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I dunno. I thoroughly enjoyed my GNU/Linux learning time, even though you could have heard me cursing my DSL modem all the way to Canberra. I think it has more to do with preconceptions and good will than becoming a novice again.
What could be interesting, as you point out, Cheeseness, is what the shift in average experience and expectations would be - and not just for communities. Perhaps a big influx of new blood would bring interesting ideas with it too. You never know. That would be quite a trial by fire for all DEs, to begin with. :)

And as far as hardware is concerned, I've seen both OS play tricks on me. GNU/Linux with the aforementioned modem, Windows with my graphics cards. Both can give you an awful experience at times. :D

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Quoting: "mcinsand, post: 6000"Don't anyone try to tell me that Windows has better hardware support or is easier to maintain. I know better!!! For technical and time demands, Windows just doesn't cut it.

I don't think Bumadar was saying that Windows is easier, just that the Linux experience is different.

One thing I've learned from watching people transition to Linux is that experienced computer users don't like becoming novices. IMO, Bumadar has raised a really important issue. Usually it's the patience and friendliness of individuals within F/OSS communities that helps people through that bumpy transition. If the ratios of experienced to inexperienced Linux users shifts dramatically, that'll have a noticeable impact both on the kinds of experiences that new users get, and on the kind of interactions experienced users have with the broader community.

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Bumadar wrote:

[INDENT=1]On another note, I mentioned this before, but what will happen to the Linux community when windows people will start using Linux because Steam brings out games for it, they will come into a totally different desktop experience and things not always run out of the box like they are used to, will the forums and the community be able to handle the comments/rants/expectations of all those new users ?[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1] [/INDENT]
Bumadar, did you just step out of a time machine from the late '90's? I avoided Linux for years because I believed outdated ideas, such as Linux needing more technical expertise than Windows. 8 years ago, Windows still had a slight edge, but that 'out-of-the' box advantage disappeared a couple of years later. For the past 3-4 years, Windows XP, Vista, and 7 have fallen very far behind when it comes to the tech skillset needed to install and maintain. I went to Linux because XP was unacceptably unstable for me, and I still run both Windows and Linux installs for friends several times a year. Windows installs are a royal pain, mainly for the need to check for drivers and hardware compatabilities, and this goes for current as well as hardware that's 3-4 years old. My luck has been that a Windows install will take 3-6 hours, where an Ubuntu or Fedora install will take 30-45 minutes. This also applied one day 3 years ago when I was installing Windows XP and Ubuntu side-by-side on new, freshly-purchased, identical hardware sets. The Windows install would have taken longer than 6 hours, but I gave up on the onboard audio driver and put in a PCI audio card as a shortcut. Even my first Slackware install last year was far, far easier than the Windows 7 install that I handled around the same time (the wireless card in Windows 7 was a NIGHTMARE, even though MS listed it as being Windows-7 ready!).

Don't anyone try to tell me that Windows has better hardware support or is easier to maintain. I know better!!! For technical and time demands, Windows just doesn't cut it.

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Quoting: "Qantourisc, post: 5970, member: 181"Does this means it's subscription based ?!?

Found the answer: http://www.interstellarmarines.com/forum/threads/id/2567/
It's not subscription based, it means: you will get any re-release (console, other platform,..) for free.

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Quoting: "Hamish, post: 5997, member: 6"To be fair, the assumption of large user growth might be nothing more than hot air.

Sure, it's speculation. It seems a pretty safe assumption that there will be a lot of curious people though, not to mention people who previously dual booted reassessing whether Linux is appropriate as an exclusive desktop OS.

Edit: It's interesting [URL='http://steamcommunity.com/actions/GroupList?sortby=SortByMembers&filter=ogg']to note[/URL] the rate at which the official Steam for Linux group has been growing without much promotion (it hasn't been featured in a Linux blog post yet, and people who aren't already interested in/following Valve's Linux efforts would be fairly unlikely to hear about it). It passed the official Skyrim group this morning.

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To be fair, the assumption of large user growth might be nothing more than hot air.

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Quoting: "Bumadar, post: 5978, member: 93"Valve did not really care for Linux until Microsoft mentioned the App Store and the simple fact that only App Store programs are allowed on the (metro) UI and that App Store programs are not allowed to install software on windows 8

This isn't really the case, since porting work had been going on since before Metro, etc. were announced. I imagine it put a bit of pressure on though (whether through genuine dislike or through the opportunity it might provide for facilitating a stronger Linux launch (their customers who're loyal to Windows are locked into using Steam by their game libraries, so Valve have nothing to lose and lots to gain by publicly talking about how bad they think Windows 8 is/will be regardless of whether that's a true representation of Valve's internal attitudes).

