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Humble Bundle number 13!
By , 3 June 2012 at 7:00 pm UTC
"Linux Users Sign a Petition Requesting Only Native Games in Humble Bundles

[URL='https://www.humblebundle.com/'][COLOR=#0b61a4]Humble Indie Bundle 5[/URL] was launched recently with five popular and award winning indie games. All these games are supported natively on Linux except one, [URL='http://limbogame.org/']LIMBO[/URL].[/COLOR]

LIMBO doesn't run natively on Linux and instead uses a Wine/CodeWeavers wrapper. It has been a hot topic for debate in last couple of days and Humble Bundle organizers have [URL='http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/06/humble-team-and-game-developers-share.html'][COLOR=#0b61a4]commented on this[/URL].[/COLOR]
Now an [URL='http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/hib-native/'][COLOR=#0b61a4]online petition[/URL] has been launched for allowing only native Linux games in Humble bundles. This is not an attack on Humble team by any means, but an effort to make a statement that quality standards should be maintained for Linux platform.[/COLOR]

[LEFT]The Petition:[/LEFT]

Linux users have been supporting the Humble Indie Bundle from the beginning and a relation of mutual trust has grown between the people behind the Bundle and the Linux community. Unfortunately, I feel this trust has been violated by the inclusion of a non-native Linux game in the latest Bundle.
This is not merely a complaint about one game included in one Bundle, in this case Limbo. It sets a horrible precedent for the future, encouraging developers to merely put out unoptimized Windows binaries of their games running through a WINE or similar layer merely to con Linux users out of their money. We can not allow this to happen, not to the Humble Indie Bundle.
With all of this said, we do not want to boycott the Bundle as many of the developers involved are still very much deserving of our money, as are many of the charities, and even the Bundle guys themselves are still making an effort. But we can not let this go without at least getting our point across.
So we implore:
1. Linux users to sign this petition. Guarantee that the integrity of the Bundle remains and that you get a fair deal for your money.
2. Mac users to sign this petition. The threat of non-native binaries applies to you just as much as to Linux users.
3. Windows users to sign this petition. Ports often lead to optimizations and fixes, making your gaming experience better.
4. Other developers to sign this petition. After all of the effort some of you have put into your native porting, it is just as much a slap in the face to you.
Also remember that you have a choice as to how your money is distributed - if you feel you have not gotten a fair deal from Limbo, please make sure your money is divided as you feel is right.
This is not meant as an outright attack or a smear on the Bundle itself. It is a merely a reflection of our desire to see the high standards that the Bundles have previously adhered to continue. We are doing this because we care. Please accept this in the manner in which it is given.

Personally I believe that if a game runs well on Linux using Wine with proper optimizations and quality standards, there shouldn't be a problem. Wine is a fantastic platform to use Windows applications and games on Linux and there are many games that run better in Wine than Windows.

What do you think about this? Will LIMBO encourage other developers to release Windows binaries in Humble Bundles claiming that they run on Linux?"
http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/06/linux-users-sign-petition-requesting.html
Cheese talks to Frozenbyte
By Cheeseness, 3 June 2012 at 6:55 pm UTC
I've been pretty busy too - I'm happy to share the responsibility ^_^
Cheese talks to Frozenbyte
By Liam Dawe, 3 June 2012 at 6:15 pm UTC
Yeah my bad been very busy.
Cheese talks to Frozenbyte
By Cheeseness, 3 June 2012 at 5:10 pm UTC
I originally published the interview last month. We'd planned to post it here since before it was completed, but I didn't really catch up with Liam until yesterday >_<
Cheese talks to Frozenbyte
By Hamish, 3 June 2012 at 4:45 pm UTC
I believe I have already read this one before - but yes it is good to see Gameolith doing fairly well. And it is nice to hear the port seems to have done Frozenbyte well too. :)
Humble Bundle number 13!
By Hamish, 3 June 2012 at 4:37 pm UTC
Just because there is support offered for the binary does not change the point - the same thing applied to Cedega and Transgaming, or Cider on Mac which has a rather dubious history. Now, because it is Codeweavers it is better than Transgaming as Codeweavers are also not code thieves and actually do support the development of WINE, but it does not change the point that we would prefer native binaries and always got them before.

Other developers had to fulfill that requirement, and some put a lot of work into it. That is just unfair.

