Latest Comments

Quoting: "whizse, post: 4531, member: 126"oak: I think it's important to note that the GPL is and was designed with _the user_ in mind, not the developer. Which is why some people seems to like to call it names and make it out to be a big and scary beast, it's really not though.

If people really valued the user, they would never have created the GPL and adopted the philosophy of whatever data gets onto your harddrive, you own it, so use it as you see fit. That is freedom, not forced contracts requiring you to share, etc. People aren't free or protected because the GPL says so.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

So, something I've been thinking about for a while, might as well ask what you all think:

If there was a Windows game that for some reason couldn't be ported for a bundle, and didn't work in Wine. Would you prefer it if the Humble guys paid someone to improve Wine (not just package up the game) so the game could run, or would you prefer it if they ditched the title and selected another game for a native port? (Keep in mind that improving Wine would be a contribution to open source and might improve Wine compatibility for other games as well.)

View this comment - View article - View full comments

[LEFT]This is very interesting concerning licences for tools and libraries and the open source vs proprietary software developers[/LEFT]
[LEFT] [/LEFT]
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-not-lgpl.html

I never got this gospel-like ideas of FOSS, like there's a war going on. LGPL or less restrictive style licenses seem more ideal to me and feel "free-er" as in "free to do whatever you want with it".

View this comment - View article - View full comments

oak: I think it's important to note that the GPL is and was designed with _the user_ in mind, not the developer. Which is why some people seems to like to call it names and make it out to be a big and scary beast, it's really not though.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

whoops, that post was by me(didn't realize I wasn't signed in).

View this comment - View article - View full comments

This sums it up for me:


Licenses reject freedom. Ideas and code are not property. To own ideas or any other form of thought is to control minds and the free flow of information. Code or any other idea is the opposite of land or tangible goods. To own land is reasonable because land is scarce; no two people can occupy the same exact space - it's physically impossible. In the world of computers, or the world of ideas, we can occupy the same place. There is no scarcity behind information or knowledge because we can create it infinitely. Copyright(often regarded erroneously as theft) is therefore also practically unenforceable.

So what would be a wonderful, realistic future market based on freedom? [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_buy']Group buying[/URL]. Group buying is the future, it's what propelled crowd-sourcing platforms like Kickstarter. If controlling your product(an idea or code) is practically impossible(or immoral too), the best we can do is to demand the money you need upfront and release it to the public. No legal battles ensue because if you have an idea you own it. If you have data you own it. Do what you want with it - safeguard it, share it, build on it, whatever!

In my view, the man who releases his ideas to the public sphere has given up any privacy or right to those ideas thereof.

Well, there you go. If you find my prattling useful or interesting you can check this out: http://freenation.org/a/f31l1.html

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Good article. Thanks for collecting all the issues/discussion in one place. And sorry for derailing your other thread! :oops:

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Technically I don't think neither Frozenbyte nor Introversion has released any games as FLOSS. The license for these is still non-commercial, and in the case of Introversion you can't even redistribute.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

I done my part :)

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: "Bumadar, post: 4458, member: 93"Its a bit sad that the HiB guys are looking at none native Linux games as an option, I do fully see where Hamish and his petition are coming from but to be honest I think we passed that junction already.

I think if you have real concerns, it would be worth emailing the Humble Bundle guys and explain them in an honest and rational manner.

QuoteAlso for the "normal" user if I may call them that, in the end what counts is the fact if it works and not how it works and more games on linux is a good thing in the end.

See, this is where it starts to get complicated. I like to hope that the Humble Bundle promotions lead to some level of continued interest in Linux support by developers who have been included and encourage other developers to consider it. It's great that the games included in the bundles are ported, but (hopefully) the real value lies beyond that.

If using wrappers like Wine is seen as an appropriate way to satiate the Linux market by developers, then I think that longer term, this would mean less developer attention for Linux and *less* Linux support (even for "normal" users). Obviously this isn't an issue for Limbo because CodeWeavers are looking after it and making sure it's maintained, but as I say, the bigger picture is stuff that's outside the Humble Bundle promotions.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/stainlessgames/carmageddon-reincarnation/ - not looking so good atm

i have high hopes into this project.
carmageddon was my childhood favourite(my parents didnt see what i was playing damn :))

View this comment - View article - View full comments

You people are sick, you know that? :p

View this comment - View article - View full comments

It would actually be kind of cool if the pedestrians started to fight against the racers, planting traps etc. like in [URL='http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072856/']Death Race 2000[/URL].

View this comment - View article - View full comments

So close!

View this comment - View article - View full comments

One thing I never understood but was okay with in Twisted Metal. If there's a freakin' car deathmatch going on in a carnival or such, evacuate!

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Limbo doesn't work for me although every native game they've released worked on this computer. I don't think developing a Windows clone for Linux is the way for portability. It's not so hard to make portable code that works. Instead of paying to build Windows clones pay good programmers to make games portable, support opensource portability tools and libs. Windows API is far from being the best for portability, neither would be any clone.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Its a bit sad that the HiB guys are looking at none native Linux games as an option, I do fully see where Hamish and his petition are coming from but to be honest I think we passed that junction already. On the other hand I am glad they see that AIR is not the way to go and at least the money for making the wine package goes to codeweavers which is a good thing as they are the engine behind wine for sure.

I would prefer native builds of course but I also have to admit that limbo right now runs better/more stable then for example Psychonauts which has been crashing with me a lot during the in game movie starts.

