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Sorry, I was always referring to the developers. I only mentioned the HB team because I think they could take over the developers in the ports they do, but it's not that they are required to. I hope I haven't messed it up even more.

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Quoting: "Hamish, post: 7474, member: 6"His death seemed to contribute very little as we did not need anymore reason to dislike Maximillain, who had been screwing them out of their jobs by getting them to hunt for the asteroid and was now even threatening to fire them for it.

Ah, but it's not about us, it's about John, who's depicted with a fairly level headed and slow-to-anger type persona - without that catalyst, his actions would have been out of character (at least, from my interpretation of him). I'll admit that it was unduly ignored throughout the rest of the game, and could have been used to bring a little more gravitas when the plot called for it.

Quoting: "Hamish, post: 7474, member: 6"Still, it is not like I really minded the death, but to me it just added to the notion that the plot seemed a little haphazard. Still, thank you for arguing with me about it; I always wanted these things to engender some real discussions about the games. ;)

My pleasure ^_^
I also haven't played it with a review in mind though - I was too busy enjoying it on my first run through to cast a critical eye over it.

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Fresh !?! it's pre-century warfare :)
I like 4-5 red orchestra.

I see no more single bolt rifles ?

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Quoting: "Cheeseness, post: 7473, member: 122"I'm not sure I agree with some of your story critique - the death towards the end of the first act of the game signals a shift in tone and stakes. It doesn't really seem out of place with the game's pacing, and serves to provide motivation for John's actions and attitudes throughout the rest of the game.

While I can see your point, I still do not agree mostly because it does not seem to add much to the game. His death seemed to contribute very little as we did not need anymore reason to dislike Maximillain, who had been screwing them out of their jobs by getting them to hunt for the asteroid and was now even threatening to fire them for it. Now granted, Zander did not really have any other purpose but to give a noble death, but with Maximilian screwing them and then sending the wild boys after them, his only purpose in life (and death) seemed to contribute virtually nothing of inherent value to the plot. It is not like it really builds up to anything later in the game, other then his vague musings about the connectedness of everything before he snuffed it, and if anything the game gets lighter as it goes along not darker, so to me it just makes things seem incongruous. It is like everyone simply forgot about it, except for when John needs to take Switchblade. It seemed to me to go like this: we kill off a potential main character, and then we spend the rest of the game making bambi jokes. :P

Still, it is not like I really minded the death, but to me it just added to the notion that the plot seemed a little haphazard. Still, thank you for arguing with me about it; I always wanted these things to engender some real discussions about the games. ;)

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Finally got around to reading. Great review :)

I'm not sure I agree with some of your story critique - the death towards the end of the first act of the game signals a shift in tone and stakes. It doesn't really seem out of place with the game's pacing, and serves to provide motivation for John's actions and attitudes throughout the rest of the game. I'll agree that the ending is a little lacklustre though - it feels awfully like the game ended before it was ready. I spent a little bit of time hunting around after completing the game to see if there was an alternative ending for getting all of the collectibles (something that isn't visibly tracked in the DRM free/Linux version of the game due to its reliance on Steamworks).

A lack of configuration options seems to be a hallmark of Unity titles from what I can tell. Splice suffers from this as well (though apparently that has a launcher with configuration options that isn't included in the Linux version). I ran Rochard in windowed mode and didn't have any resolution problems at all.

All up, I found Rochard to be an unexpected gem, and it kept me captivated enough to finish in one sitting back when the HIB 6 launched (still looking forward to finding time for a second playthrough).

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Quoting: "berarma, post: 7471, member: 131"If that's how it works then there's more reasons to be more strict about quality and bugs being fixed in time, they should be held accountable for that while possible.

Not really. As I said before, I haven't seen a Humble contract, but I am certain that it's the developers who would be signing off on a finished port (so again that's their responsibility).