Quoting: "Bumadar, post: 5978, member: 93"On another note, I mentioned this before, but what will happen to the Linux community when windows people will start using Linux because Steam brings out games for it, they will come into a totally different desktop experience and things not always run out of the box like they are used to, will the forums and the community be able to handle the comments/rants/expectations of all those new users ?

This is a question I've been posing for a while. I think the answer will be no. We're not prepared, and it's going to end up being pretty overwhelming, both from the perspective of the drop in median skill levels, but also from the influx of people who don't know or don't want to know about the Free Software movement. I have no idea whether it's going to end up leading to positive or negative community experiences, but it's definitely going to be fairly intense for the first 6 to 12 months.

I wrote [URL='http://cheesetalks.twolofbees.com/tf2.php']an article[/URL] last year when Team Fortress 2 went "free to play", looking at some of the negative behaviours that had emerged. I think a lot of parallels can be drawn between the situations (at least at this early stage), and I suspect we'll see some similar dynamics where older users will become concerned with the changes in dominant attitudes/behaviours, and newcomers will feel alienated by that. I just hope that everybody is rational enough that it doesn't get as out of hand as TF2 community did for the first 3 to 6 months.

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Here get some more of the current crowdfunding games with confirmed or possible Linux version.

[URL='http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1857884659/distance-a-next-generation-arcade-racer']Distance[/URL] it's an arcade racer not the typical racing game (which is a genre of games that I don't like). This is a game made by the same people (atleast few of them) that created [URL='http://nitronic-rush.com/']Nitronic Rush[/URL]. They making the new version in Unity engine but unfortunately they aren't sure about Linux. Nobody on the team has expierience with it and they use the stable Unity not the Beta 4 and there is also [URL='http://www.audiokinetic.com/en/products/208-wwise']Wwise[/URL]. That's an audio middelware which supports pretty much everything besides Linux.

[URL='http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/betadwarf/forced']FORCED[/URL] is a fast-paced cooperative arena combat game. Another game powered by Unity with developers commited to releasing Linux version.

[URL='http://www.indiegogo.com/starforge']StarForge[/URL] is a game about gathering resources, building bases, crafting anything you want, and surviving on an alien planet. They plan to release StarForge for Windows and Mac (with possible Linux support after Unity 4 is released).

[URL='http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/43153532/strike-suit-zero']Strike Suit Zero[/URL] a space combar game. Unfortunately they included Mac and Linux as a stretch goal at $180 000 (that's $80 000 above the main goal).

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Oh god Ankh!!! I buy this at the moment they post it

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Quoting: "Hamish, post: 5989, member: 6"In a word: awesome! :D

I just hope they treat both Linux and Mac in fairly equal terms, since they have been primarily a Mac based porting house in the past.

They have taken at least two people on to fix up Linux ports ;), one of them does some of the LIFLG stuff.

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To be fair, we do not know what the prices will be for a digital download.

What I would really love is to see Hyperion Entertainment put some of their old games up, but I doubt that will ever happen.

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Quoting: "Bumadar, post: 5978, member: 93"Valve did not really care for Linux until Microsoft mentioned the App Store and the simple fact that only App Store programs are allowed on the (metro) UI and that App Store programs are not allowed to install software on windows 8. This simply means that in the long run (windows 9, 10 etc) it will be harder and harder for none App Store software to profile itself and Valve will eventually lose customers. They now looking for a new platform and that is Linux and that is great for us but if Microsoft changes its App Store rules (they already did with PEGI rating) I wonder what will happen then.

well, they can change their minds, something gpl2 licensed software is not prone to, so even more reason to join linux ranks.

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Great! But the pricing is a bit steep on those titles. I mean I can't justify 20€ on such old games, I'd much rather just drop some cash on Crusader Kings II.

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In a word: awesome! :D

I just hope they treat both Linux and Mac in fairly equal terms, since they have been primarily a Mac based porting house in the past.

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Ankh rocks !!!!!, good news indeed :)

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Quoting: "Bumadar, post: 5978, member: 93"On another note, I mentioned this before, but what will happen to the Linux community when windows people will start using Linux because Steam brings out games for it, they will come into a totally different desktop experience and things not always run out of the box like they are used to, will the forums and the community be able to handle the comments/rants/expectations of all those new users ?

This makes me think Windows must be perfect and totally problem-free. Actually, there are lots of webs dedicated to helping with Windows and gaming problems, and they're pretty populated. Besides, I know no Windows users getting used to things working out of the box, but they always know some friend... The biggest change for GNU/Linux communities might be that now our gurus will get a lot of friends. :)

I like to remember that doing things right, gaming can be easier than it is on Windows. So, ask developers to make it right and easy and we'll be succeeding. They learnt how to deal with a lot of garbage on Windows, now it should be easier to deal with good organisation on GNU/Linux. I understand they want to ensure compatility with well-known distros but I hope they soon stop targeting distros in their installers.