Also for the "normal" user if I may call them that, in the end what counts is the fact if it works and not how it works and more games on linux is a good thing in the end.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

I cant see the problem really they have made it so that it is playable for Linux users, probable more compatible than most "native" ports. If we had a sudden influx of titles that where done in this way, you would have more users willing to make the switch, with a bigger market base we would then be more likely to get our AAA titles with a "native" linux port. If it works its native in my eyes there is no problem here.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

I'm glad you guys got something out of it :D

On one hand, I find the consideration of wrappers to get non-native titles fitting the "cross platform" description a little worrying - once the flood gates are opened, I imagine that any leverage left with which to encourage native support from developers that the Humble Bundle guys have would be greatly diminished (speculation, of course).

On the other hand, I would be pretty excited to see stuff like Q.U.B.E. make it to Humble Bundle audiences.

If only sponsoring cross-platform ports of engines commonly used by indie developers (which no indie developer is going to have the resources to commission) fit under their plans to help fund games.

Also, I heard back from the Bronies about where they allocate their contributions :)


Edit: I have no idea if anybody cares about such things, but assuming that there's an even distribution of Windows payment values (which we know there isn't), I calculate Notch's impact on the Windows average to be +4c. A big fish in an enormously large ocean.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Actually, Hamish already created that.

If it makes you feel any better whizse, I was very much concerned about that as well. That is why I have worded everything the way I did, why I did a petition instead of just sending an angry email, and why I am doing this in the most organized fashion possible. I wanted someone with a clear head to handle some of this anger. I hope that you can trust me to have one...

But considering Linux users have been a large chunk of their purchase base since the beginning, I do not think this is unreasonable. Especially when you consider those people who emailed Jefferey Rosen asking for free copies for whatever reason, and he actually gave some to them during the first bundle.

This is about gathering data more than anything else, just to prove that enough people actually are upset, and not just a bunch of trolls. I do sincerely hope I am not confused for one, because it is certainly not my intention. I just care.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Thanks for the article Cheeseness. Your efforts are appreciated.

Though I am really concerned about that UDK comment... :confused:

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Tim Schafers description of a Linux "party" is just awesome :cool:

Oh, and thanks for the summary Cheeseness!

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Apologies to everyone for the length of this post. It was a big effort to try to sum up such an expansive and wide ranging discussion. In the end, I had plenty more I could have said, and a lot of unused quotes.

I promise I'll try to keep future stuff smaller :D

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Personally I'm sitting on the fence, regarding the Wine issue. Not sure if I'm going to sign the petition or not.

It did come up during the last AMA the bundle guys did, so they are very much aware of the controversy. I just worry that Linux users comes off as being demanding or pushy.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Cool! Coolcoolcool.

I pre-ordered this one ages ago, and was quite disappointed when it turned out that the Linux port was MIA.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quite interesting that Psychonauts in the bundle is an honest-to-god port, where as the previously released version for Mac was using using Cider (basically Wine for Mac):
https://twitter.com/icculus/status/208529394946412544

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Hamish already posted about that.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

"Linux Users Sign a Petition Requesting Only Native Games in Humble Bundles

[URL='https://www.humblebundle.com/'][COLOR=#0b61a4]Humble Indie Bundle 5[/URL] was launched recently with five popular and award winning indie games. All these games are supported natively on Linux except one, [URL='http://limbogame.org/']LIMBO[/URL].[/COLOR]

LIMBO doesn't run natively on Linux and instead uses a Wine/CodeWeavers wrapper. It has been a hot topic for debate in last couple of days and Humble Bundle organizers have [URL='http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/06/humble-team-and-game-developers-share.html'][COLOR=#0b61a4]commented on this[/URL].[/COLOR]
Now an [URL='http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/hib-native/'][COLOR=#0b61a4]online petition[/URL] has been launched for allowing only native Linux games in Humble bundles. This is not an attack on Humble team by any means, but an effort to make a statement that quality standards should be maintained for Linux platform.[/COLOR]

[LEFT]The Petition:[/LEFT]

Linux users have been supporting the Humble Indie Bundle from the beginning and a relation of mutual trust has grown between the people behind the Bundle and the Linux community. Unfortunately, I feel this trust has been violated by the inclusion of a non-native Linux game in the latest Bundle.
This is not merely a complaint about one game included in one Bundle, in this case Limbo. It sets a horrible precedent for the future, encouraging developers to merely put out unoptimized Windows binaries of their games running through a WINE or similar layer merely to con Linux users out of their money. We can not allow this to happen, not to the Humble Indie Bundle.
With all of this said, we do not want to boycott the Bundle as many of the developers involved are still very much deserving of our money, as are many of the charities, and even the Bundle guys themselves are still making an effort. But we can not let this go without at least getting our point across.
So we implore:
1. Linux users to sign this petition. Guarantee that the integrity of the Bundle remains and that you get a fair deal for your money.
2. Mac users to sign this petition. The threat of non-native binaries applies to you just as much as to Linux users.
3. Windows users to sign this petition. Ports often lead to optimizations and fixes, making your gaming experience better.
4. Other developers to sign this petition. After all of the effort some of you have put into your native porting, it is just as much a slap in the face to you.
Also remember that you have a choice as to how your money is distributed - if you feel you have not gotten a fair deal from Limbo, please make sure your money is divided as you feel is right.
This is not meant as an outright attack or a smear on the Bundle itself. It is a merely a reflection of our desire to see the high standards that the Bundles have previously adhered to continue. We are doing this because we care. Please accept this in the manner in which it is given.

Personally I believe that if a game runs well on Linux using Wine with proper optimizations and quality standards, there shouldn't be a problem. Wine is a fantastic platform to use Windows applications and games on Linux and there are many games that run better in Wine than Windows.

What do you think about this? Will LIMBO encourage other developers to release Windows binaries in Humble Bundles claiming that they run on Linux?"
http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/06/linux-users-sign-petition-requesting.html

View this comment - View article - View full comments

I've been pretty busy too - I'm happy to share the responsibility ^_^

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Yeah my bad been very busy.

View this comment - View article - View full comments