In case it's not clear, I'm saying it's inappropriate for us as customers to have expectations of porters. They still have obligations to do good work according to their contracts, but that's an internal thing between them and the developers, not us. If a developer's not happy with the work that's been done, they're always free to follow up whatever recourse there might be and get somebody else in to do the job properly, so (for us) the developers are still to blame even if a porter did a poor job.

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Quoting: "Cheeseness, post: 7468, member: 122"Since urkle only recently became an employee of Humble Bundle (as I understand it), then only the titles from the last bundle would fit that description.

I don't think it's wise to put responsibility on the porters. Ultimate responsibility has to lie with the developers - if they themselves aren't interested, updates won't happen. Post bundle, they're the ones calling the shots, handing out the money, and setting the general attitude. Contractors generally don't have a lot of control over what they do and don't do.

If that's how it works then there's more reasons to be more strict about quality and bugs being fixed in time, they (the developers) should be held accountable for that while possible.

My guess was that some ports could be somewhat licensed to the HB. I'd like to see that for titles sold in the bundle from devs not interested in our platform and keep selling them after the bundle. Maybe I'm going too far.

EDIT: Minor clarification.

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That's great to hear that some of icculus' prior work had found its way into the official Mac port. When UE3 Mac support was announced, he was under the impression that they'd started from scratch.

Since this didn't happen, it suggests that Epic still consider icculus' prior work to be a usable asset, potentially making a Linux port a more attractive solution (more attractive than starting from scratch) if they ever decided to make that happen.

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Sales on Desura expires:

[URL='http://www.desura.com/games/gentrieve-2']Gentrieve 2[/URL] 7,99€ 3,99€
[URL='http://www.desura.com/games/amnesia-the-dark-descent']Amnesia: The Dark Descent[/URL] 14,99€ 7,49€ [COLOR=#808080]12 hours left![/COLOR]
[URL='http://www.desura.com/games/cubemen']Cubemen[/URL] 3,99€ 1,59€ [COLOR=#808080]16 hours left![/COLOR]
[URL='http://www.desura.com/games/hacker-evolution-duality']Hacker Evolution: Duality[/URL] 14,95€ 3,74€ [COLOR=#808080]24 hours left![/COLOR]
[URL='http://www.desura.com/games/hack-slash-loot']Hack, Slash, Loot[/URL] 5,99€ 2,39€ [COLOR=#808080]36 hours left![/COLOR]
[URL='http://www.desura.com/games/ogs-mahjong']OGS Mahjong[/URL] 5,99€ 2,39€ [COLOR=#808080]4 days left![/COLOR]
[URL='http://www.desura.com/games/in-space']in Space[/URL] 2,49€ 2,24€ [COLOR=#808080]over 4 days left![/COLOR]
[URL='http://www.desura.com/games/helena-the-3rd']Helena the 3rd [/URL]3,99€ 3,19€

Look also at Steam (prices below are for germany, in others contries they can be differents)

[URL='http://store.steampowered.com/app/41070/?snr=1_230_linux__204']Serious Sam 3: BFE[/URL] 9,99€ 75%
[URL='http://store.steampowered.com/app/22000/?snr=1_230_linux__204']World of Goo[/URL] 2,24€ 75%
[URL='http://store.steampowered.com/app/1520/?snr=1_230_linux__204']Defcon[/URL] 2,49€ 75%
[URL='http://store.steampowered.com/app/107200/?snr=1_230_linux__204']Space Pirates and Zombies [/URL]3,06€[COLOR=#000000] 66%[/COLOR]
[URL='http://store.steampowered.com/app/98800/']Dungeons of Dredmor[/URL] 1,24€ 75%
[URL='http://store.steampowered.com/app/204180/?snr=1_230_linux__204']Waveform[/URL] 1,37€ 75%
[URL='http://store.steampowered.com/app/206690/?snr=1_230_linux__204']iBomber Defence[/URL] 0,99€ 75%
[URL='http://store.steampowered.com/app/26500/?snr=1_230_linux__204']COGS [/URL]2,24€ 75%
[URL='http://store.steampowered.com/app/44200/?snr=1_230_linux__204']Galcon Fusion[/URL] 2,24€ 75%
[URL='http://store.steampowered.com/app/1510/?snr=1_230_linux__204']Uplink[/URL] 2,49€ 75%

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Quoting: "berarma, post: 7459, member: 131"Back to the lack of support issue, they should be more strict about quality at launch time, specially when the port isn't done by the HB team.

