Quoting: MaelraneSo any java game that runs on linux is not going to work then... *sighs* doesn't only hit java though.

(inb4 argument for/against java)

No jme-games on steam anymore :(

No. The game just needs to bundle any external dependencies. Many games bundle a local Java runtime on Windows and Mac (apparently). This should work on Linux as well. This is also perfectly legal as long as any relevant EULAs and licenses are properly displayed. Not ideal but that's third party runtimes for you. It's a hassle no matter the platform.

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Quoting: MaelraneYes, I have a solution (actually 2), it's (one of them) on page one of this thread/discussion. Add another icon. One for linux, one for SteamOS (console-like) and be done with it.

This does not solve the problem you described in your post. Although now you seem to have decided it wasn't a problem after all.

Quoting: MaelraneBut, ya, I do have another solution: Integrate with the Nix-package-manager!

Nix seems cool, but isn't a very practical solution. If would make sure everything works, but manages this by taking the "brute force" approach and simply keeping as many different versions of libraries on your system as needed. Not exactly static linking but not that far off. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Quoting: MaelraneI am not talking about them fixing my shit or supporting my decision to use a rolling-release-distribution.

I am well aware off all these "problems" (and they are no trade-off to me, they are an advantage in my book and one of the reasons I switched to Arch, after years of searching the perfect distribution for me)

Of course there are trade-offs. Just like using Linux has obvious trade-offs, especially for gamers, simply because it's not as widely supported as the "competition". I'm no stranger to source based distributions myself, having used Gentoo for years and Arch as well for a while, so please do not take this as Arch-bashing or anything like that.

Quoting: MaelraneI am talking about them removing icons, effectively hindering me buying games on/from their store because I now have to check elsewhere if the game actually runs on Linux.

Let alone the thing that may purchase may now be not counted as towards Linux, although I bought the game on Linux and played it on Linux.

These are problems, and they have been discussed in this thread, but not in that message of yours I addressed.

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Quoting: MaelraneThis is bullshit.

On Arch (or any other rolling release distro for that matter) I will still have to delete all steam-libs and use my own, because the rest of the system was updated and the libs are incompatible with, say, a new version of mesa.

Do you have a solution? You use a distro that by nature does not provide a stable, unchanging base for applications to rely on. There's no way any pre-built, closed source software can reliably target such a platform unless they statically include absolutely everything or some such madness. There's a reason Steam -- or pretty much any commercial software package for that matter -- does not officially support rolling release distributions. The rolling release model (and the source based build-it-yourself model of Arch, Gentoo and co.) does have its advantages, but this isn't one of them. There's always a trade-off.

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Quoting: ripper

Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: ripperThe question is how developers can verify that their games don't rely on external dependencies.

Wouldn't simply testing on a fresh install of SteamOS do the job?

No. SteamOS is just another Debian installation, it still has many system libraries installed. Many of those libraries might not be available on other distributions, at least not by default. Of course, yes, this would verify it works on SteamOS well, but just on SteamOS.

Thanks for stating the obvious. ;) I'm still not convinced this is such a big problem. Developers are very likely to know (or they can easily find out) the direct dependencies of their games, and it's trivial to check if these libraries are included in the Steam Runtime.

Quoting: ripperAccording to Valve reply, SteamOS compatibility is not enough, there has to be no dependency on the host system (which is a great message for us, they don't care just about SteamOS, they want the game run out of the box everywhere).

But I don't see Valve denying SteamOS listings for games that work out of the box on SteamOS and Ubuntu, or whatever Steam officially supports. Everywhere sounds nice, but -- given the nature of Linux -- a bit optimistic and impossible to guarantee or enforce.

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Quoting: GuestValve creating its own platform means reliance on that platform. This is about GNU/Linux and gaming - and there are problems in relying on steam's runtime. It means sticking to libraries they provide, library versions they provide, and doing only what they say. You're getting ridding of any freedoms you might have to control your own system - you might as well use Windows.

Not really. Commercial games depending on a "runtime" or rather a fixed set of libraries doesn't do much to limit your freedom. Everything outside of Steam still uses the libraries installed on your system.

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Quoting: GuestAn unfinished product, and an entirely non-functional one, are two separate things.

You're not wrong. Although it is understandable that Early Access builds do not receive as much in-house testing as a final build would. Of course it's perfectly fine to request a refund if the game doesn't work, EA or not.

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Quoting: GuestIs it still a wine wrapper?

The first words in the title of this article are "Native Linux Build", so no, it's not a wine wrapper. :)

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Quoting: GuestI generally disagree - early access doesn't mean you should get something that crashes. Early access is not a free pass to get money for a buggy mess.

You can disagree all you want, but in practice this is what you get, more often than not. The only exception is if the game is functionally complete and tested and the only thing missing is content, but even then you're paying for an unfinished product.

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Quoting: ripperThe question is how developers can verify that their games don't rely on external dependencies.

Wouldn't simply testing on a fresh install of SteamOS do the job?

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Quoting: Bloomberyit's crashed :(

Early Access still means you're playing a beta, or in some cases an alpha. If you want stability, it's safer to stick to games that are actually released.

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