses precise Wine version with precise settings, ensuring functioning on any Linux machine.

The failure with Limbo in Humble Indie Bundle V occured most likely just because they didn't beta-test the port properly before.

There are of course many drawbacks of this solution as well. Like, most of all, making game developers ignoring Linux as an independent platform. And, of course, the risk of Microsoft sueing CodeWeavers (CrossOver/Wine developers) for abusing on of their patents.

EDIT:

Oh, and here is the list of Cider-powered games: http://transgaming.com/cider/games

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Quoting: Bumadarit might have a few issues but at least its no DRM and truly for all linux flavors.  Heck its even open source now   I love it, thanks for the heads up though on the 64/32 bit

Desura itself has no DRM but developers are free to put DRM in installers for games on Desura FYI.

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it might have a few issues but at least its no DRM and truly for all linux flavors.  Heck its even open source now :)  I love it, thanks for the heads up though on the 64/32 bit :)

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Quoting: avarisclariI haven't had an issue with it, as even my 32 games ARE showing with my 64. I dunno what I'm doing different. Never mind, I remember now. I "managed my platform selection" so that 32 bit games show up instead of 64 so I see all Linux games.

So when you login, up the top right on the Linux icon do you have 32 or 64 on the Linux icon?

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