Also, Robert, keep in mind you can choose how your money is distributed - so you can still support the developers and charities you want to support. Just make sure you do not support Limbo (or if you a really concerned humble tip) in your price calculations

By the way, I just had an orange surge last night - jumping from 39 signatures to 113. We will see if it will do any good or not.
Humble Bundle number 13!
By , 3 June 2012 at 2:44 pm UTC
It is fair that what is perhaps one of the best bundles is overshadowed by the poor inclusion of Limbo. I understand wanting to defend this action simply because "Humble Bundle" have brought so much to Linux before. I gave Humble Bundle less money this time, and I am saying I would like this not to happen in future. In fact the Cross-Platform is the reason I buy the games.
Humble Bundle number 13!
By Cheeseness, 3 June 2012 at 1:59 pm UTC
Yep, because Google hired them to do so. It was CodeWeavers acting on Google's behalf, not something they did on their own. Similarly, when Google decided to discontinue Picasa, it was Google's decision and not CodeWeavers'.

If I hire a company to build a house for me and then decide to get it knocked down, that company doesn't have any responsibility for that decision.
Humble Bundle number 13!
By , 3 June 2012 at 1:11 pm UTC
"Other corporate sponsors include [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google']Google[/URL], which hired CodeWeavers to fix Wine so [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picasa']Picasa[/URL] ran well enough to be ported directly to Linux using the same binary as on Windows; Google later paid for improvements to Wine's support for [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Photoshop']Adobe Photoshop CS2[/URL]. Wine is also a regular beneficiary of Google's [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code']Summer of Code[/URL]program.[URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_(software)#cite_note-21'][COLOR=#0b0080][[/URL]"[/COLOR]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_(software)#cite_note-22

CodeWeavers ported [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picasa']Picasa[/URL] to Linux.
Humble Bundle number 13!
By Cheeseness, 3 June 2012 at 1:02 pm UTC
QuoteWe launched a [URL='http://www.winehq.org/']WINE[/URL]-based version of Picasa for Linux in 2006 as a Google Labs project. As we continue to enhance [URL='http://googlephotos.blogspot.com/2011/12/picasa-39-now-with-google-sharing-and.html']Picasa[/URL], it has become difficult to maintain parity on the Linux version. So today, we’re deprecating Picasa for Linux and will not be maintaining it moving forward. Users who have downloaded and installed older versions of Picasa for Linux can continue to use them, though we won’t be making any further updates.

http://googleblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/spring-cleaning-in-spring.html

It's not CodeWeavers discontinuing Picasa for Linux, it's Google.
Humble Bundle number 13!
By , 3 June 2012 at 12:37 pm UTC
Humble Bundle number 13!
By Cheeseness, 3 June 2012 at 8:24 am UTC
It wouldn't be a bad idea to make sure that concerns and problems also make their way to the Humble Bundle support system so that issues are visible to them as well IMO.
Humble Bundle number 13!
By Liam Dawe, 3 June 2012 at 7:50 am UTC
To add a little proper reasoning to this;

QuoteThe LIMBO Linux build was created by CodeWeavers who basically take a custom version of Wine and tune the game to make sure it runs flawlessly. This is our first experiment with CodeWeavers and we are watching carefully.
If there are any bugs with the game, I don't want people to think "oh well, it uses Wine" -- these ought to be sent to CodeWeavers who should do their best to fix them.


QuoteWe typically help organize porting for the games in the bundle, and it's usually the toughest part! But we're rabid about trying to provide the best experience possible, and native ports usually do that.
But in the case of LIMBO, our porting friends said there was some audio middleware that's not easily supported on Linux, we decided to see if we could experiment with another solution that could provide a rock-solid Linux gaming experience. CodeWeavers took it on—they do highly customized Linux wrappers to optimize specific pieces of software—and the prototypes worked incredibly well. They spent a lot of time tweaking and optimizing, and it passed their QA and our QA (and seemed to perform more consistently than even some of the native ports we've seen).
But we get that software is hard, and so we'll try to keep an eye out for any showstoppers. Hit up [email protected] with any issues and we'll make sure CodeWeavers hears about any LIMBO bugs that need fixing.


So if you any of you do get issues, email them, make your thoughts known there, the petition will do nothing as it always does IMO.
Humble Bundle number 13!
By Cheeseness, 3 June 2012 at 6:10 am UTC
Firstly, it's important to note that Limbo runs via CrossOver rather than normal Wine.

I spoke briefly with the Humble Bundle guys about this. They say that they're treating Codeweavers as they would any other porter, and are working with them to fix and resolve issues as they would with any of the other bundle titles.
Dirk Dashing 2 v0.9.1 is out!
By MyGameCompany, 3 June 2012 at 2:20 am UTC
I just scanned my copy of the Goodbye Galaxy hints and tricks sheet that I received and posted it on my blog:
http://www.mygamecompany.com/forums/showthread.php?2096-Commander-Keen-Mementos

Cool stuff!
Dirk Dashing 2 v0.9.1 is out!
By MyGameCompany, 3 June 2012 at 12:03 am UTC
That's a nice treasure trove!