Since urkle only recently became an employee of Humble Bundle (as I understand it), then only the titles from the last bundle would fit that description.

I don't think it's wise to put responsibility on the porters. Ultimate responsibility has to lie with the developers - if they themselves aren't interested, updates won't happen. Post bundle, they're the ones calling the shots, handing out the money, and setting the general attitude. Contractors generally don't have a lot of control over what they do and don't do.

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Anyone here think that it is just a coincidence that Epic stopped supporting Linux after signing with Microsoft as a publisher?

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When something doesn't make sense at this level (UT3 for Linux), you can be assured that there's a lawyer involved.

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God, why did Epic have to fuck this up so badly? If they just used the Linux port and used the Linux parts as well it would be much nicer for all of us, but of course, they had to first cancel all ports, then suddenly bring Mac on, and then even more of a mess. I bet that now they'll release the Linux support because of Steam, just like with Mac.

I just bloody hope they'll have cross-platform stuff in in UE4, to avoid such a mess...

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The Steam distro friendly stuff will come soon, some of the fixes for their next build helps towards supporting other distros.

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Still that would require some kind of deal with HB. And probably access to the sources for quite a bunch of games, which means some kind of deal with the devs too. And publishers where applicable. Can't say I don't like the sound of it though. xD

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Quoting: "Cheeseness, post: 7456, member: 122"The thing is though, the Humble Bundle guys are probably in a prime position to assemble a translation team (in house, external, community driven, etc. - whatever method used, the ongoing/regular nature would help bring responsibility/accountability that could ensure decent translations) that they could offer/contract out to bundle participants. It would be pretty neat to see them raise the bar for indie games a bit by encouraging/requiring participants to have a minimum set of translations.

Definitely a good idea. humblebundle.fr anyone? ;)

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I'd rather not. I make no assumption as to what isn't in my hands. Just like I don't get my hopes up too fast after backing a project on Kickstarter or Indiegogo. Their having the means to fix it has nothing to do with their will, ability or time to fix it. Unfortunately.

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Quoting: "Cheeseness, post: 7456, member: 122"The thing is though, the Humble Bundle guys are probably in a prime position to assemble a translation team (in house, external, community driven, etc. - whatever method used, the ongoing/regular nature would help bring responsibility/accountability that could ensure decent translations) that they could offer/contract out to bundle participants. It would be pretty neat to see them raise the bar for indie games a bit by encouraging/requiring participants to have a minimum set of translations.

Waveform's translations were crowdsourced and that turned out really well by all reports.

I'd like that to happen. I think they could reach more people in more countries and provide a valuable and reliable service to indies.

Back to the lack of support issue, they should be more strict about quality at launch time, specially when the port isn't done by the HB team. We can't live on promises that games will be fixed some time. I assume the HB team doesn't lie when they say they'll eventually fix their ports.

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Oh god, I tried to help with translating Waveform but it's a google document and it was painful. Why can't they just provide nice potfiles? Bah, I never got a reply from them anyway...

Anyway, if Humble were to provide such an effort it would be indeed great, but only if they either made a new system for translation (ridiculous idea) or used something like the Launchpad module or that other thing that Virtaal is part of the project.

I think I'll start doing that stuff on PCG next week or so. But I'm still engrossed with the other project of theirs.