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Windows user had much less online support compared to Linux in the past, and they still preferred Redmond. Why? Because everyone was using it. Heck, they would all flock back to Win 3.11 if all companies and govt. facilities would require that for the job and if all entertainment was endorsing it.
I have a feeling that Valve will just inevitably disappear as a huge gaming name. Others will take over and gladly spew out terabytes of fancy games that are MS App Store only.
However, if played right, Valve can at least get Linux from 1% to 3% market share, especially if Steam stays desktop agnostic. Not sure how gamers will react to a platform that is missing EA, Blizzard, Ubisoft, et al., though. I am also not sure how they will react to the still very selected hardware Ubuntu can run on, and all the poorer performing drivers when compared to Windows.
Alternatively, we could see a lot of people making Win7 the new WinXP that will live on for another 15 years, until MS gets their feces together and brings out separate mobile and desktop UIs.

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They have an impressive catalogue, but they should definitely not overcharge for their last-century games. Introduce a price model like gog.com. I would love to buy "Feeble Files" or any of the "Ankh" titles for $5.

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A game is never geared towards a distribution, it's geared towards ONE version of a distribution. You are far better of targeting certain libs.

And I also don't like DRM, I also don't like Apple Phone or Android or Windows, there is still 1 alternative but if that doesn't work, I still need to pick one of those 3 :/
(Luckly I don't need a smartphone atm.)

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Maybe it is because I know my way around already, but the only Wiki I find to be up to snuff is the Arch wiki. I was never all that impressed with Ubuntu's documentation to be honest, and while it's forums are helpful, they are not alone in this and I find it a little off putting for people to state that they are.

Plus I do not think Ubuntu has made that huge a contribution to making things easier, but that may be a topic for another thread.

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It will be hard to tell really until later on next year when it's officially release into the wild anyway.

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I'm not too worried about that. I don't believe we'll see windows users with no prior experience migrating in droves. And even if that was to happen, most communities would do just fine. The only one that would probably witness a massive influx would be Ubuntu, and they have nice wikies and quite great and welcoming communities, if not always giving the best kind of support.

Those with hardware problems will turn back, some of the others will stay.

Business as usual, maybe on a bigger scale. Wait and see.

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Anyone who thinks otherwise to the fact that they are moving because of Windows App Store is blind, Valve said it themselves it's because Windows is getting more closed.

In recent years (mainly thanks to Ubuntu no less) it's easier for newbies to get help with Linux due to the Ubuntu Forums being heavily moderated for bitchyness. We are here as well if anyone ever needed help ;)

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Quoting: "liamdawe, post: 5974, member: 1"Looks like Windows 8 will be quite the dive-bomb I have been hoping for but who knows will Microsoft do a U-Turn and open up again a bit more...i doubt it, they want more revenue and their own store is the way to really do it these days.

Valve did not really care for Linux until Microsoft mentioned the App Store and the simple fact that only App Store programs are allowed on the (metro) UI and that App Store programs are not allowed to install software on windows 8. This simply means that in the long run (windows 9, 10 etc) it will be harder and harder for none App Store software to profile itself and Valve will eventually lose customers. They now looking for a new platform and that is Linux and that is great for us but if Microsoft changes its App Store rules (they already did with PEGI rating) I wonder what will happen then.

On another note, I mentioned this before, but what will happen to the Linux community when windows people will start using Linux because Steam brings out games for it, they will come into a totally different desktop experience and things not always run out of the box like they are used to, will the forums and the community be able to handle the comments/rants/expectations of all those new users ?

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It's all over UK TV right now for Windows Slate tablet and Windows 8.

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Quoting: "liamdawe, post: 5974, member: 1"Looks like Windows 8 will be quite the dive-bomb I have been hoping for but who knows will Microsoft do a U-Turn and open up again a bit more...i doubt it, they want more revenue and their own store is the way to really do it these days.

The thing about Windows 8 is that I have heard almost nothing about it during it's launch - virtually no news coverage or advertising. Compare that to the Windows 7 launch, or even more especially, the Windows Vista launch. Does not bode well for them.

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Bah forgot all about that, oh well either way they are coming so i'm happy

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Quoting: "NaKroTeK, post: 5971"from : http://icculus.org/resume

Tripwire Interactive, http://www.tripwireinteractive.com/
* Contracted to port Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41-45 to Linux and Mac OS X.
* Contracted to port Killing Floor to Linux and Mac OS X.

Hmmmm Mium !!

best regard.

Again:
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODI4NA

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I guess that's what a lot of his tweets are about recently then!

I hope they bring RO:2 to Linux as well.

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from : http://icculus.org/resume

Tripwire Interactive, http://www.tripwireinteractive.com/
* Contracted to port Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41-45 to Linux and Mac OS X.
* Contracted to port Killing Floor to Linux and Mac OS X.

Hmmmm Mium !!

best regard.

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