I still have some of the original 3-1/2 floppy disks I got from Apogee when I ordered Commander Keen: Goodbye Galaxy from them in 1992, as well as the official hints and tricks sheet. It was printed in black ink on red colored paper, and had an ad for Keen 6 "Aliens Ate My Babysitter" on the back. They also sent a floppy with demos for Secret Agent 1 and Crystal Caves 1.

I immediately purchased Keen 6 through them too, and I've still got the floppy disk, the instruction book, and the hints and tricks sheet for that game (2 sheets, printed on green colored paper and stapled together). They also sent a floppy with a demo for Cosmo's Cosmic Adventure.

Those games were like gold... been addicted ever since!
Dirk Dashing 2 v0.9.1 is out!
By Hamish, 2 June 2012 at 11:37 pm UTC
You do not need to explain the allure to me Troy - I grew up playing Apogee games. Chips Challenge too, but anyway... ;)

My uncle had a disk full of Apogee game demos given to him after he gave us a fridge back in the day, so it is a kind of family interest in a way (though he is mostly a Civilization fanatic). Not quite the same as what was brought up here, but he taught us a few things about how to play Pagantizu, for instance.

I was more personally interested in the side scrollers like the original Duke Nukem games though. I may mostly be a FPS player but I still have time for a good side-scroller.
Dirk Dashing 2 v0.9.1 is out!
By MyGameCompany, 2 June 2012 at 10:17 pm UTC
I googled it, and I kinda remember it now - especially after it mentioned that it was part of the Microsoft Windows Entertainment Pack. I had that pack, but never played this particular game - I must have tried it at one point but didn't care for it.

I was more into games from Apogee, Sierra, and Interplay at the time. Those had better graphics, engaging stories/characters, and fun gameplay. That's where the inspiration comes for my games (at least the action-based ones). I also happen to love comic books (even drew a bunch of my own in high school and college), which is why my games have a cartoon/comic visual style and are very story-driven. I kinda carried my passion for drawing & reading comic books over into my game development when I started making games.
Humble Bundle number 13!
By Hamish, 2 June 2012 at 8:58 pm UTC
I am not against the WINE project - I was using WINE to play an older game right before I came here to post this. Now, I am personally against purchasing modern Windows games to play them on Linux, but that is a subject for another thread.

The main thing I am worried about is that this can soil the Bundle's future potential on Linux. It is quite clear from Ryan Gordon's comments that he has a large vested interest in the Bundle as he feels it is the steeping stone we need to get the Linux games industry to finally be fully recognized - an actually vibrant native community where we are not always treated like second class citizens. We have come a long way towards this in the past few years, and I want this growth to continue.

This is a threat to that - it destroys the incentive to build that bright future just for short-term convenience through the use of a hack. It is like the snake-oil sold by Transgaming all over again. A relevant quote from the time of Loki's closure:
QuoteThe arrival of TransGaming to me is the clearest indication that Loki failed to jump-start a Linux gaming industry as we'd hoped, because TransGaming has nothing to do with Linux games. Their message to game developers is: "Use DirectX and develop for Windows. We'll help you sell your Windows products to Linux users." TransGaming's strategy is the same one Corel used in its Linux applications business. In the end I don't think they'll be any more successful than Corel was.


http://web.archive.org/web/20020202221402/http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/01/24/2118235

Humble Bundle could be seen as the new Loki, what could jump start Linux game development. I do not want to soil that opportunity just because someone did not pay attention when selecting their middle-ware.
Auro on Kickstarter
By Rustybolts, 2 June 2012 at 8:44 pm UTC
I've seen this before, have covered this before? I think they did a kickstarter last year or 8bit funding or somat like that.
Humble Bundle number 13!
By Xpander, 2 June 2012 at 7:01 pm UTC
the bundle was (supposed) to be about?
i think it doesnt go against that.
if it works crossplatform (no matter if wine is used or not) then its "crossplatform".
wine is a good thing. it allows us to play the games that are never ported on our platform. it also runs some older games much better than u can run them in latest windows releases.
i do not own windows but i do buy windows games that work well in wine. Just the gamer inside me wants to do that.

ofc native ports are better. but i use all i can to enrich my gaming.

i personally have nothing agains winelib ports if they do work. and in my case, LIMBO works just perfectly with zero issues.
Humble Bundle number 13!
By Hamish, 2 June 2012 at 6:36 pm UTC
I am frankly suprised by how many people are defending this, when it goes against everything the Bundle was (supposed) to be about, at least on Linux.