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Can't really say about Waveform, I got it on Steam, and it looks to be English only.
That's usually the first thing I check: the French localization. And it is a very uncommon occurence that I leave it on (without going through it myself if I have the time and the game looks good enough for my daughters). Hopefully they update the game and it is a nice surprise indeed, but I certainly won't bet my life on that... You'd be surprised how people are content with crappy, verbatim translations (and how devs sometimes don't seem to give a hoot when you notify them of a sloppy job).
But I could tell you a truckload of stories. See Harvest: Massive Encounter for example. Over 10 mistakes, typos and horrors (not errors, horrors) just on the title screen.

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Quoting: "Anon, post: 7453"If anyone else is up for this, great, I'm definitely going to have a go at this soon. But there's a different problem entirely first - it doesn't have page for most of those games, so we'll need to do that first as well.

Fantastic. I'd be keen to contribute (and cite it in future writings).

Quoting: "Anon, post: 7453"Hm, I can't find it, is it on flibit's twitter or someone else's?

flibit's tagged in it, but it was the developer who tweeted, I believe. It was also discussed elsewhere (but I can't remember now).

Quoting: "Hyeron, post: 7455, member: 223"There's some truth to that... But OTOH
* You have to pay translators
* You can't be sure that they're good

The thing is though, the Humble Bundle guys are probably in a prime position to assemble a translation team (in house, external, community driven, etc. - whatever method used, the ongoing/regular nature would help bring responsibility/accountability that could ensure decent translations) that they could offer/contract out to bundle participants. It would be pretty neat to see them raise the bar for indie games a bit by encouraging/requiring participants to have a minimum set of translations.

Waveform's translations were crowdsourced and that turned out really well by all reports.

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There's some truth to that... But OTOH
* You have to pay translators
* You can't be sure that they're good

Cost and uncertainty. I've been re-translating here and there for... well, zilch, whereas the devs had paid the original localization (and I won't go into the details or this post is going to become a dictionary of insults).
You can't say you'll find good translators working for cheap or free just by lifting the stone at your feet, unfortunately.
Then, yes, there are devs who aren't interested in that business. At all. Even if it would make perfect sense for them (see Runic).

Then there's the ridiculous kind. See Mojang for the details - where you release your next update when a moron has translated "nether" by "fluffy" in his target language. And I'm not even kidding.

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Interesting info and ideas.

QuoteHow much pressure/control should Humble try to exert over developers in that sort of situation? Could this be solved through better title selection? Are there ways to just make supporting ports more attractive? Are developers hearing about the problems with their ports? These are all questions that I hope the Humble Bundle guys are continually asking themselves.

Exactly the same happens on Windows when sales slow down for a title, updates slow down too. Some developers aren't selling their games out of the bundles, so their interest on updating is zero. Even the games being sold after the bundle won't make enough sales to make it count. There are a few devs really committed to their users that will make updates no matter how new sales go, but this happens on any platform, I guess.

Another issue that doesn't get much talk is localization. That's important in some countries. Even if I'd like to get some games for some people, or just hook them up I can't because the web is English-only and the lack of localization on several games.

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Hm, seems like PCG would be a good idea for this, but what info should we exactly include there? Status of ports, dlc support?

If anyone else is up for this, great, I'm definitely going to have a go at this soon. But there's a different problem entirely first - it doesn't have page for most of those games, so we'll need to do that first as well.

Hm, I can't find it, is it on flibit's twitter or someone else's?

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Desura is still more interesting than Steam from my point of view :
- Desura is Linux distribution friendly (I have OpenSUSE and I don't plan to move to Ubuntu)
- Some games are available in Desura, not in Steam (RuneSoft games, for instance)

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I'm liking where this discussion is headed.

PCGamingWiki.com might be a decent place for keeping track of the status of Humble titles. I'd be keen to help get the word out about such a thing (and try to make sure it's noticed by the Humble Bundle guys).

Hamish makes a really important point which I hadn't pushed so strongly in my article - the recent Windows only promotions (moreso the THQ bundle than the AF promotion as that was a) very clearly distinct from other stuff, and b) selling a look at Double Fine's prototyping workflows instead of just games) can be seen to be compound with already outstanding issues.

The other side of the coin is that it's up to the developers to decide whether to look after their Mac/Linux ports or not, and it's obvious that for some devs, once they disembark the Humble money train, Mac and Linux are no longer a priority.

How much pressure/control should Humble try to exert over developers in that sort of situation? Could this be solved through better title selection? Are there ways to just make supporting ports more attractive? Are developers hearing about the problems with their ports? These are all questions that I hope the Humble Bundle guys are continually asking themselves.

Quoting: "Anon, post: 7450"Btw., anyone have any idea what Flibit's lolno is? Or did he drop any hints about it? I'd love to know what is it since he's so secretive about it.

The developer pretty much mentioned it on Twitter a month or so back, so if you hunt around, you could probably work it out.


Edit: It may also be worth noting that there seems to be a bit of a correlation between titles that have outstanding issues and developers who didn't respond to me whilst I was researching for the article.

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Quoting: "liamdawe, post: 7449, member: 1"Well at least some of the titles are going to be worked on, considering HIB now has a full time Linux porter maybe they will get him to fix up older ones?

Hm, could someone shoot him an email? It'd be nice to know whether his going to fix up older ports or just the ones he said he'll work on. Either way, it will surely be better in the future because of this.

Btw., anyone have any idea what Flibit's lolno is? Or did he drop any hints about it? I'd love to know what is it since he's so secretive about it.

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Well at least some of the titles are going to be worked on, considering HIB now has a full time Linux porter maybe they will get him to fix up older ones?

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THIS is the main reason why the THQ bundle was such a shock, because frankly things are becoming a bit of mess, so giving people less of a reason to take us seriously is really distressing. This is not to say that we have not been given a lot, but the half-hearted here are really beginning to give the committed a bad name by association. Not all of this is Humble's fault, but if they were a school there would definitely be concerns about them sending out this amount of delinquents, to coin a phrase...

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For me the potential value of Steam will be demonstrated if I start seeing games that were ported to Linux for Steam become available through other services or directly from the developer. If there is one place where Humble Bundle was always a problem it was with the fact that many games disappeared after being in the Bundle; ironically enough many of these missing games may come out on Steam now. But the problem for me still persists as I want to play games on Linux and not games on Steam (which I could in theory live with) or especially Steamworks (which I can't). I have heard people assure me that this will happen and we will see something of a trickle down (to use a rather noxious metaphor) of titles appearing at other places, but 2013 will be the time to prove it.

I am glad for Liam commenting on the future of free drivers, but to be honest for me the free drivers have been fulfilling my needs for over a year. Every title I have thrown at them except Bastion (which I need to look into again) has been running great and this is all without Marek's recent awesomeness upstream or OpenGL 3. And this includes games like Trine 2, Amnesia, Torchlight, and Rochard which may not be the ultimate in graphics (well, except maybe Trine 2) but certainly are not leaving my hardware alone. For me it is Nvidia that is irrelevant, with great experiences with both my AMD hardware and my brother's Intel GMA on proper in-kernel drivers. I am certainly not interested in going back to the blobs anytime soon.

Thankfully Desura does seem to be more appealing in many ways to traditional Linux developers so it has an advantage there. It is great to see Runesoft putting in such interest for instance, and I hope that will be a relationship that developers want to continue. Desura has also not burned as many bridges as Valve has, and while Greenlight has been soothing some wounds, I do hope Desura can leverage that to keep it successful. It has certainly not been doing a bad job for itself, the need for a new proper client release aside.

We will see how many Kickstarters succeed but I honestly have no idea what will happen there. Things could go so many different ways.

So while not being all that enthused about things going in the next year, I can consider myself to be vaguely comfortable about things as matter stand.

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