It was never supposed to be about WINE. It was supposed to be the catalyst for a more stable native market. Just because we are to be humble does not mean we need to allow ourselves to be tred on.

EDIT: Just to try and add a little levity:
Quoting: Tim SchaferLinux was like a party that sounded fun [but] we were afraid to go to because we didn’t think we’d know anybody there, and the HiB guys were like your socially fearless friend who says, “Don’t worry, we’ll go together.”

When he gets to your house he says: “Is that what you’re wearing?” and you say, “uh…” and he says, “Don’t worry. I know a guy.” And he lends you a cool leather jacket and you go to the party and when you walk in there’s a needle scratch and everybody turns to look at you and your friend gives a cool nod and then everybody goes back to the party.

So kind of like a John Hughes film. Hope that helps explain things. That’s about as technical as I can go. I just hope I don’t accidentally knock over a beer can pyramid that some tough guys are building.

Oh and also, if you want to be cool at the party, stay away from wine. (haha! Linux joke!)


[URL='http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/06/humble-bundle-devs-talk-gaming-on-linux?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+d0od+%28OMG!+Ubuntu!%29']http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/06/humble-bundle-devs-talk-gaming-on-linux?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed: d0od (OMG! Ubuntu!)[/URL]
Dirk Dashing 2 v0.9.1 is out!
By Hamish, 2 June 2012 at 6:33 pm UTC
I definitly see the Secret Agent, Commander Keen, and other Appogee influences there.

For what it's worth, I do know and have fond memories of Chips Challenge Brandon. ;)
Humble Bundle number 13!
By Liam Dawe, 2 June 2012 at 4:52 pm UTC
Who knows maybe people will give more help towards Wine (maybe the humble guys should think about donating ;)).
Dirk Dashing 2 v0.9.1 is out!
By Brandon Smith, 2 June 2012 at 2:51 pm UTC
You've never heard of Chip's Challenge?! I mean, Bionic Commando I get, not many people know that game, but I thought everyone know's Chip's Challenge!

[sarcasm there], you should really know Bionic Commando!
Humble Bundle number 13!
By , 2 June 2012 at 10:11 am UTC
If it works it works!
Humble Bundle number 13!
By Cheeseness, 2 June 2012 at 6:53 am UTC
Quoting: "liamdawe, post: 4395, member: 1"The thing is though, if games that use it sell well, then hopefully you would think people in future would program with Linux in mind for a native version, after all this is a game that has been out for a while.

Tacking on wine support after is better than 0 support in my eyes, i don't have to mess with any configs still, it all installs for me just like it would natively.


The way I look at this particular issue is that if Linux users are buying products using Wine, then that erodes the potential customer base. From a publishing standpoint, if people on Linux have the ability to use Wine, then that's that market's needs met. If Wine can be seen as a legitimate option that consumers are happy with, then native support will be significantly harder to justify.
Dirk Dashing 2 v0.9.1 is out!
By MyGameCompany, 2 June 2012 at 5:41 am UTC
Hm, I've never heard of either of those games before. I'll have to google them.

My inspiration for the Dirk Dashing games was mainly Apogee's Secret Agent and id's Commander Keen (2 of my favorite platformer series of games), plus bits from Bio Menace, Crystal Caves, Duke Nukem (the old 2D platformers), Mega Man, etc and a few ideas of my own.
Humble Bundle number 13!
By Hamish, 1 June 2012 at 8:35 pm UTC
Quoting: "liamdawe, post: 4395, member: 1"The thing is though, if games that use it sell well, then hopefully you would think people in future would program with Linux in mind for a native version, after all this is a game that has been out for a while.


Another small point to add to this is that, when you consider it fully, we are not actually gaining anything from this but are in fact actually losing something we already had. Instead of just gaining pseudo-support from one developer (as this implies) we are actually potentially losing full support from the Humble Bundle for other titles in the future. It used to seem be native assured, but now this throws that into question.

So why should we let ourselves lose what we already had?
Humble Bundle number 13!
By Hamish, 1 June 2012 at 7:28 pm UTC
Quoting: "liamdawe, post: 4405, member: 1"As far as I know no petition for Linux gaming has ever done anything?


I honestly do not know what kind of effect this will have, but it is not like most Linux gaming petitions. It is directed at Humble Bundle, who do have a history of listening, even to a single individual.

I just figured it was better to get organized rather than have islands of unrest in a large humble sea.
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